Burris XTR III 3-18x50 SCR Mil on sale CameralandNY
- Thread starter Walkalong
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nettlle
Contributing Member
I paid almost that much for a scope recently. After I using it for a while it is worth every penny. You get what you pay for. And it is a very nice looking piece of optical equipment.
LiveLife
Member
Looking forward to your review!I broke down and ordered one, you guys are killing me........oh wait, I posted that. I'm killing me.
nettlle
Contributing Member
What mounting set up are you going to use?
The MDT Premier rings came today as well. Trying something new. Their AICS style mags work great.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
Doug from camera land is a good guy. One scope i ordered from him. The last one he had in stock was a display model. He called and asked if i would accept it.
dranrab
Member
I ordered one of those and was disappointed. The center of the reticle is impossible to see below 6X. From 6-8X it needs a perfectly contrasting background. On a cloudy day out, and a few minutes before sunset the reticle was disappearing on darker backgrounds even at 10X. The eye box is fussy. The glass is no clearer or sharper than the glass on the Burris Droptine that I bought from Doug. I don't know if it's my bad luck, and I got a bad specemin or if it's simply not a good scope.
Burris' tech rep had this to say about my experience.
"-Power rings on new scopes are routinely stiff, and tend to smoothen out with use as the grease initially installed on the guide tube migrates around- heat tends to help with this as well.
-The small size of the reticle features is unavoidable, no matter who makes the scope. FFP placement means that those lines are going to magnify at the same rate as the image, meaning that if the lines were thicker, they would cover up more of the target at high magnification. This is an accepted fact of scopes with reticles in the first/front focal plane.
-A non-illuminated reticle in low light is not typically visible against dark targets- this is where illuminated reticles are of massive benefit, and why hunters especially tend to prefer illumination. As a competition/ long-range target scope, these original XTR III's favored a non-illuminated reticle for weight reduction and reduced width at the turrets.
-The XTR III’s eye box is one of the most forgiving in its class, adjusting the locking diopter and/or the scope’s position on the rifle may improve the experience.
-Comparing optical performance to a Droptine at sundown with cloud cover (poor conditions) is a bit odd, the Droptine is a hunting scope that emphasizes brightness in low light, while the XTR III was never built as a low-light hunting scope, and therefore does not emphasize low-light optical performance as much as resolution, light management in bright conditions, and a wide FOV."
This was my response to his comments.
"Power rings on new scopes are routinely stiff, and tend to smoothen out with use as the grease initially installed on the guide tube migrates around- heat tends to help with this as well."
He had no way of knowing if this was my first scope or my 100th. It's closer to the latter. I have several more Burris scopes and have owned several more yet. NONE have a power ring this stiff. I exercised it back and forth well over 50 times, before I made the comment. I have since exercised it more. How much more do I need to do this before the grease is distributed? With the scope mounted on a rifle and me prone or at a bench it is too stiff to manipulate with two fingers. I do not have a throw lever installed. It's nice to be able to make power adjustments to a scope from shooting positions without wrestling with it. But the Burris rep accepts this as normal.
-The small size of the reticle features is unavoidable, no matter who makes the scope. FFP placement means that those lines are going to magnify at the same rate as the image, meaning that if the lines were thicker, they would cover up more of the target at high magnification. This is an accepted fact of scopes with reticles in the first/front focal plane.
The rep assumes I don't know how FFP scopes work. The scope is a 3-18. The center of the reticle is useless below about 6X with my eyes. Other users say that number is closer to 8X. Regardless, why even bother with making a scope that can't be used in the lower 25% of its magnification range. Maybe there's a reason.
-A non-illuminated reticle in low light is not typically visible against dark targets-
That's just wrong. Perhaps this reticle on their FFP scope is not, but that is not the case with the other scopes I have. In fact, most of them wouldn't give up usefulness several minutes before sunset on a cloudy day, they'd take me almost all the way to last legal shooting light. But it's nice to know that they acknowledge and accept that as normal for this scope.
-The XTR III’s eye box is one of the most forgiving in its class, adjusting the locking diopter and/or the scope’s position on the rifle may improve the experience.
Another user error assumption.
-Comparing optical performance to a Droptine at sundown with cloud cover (poor conditions) is a bit odd, the Droptine is a hunting scope that emphasizes brightness in low light, while the XTR III was never built as a low-light hunting scope, and therefore does not emphasize low-light optical performance as much as resolution, light management in bright conditions, and a wide FOV.
I discussed this in my previous post. What is odd from a consumer's perspective is that they readily admit that their Flagship XTR model with a 50mm objective shouldn't be expected to "manage" light as well as their entry level 42mm scope that cost 1/8th as much. Their flagship is made for bright conditions. That doesn't sound very "extreme" or "tactical" to me.
I bought the scope as a target scope with hopes that I might be able to press it into occasional hunting service. It'll do that in ideal conditions.
I bought a $1000 scope in hopes that the "glass" would be better than the "glass" on scopes that cost $150. It is not. I'll allow that I may have to piddle with it more to find a sweet spot if in fact it has one.
I bought a 3-18 hoping that I could use it all the way down to 3. While I didn't anticipate doing that often, it would have been nice to have been able to use the full range of the scope. I can't, I'll live with it.
I certainly didn't expect the magnification ring to be so stiff, that I couldn't stay mounted and use the ring at the same time. This is apparently normal and is expected to self correct with an unspecified number of turns until the grease is evenly distributed. You'd think that a manufacturer could find a way to distribute grