Bullet out of chamber truths and Myths

[BC_bush_man]

Can anyone answer the following questions, I'm fairly new to guns,:

-What happens if you hold a bullet and light a lighter under it? How much realistic danger is it to do this?

-What happens if a box of ammo is thrown on a campfire? How much danger can this pose? Will it be dangerous for those sitting around the camp fire?

-What would happen if you held a 30-30 cartridge in your hand and struck the primer with something? Would you get hurt? (assuming of course, that you were able to set it off)

-I noticed some kid shot himself in another post by sticking a bullet in a vice and striking the primer. I thought the shell would burst first rather than firing the bullet. How come it ejected the bullet instead of bursting the casing if the bullet is the heaviest link in the chain?

-Does anyone have any un-chambered bullets going off stories?

-What is the likelyhood of a bullet getting fired from carrying it in your pocket full of change and keys for a day or two?

-Can a bullet realistically go off from being thrown or dropped on the floor and again what kind of damage can this cause?

-Can bullets be handled with "roughness" or should they be handled with extreme care? I've been somewhat carefull with them but wonder if I should be more gentle and careful in handling them.

-Can a box of ammo go off sitting in a scorching hot desert sun?

Now that I am the only gun nut in my social circle, people are asking me all kinds of strange questions that I have replied to with a dumb, drop-jawed look.

 

[Avenger29]

The only parts I can answer:

A bullet, or several, can be carried in a pocket without trouble. For several days. I usually have several .22 rounds mixed in my coat pockets along with a couple of .30-30 rounds. Plus change, keys, a couple of knives, and other crap...

You can drop them from a normal hieght onto a hard floor without problem.

Ammo will not be set off by heat from sun. Temperature must be much higher. Ammo can safely be kept in vehicles, although you might have problems with deterioting ammo such as plastic shotgun shells in loaded in the magazine.

I think that the rest are very unlikely, except for striking a primer. Don't do that.

 

[armedpolak]

I'll try...

-What happens if you hold a bullet and light a lighter under it? How much realistic danger is it to do this?

It will explode and most likely hurt you... still have scars on my fingers from trying this when I was 13 and the bullet was .22LR. The casing exploded, and after I explainded to my Mom that I fell on a peace of glass, I took the bandages off and picked the peaces of brass from inside my skin... lots of tiny cuts.

-What happens if a box of ammo is thrown on a campfire? How much danger can this pose? Will it be dangerous for those sitting around the camp fire?

AKA previous answer.

-What would happen if you held a 30-30 cartridge in your hand and struck the primer with something? Would you get hurt? (assuming of course, that you were able to set it off)

If you wrap your fingers around the casting, you loose them! Think firecracker. The casting isn't strong enough to withstand the preasure. It rips to shreads if not held buy the chamber.

-I noticed some kid shot himself in another post by sticking a bullet in a vice and striking the primer. I thought the shell would burst first rather than firing the bullet. How come it ejected the bullet instead of bursting the casing if the bullet is the heaviest link in the chain?

NO IDEA.

-Does anyone have any un-chambered bullets going off stories?

YES

-What is the likelyhood of a bullet getting fired from carrying it in your pocket full of change and keys for a day or two?

My guess, highly unlikely.

-Can a bullet realistically go off from being thrown or dropped on the floor and again what kind of damage can this cause?

Yes, I imagine it can. If a sharp edge/bump hits the primer just right... think firing pin.

-Can bullets be handled with "roughness" or should they be handled with extreme care? I've been somewhat carefull with them but wonder if I should be more gentle and careful in handling them.

I dropped a few. I put boxes of ammo in my car. They took few sharp turns, bumped all over one another. No discharges yet.

-Can a box of ammo go off sitting in a scorching hot desert sun?

I seriously doubt it.

Now that I am the only gun nut in my social circle, people are asking me all kinds of strange questions that I have replied to with a dumb, drop-jawed look.

Join the club.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Say cartridge and read Hatcher's Notebook.

Say cartridge and read Hatcher's Notebook.

Notice at least one person has been killed by the case with the bullet going nowhere - in very unusual circumstances.

 

[Geronimo45]

-What happens if you hold a bullet and light a lighter under it? How much realistic danger is it to do this?

It can cook off at a high enough temperature. Several hundred degrees for that to happen, though.

-What happens if a box of ammo is thrown on a campfire? How much danger can this pose? Will it be dangerous for those sitting around the camp fire?

A lot of popping. A steel case of ammo, now, is another matter. You might have a little steel shrapnel from ammo going off in there.

-What would happen if you held a 30-30 cartridge in your hand and struck the primer with something? Would you get hurt? (assuming of course, that you were able to set it off)

A nice set of burns, same as a firework - probably a little worse.

-I noticed some kid shot himself in another post by sticking a bullet in a vice and striking the primer. I thought the shell would burst first rather than firing the bullet. How come it ejected the bullet instead of bursting the casing if the bullet is the heaviest link in the chain?

I suppose the walls of the vice supported the brass enough to launch the bullet at some velocity - probably less than normal. The fact that he's alive supports that idea a little.

-Does anyone have any un-chambered bullets going off stories?

Not me.

-What is the likelyhood of a bullet getting fired from carrying it in your pocket full of change and keys for a day or two?

Pretty low. If you do parachute jumps and land on your side with keys+ammo, you might set a round off. .22 LR may be easier to set off, though, since it's rimfire...

-Can a bullet realistically go off from being thrown or dropped on the floor and again what kind of damage can this cause?

Better chance of it going off with a rimfire, I'd say, since the whole base of the cartridge is the primer. Not much chance of it going off, though - with centerfire (most ammo) or rimfire (.22 LR, .22 magnum). If it does go off, it won't be too dangerous.

-Can bullets be handled with "roughness" or should they be handled with extreme care? I've been somewhat carefull with them but wonder if I should be more gentle and careful in handling them.

Rough handling of a round may dent the brass or the rim - which can affect feeding in your gun. Show care with 'em. They're not full of nitroglycerin, but they're not just a hunk of steel, either.

-Can a box of ammo go off sitting in a scorching hot desert sun?

On the planet Mercury, probably. On earth, I highly doubt it. The cook-off temperatures are pretty high... I read that they were 400 degrees or higher.

 

[Jim Watson]

-What happens if you hold a bullet and light a lighter under it? How much realistic danger is it to do this?

*Not a thing. A bullet is a projectile, not a cartridge, which seems not to be as important with the Internet Experts as the difference between a clip and a magazine.
*You can set off a cartridge with heat, the primer will be blown out with some force and there will likely be some bits of brass thrown around.

-What happens if a box of ammo is thrown on a campfire? How much danger can this pose? Will it be dangerous for those sitting around the camp fire?

*See above. If as in the westerns with black powder ammunition, there might be enough fragmentation to be some hazard.

-What would happen if you held a 30-30 cartridge in your hand and struck the primer with something? Would you get hurt? (assuming of course, that you were able to set it off)

*See above. Every once in a while somebody will unload an autopistol, the live round's primer will get lined up with the ejector, and it will fire inside the slide but out of the chamber. If the shooter has his hand over the ejection port so as to not have to bend over to pick up the cartridge, he gets hurt. It results in a palm full of brass fragments. Seen it happen.

-I noticed some kid shot himself in another post by sticking a bullet in a vice and striking the primer. I thought the shell would burst first rather than firing the bullet. How come it ejected the bullet instead of bursting the casing if the bullet is the heaviest link in the chain?

*I conclude that the vice jaws offered enough support to the case to let pressure build and launch the bullet. If the little stinker was telling the truth.

-Does anyone have any un-chambered bullets going off stories?

*See above.

-What is the likelyhood of a bullet getting fired from carrying it in your pocket full of change and keys for a day or two?

*None. But don't drop a battery in your pocket, it can short across your pocket contents and get hot in a hurry.

-Can a bullet realistically go off from being thrown or dropped on the floor and again what kind of damage can this cause?

*I know of one (1.0) reliably reported case in which an IPSC competitor knew not to hold his hand over the ejection port (see above) so the live round ejected and landed primer down on a rock. It went off with some alarm but no injury.

-Can bullets be handled with "roughness" or should they be handled with extreme care? I've been somewhat carefull with them but wonder if I should be more gentle and careful in handling them.

*I don't know how roughly you handle ammunition or why you would need to. But there is not much risk.

-Can a box of ammo go off sitting in a scorching hot desert sun?

*No. It is possible for a cartridge left in the chamber of a machine gun after a long burst to "cook off" but that is an extreme case.

 

[Tommygunn]

-Does anyone have any un-chambered bullets going off stories?

One of my cousins, when he was a kid, took a box of .22RF and placed them individually on a concrete floor, and proceeded to strike the rims with a hammer. This set off the rounds quite successfully -- until one of the bullets entered his leg near his hip. The bullet is still there to this day, about 45-50 years later as the doctor who treated him thought it was safet to leave the bullet there, rather than to remove it.
It's not a good idea to fool around with bullets.

-I noticed some kid shot himself in another post by sticking a bullet in a vice and striking the primer. I thought the shell would burst first rather than firing the bullet. How come it ejected the bullet instead of bursting the casing if the bullet is the heaviest link in the chain?

Apparantly the seal between the case and the bullet was the "weakest link."
This seems to make ense to me as the case and the bullet are in fact different entities.

-What happens if a box of ammo is thrown on a campfire? How much danger can this pose? Will it be dangerous for those sitting around the camp fire?

Firemen who have responded to fires where ammo is present report that the bullets "POP" out somewhat like corks from champagne bottles. They don't go fast enough to cause damage (unless I guess they hit an eyeball) because they're not confined inside a breech where the pressure can really spike up to tens of thousands of pounds per square inch.

I have never heard of bullets going off from rattling around in a pocket or something like that.
I don't think it would be a good idea to tempt fate by testing any of these concerns first hand. My cousin's experience with the .22 sorta taught me indirectly a lesson about screwing around with ammunition in ways not intended by the manufacturer ... if you know what I mean...

 

[RCR29]

[See above. Every once in a while somebody will unload an autopistol, the live round's primer will get lined up with the ejector, and it will fire inside the slide but out of the chamber. If the shooter has his hand over the ejection port so as to not have to bend over to pick up the cartridge, he gets hurt. It results in a palm full of brass fragments. Seen it happen.
/QUOTE]
I have seen this happen too, at a USPSA match. Guy covered the ejection port on a 1911 w/ his hand to catch the round, and it hit the ejector and went off. He got a handfull of brass and a couple of pieces in his face.

 

[rhubarb]

Seems I read somewhere on the Internets about a fellow that heated a round with a bunsen burner with a chronograph set up to record the results. As I remember, the case moved faster than the bullet. Something like a couple hundred fps. Anyone have a link?

 

[Sisco]

-Can a bullet realistically go off from being thrown or dropped on the floor and again what kind of damage can this cause?

I once cut open a 12 GA shotshell and dumped the powder and pellets then dropped it out second floor window onto concrete. Did it several times but nothing happened until I taped a piece of gravel to the primer.

 

[moxie]

There are many variable at work in each scenario

here that make it difficult to say what will or won't happen, only that a range of events is possible, most of them with serious consequences. As a trained munitions officer, I learned never to treat explosives and related items, including ammunition, carelessly. Just as you treat ever gun as if loaded, treat ammunition as hazardous and handle it carefully and with respect.

 

[Snarlingiron]

Two anecdotes:

I once noticed that my uncle had a large scar on his right shoulder. I asked him how he got it. He replied that when he was a child he tried to hammer a .22 round into the ground. It detonated, and the brass "shot" him in the shoulder.

My brother at the age of about 13 was hanging around my family's jewelry business. This was a manufacturing jewelry operation, so there were half a dozen or so workbenches, each with an oxy-acetelyn torch set up. There was a huge bang at the bench where my brother was fiddling around, and there was a large hole in the back door's window. Seems he had clamped an 8mm Mauser round in the vice, and proceded to apply the torch flame to the primer area. Very Very lucky that no one was hurt.

Bottom line...they can be carried around and subjected to more abuse than you might imagine, but they can go bang unchambered. High temperature is not a good idea.

 

[.38 Special]

Seems I read somewhere on the Internets about a fellow that heated a round with a bunsen burner with a chronograph set up to record the results. As I remember, the case moved faster than the bullet. Something like a couple hundred fps. Anyone have a link?

Not familiar with that one, but I seem to recall American Rifleman doing a piece a few years ago where they cooked off various rounds in an electric lead pot with a piece of cardboard over the top. The cardboard was occasionally dented but never penetrated. Perhaps 100 fps?

 

[Scoupe]

Always handle ammunition with repsect.

I have two short anecdotes. I know, or knew both parties involved.

#1. "Darryl" - 13 year old kid. Pointed his BB gun straight up in the air, put a live .22 cartridge over the muzzle, pulled the trigger and came back to school that fall with a brand new glass eye and a cool little vile containing the brass shards they took out of his eye socket.

#2. "Mike" - 40 something year old bulls-eye shooter. Smoked a pipe. Stuck lit pipe in baggy front shorts pocket as he prepared for his next event. Noticed loose cartridge as he approached his station and put in front shorts pocket as well. Round apparently slid far enough in bowl to cook off. Ruined a very nice briar pipe, a pair of shorts, and definitely left a mark. The pipe was retained for mounting in a shadow box in his office as a reminder to...

Always handle ammunition with respect.

 

[Avenger]

Per "Mythbusters", .22LRs make lousy fuses.

A friend of mine does his reloading in his garage. He spilled a couple of shotgun primers, and a few ended up under his car, and he didn't notice. Next time he backed out, the tire went over them. Pretty loud bang, no damage to anything, just a scorch mark on the concrete.

When I was in Scouts, somebody tossed a rifle round into the fire one night. It popped a few minutes later, and a chunk of burning wood flew out of the fire, with about the bottom 2/3 of the brass stuck in it like an arrow. We all thought that was pretty neat.

 

[230RN]

HATCHER'S BIBLE ERRR... I MEAN NOTEBOOK

ClarkEMyers:

(I)

Say cartridge and read Hatcher's Notebook.

Notice at least one person has been killed by the case with the bullet going nowhere - in very unusual circumstances.

I don't recall reading that in Hatcher. What I do remember is an old lady got hit in the chest and died from a fragment of a detonator which was left in a shovel of coal she threw into her coal-fired furnace.

Can you give me a page number?

(II)
BC_bush_man:

I would hie myself down to the library (or order from the NRA) a copy of Hatcher's Notebook, which delves into all kinds of firearms questions. He has an entire chapter on Powder Fires and Explosions amd answers a myriad of questions on "what happens if" which are verified by actual experiment. Most interesting in your case would be the section on "Newspaper accounts often misleading,"

I reprint here my comments, posted on another forum, on this subject:

OK, I went and dug out my Hatcher's Notebook from storage and looked it up. (NOTE: This answer was in respect to a question very similar to yours on another forum -230RN)

It appears in his chapter on "Explosions and Powder Fires" on page 531, in the section headed "Small Arms Ammunition As A Fire Or Explosion Hazard."

The upshot is that it isn't very dangerous, except for th danger from the flying brass particles.

Gen. Hatcher relates some amusing stories regarding this subject. One of which was where a pair of small boys claimed that one of of them had been hit with a bullet while burning some leaves. This was fine until it was pointed out that the bullet had rifling marks on it. The kids, obviously, were playing with a gun they shouldn't have.

This book is really interesting in that so many questions about firearms and related subjects have been dealt with in the book, yet they are still being asked --even here on packing.org.

And in the past several years I have seen several articles in the major firearms journals which were actually based (in some cases word-for-word) on General Hatcher's work as it appeared in "Hatcher's Notebook."

I have no stake in its publication, but I would recomment it to anyone with an interest in firearms. One can pick it up and open to almost any page and start reading. (Great for the bathroom!)

Hatcher deals with many fascinating firearms questions, including barrel obstructions, bullets from the sky, what happens if you shoot at a can of powder or put a whole can in a fire, shoot into a case of ammunition, etc.

I strongly recommend it.

(III)

The only question that remained in my mind after reading this chapter is with respect to the variable of steel-cased ammunition, since Hatcher only dealt with brass casings and shotgun shells.

Can anyone provide a knowledgable update with respect to steel-cased ammunition?

 

[carterbeauford]

What happens if you hold a bullet and light a lighter under it?

it melts

 

[Fosbery]

If you hold a cartridge and put a lighter under it the brass will heat up and burn your fingers making you drop it

 

[SDC]

I'll just add a "+1" to everything said above, and add an experiment that was performed by AFTE 2 years ago; during qualifications at a California department some time ago, they were practicing malfunction drills with their loaded service pistols, and someone on the line had some excitement when an ejected round managed to land base-first (primer-first) on the crushed gravel surface they were standing on. The round fired, but the bullet didn't achieve enough velocity to harm anyone. It took them a long, long, LONG time to replicate the incident during testing, but it still comes down to the fact that these things have a surprising amount of power contained in them, and it's not a good idea to mistreat them by throwing them around or heating them up.

 

[Outlaws]

-I noticed some kid shot himself in another post by sticking a bullet in a vice and striking the primer. I thought the shell would burst first rather than firing the bullet. How come it ejected the bullet instead of bursting the casing if the bullet is the heaviest link in the chain?

The path of least resistance is to shove the bullet out in that general direction. Its not held in that tight so it provides little resistance to escaping gas.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Outside-the-chamber detonation

BC Bushman--New to firearms?? Welcome aboard--we all have things to learn from each other!

BTW, as has been pointed out, the bullet is the lead/copper thingie on the front end of the CARTRIDGE--Yr questions are about cartridges. Enough on the English lesson.

Many years ago the American Rifleman reported a detonation of a shotshell. I was just a teenager; can't cite a reference. But IIRC, a whole box of shotshells was dropped onto the floor of a sporting goods store, where it ripped open, spilling the cartridges all over the floor. Almost all the cartridges were recovered w/o incident, but 2 couldn't be found. Later that day there was a "SHOOF!!", and on investigation the 2 missing cartridges were found near each other, one of them whole, one of them detonated, ruptured on the side, and dribbling pellets. The theory for the cause of this was that one of the cartridges had been inadvertently kicked along the floor, and struck the primer of the discharged cartridge with its rim, hard enough to detonate the primer. The article concluded by stating that while there was no harm done (except the loss of one shotgun cartridge), and while the liklihood of its ever happening again must be infinitesimal, still the incident is an illustration of the need to always be cautious with, and respectful of, live ammunition.

Myself, I've lived long enough to do a lot of stupid, dangerous things, but I have NEVER messed with heat and/or percussion combined with loose live ammunition. Have no plans to change that policy any time soon.

 

[GEM]

What happens if you run a couple of rounds of Winchester FMJ through the washer and then the dryer?







Your wife yells at you - like

 

[SkunkApe]

What happens if you run a couple of rounds of Winchester FMJ through the washer and then the dryer?

Your wife yells at you - like

Heh. I've run shotgun shells and .22 rimfire through the washer and dryer lots of times. Nothing happened, except my ammo got clean. I'm single, though. I usually figure it out (especially with the shotgun shells) when I hear the clumpa-clumpa-clumpa noise.

One time, however, a cheapy cigarette lighter exploded in my dryer. I heard a loud "bang" and looked in the dryer to find plastic shards and other pieces from the lighter mixed in with my clothes.

I guess I should be more careful.

 

[Lupinus]

-What happens if you hold a bullet and light a lighter under it? How much realistic danger is it to do this?

Technicly speaking you get a handful of molton lead, this is generaly considered to be bad juju. However, if you are refering to a round then likewise you get a hot piece of brass making you drop it, if you happen to drop it onto a pebble you may end up shooting yourself with it. Cooking it off with a lighter before dropping it is possible, but you will probably drop it first. Takes everal hundred degrees to set off powder, esspecialy smokeless powder.

-What happens if a box of ammo is thrown on a campfire? How much danger can this pose? Will it be dangerous for those sitting around the camp fire?

Lots of popping and quite likely shrapnel and embers thrown out of the fire.

-What would happen if you held a 30-30 cartridge in your hand and struck the primer with something? Would you get hurt? (assuming of course, that you were able to set it off)

I don't know. Do oyu consider loosing some fingers or the entire hand to "hurt"?

-I noticed some kid shot himself in another post by sticking a bullet in a vice and striking the primer. I thought the shell would burst first rather than firing the bullet. How come it ejected the bullet instead of bursting the casing if the bullet is the heaviest link in the chain?

What probably happened is as has already been said. The jaws of hte vise probably offered enough suport to not rupture the case and sent the bullet off on its way.

-Does anyone have any un-chambered bullets going off stories?

Not to me

-What is the likelyhood of a bullet getting fired from carrying it in your pocket full of change and keys for a day or two?

I'd say possible, yet highly unlikely. About the same probability as Anna Kournikova showing up on my doorstep tomorrow and offering herself to me.

-Can a bullet realistically go off from being thrown or dropped on the floor and again what kind of damage can this cause?

Possible yet not likely. Much more likely however then the above.

-Can bullets be handled with "roughness" or should they be handled with extreme care? I've been somewhat carefull with them but wonder if I should be more gentle and careful in handling them.

We aren't talking extremely unstable stuff here. So I'd say carefully but you don't have to baby them.

-Can a box of ammo go off sitting in a scorching hot desert sun?

Maybe if you positioned the primer just right under a magnifying glass ala death to the ants.

 

[Flopsy]

"-I noticed some kid shot himself in another post by sticking a bullet in a vice and striking the primer. I thought the shell would burst first rather than firing the bullet. How come it ejected the bullet instead of bursting the casing if the bullet is the heaviest link in the chain?"

I saw this exact scene in a movie. I forget the name of the movie, but it makes me question whether this actually happened in reality.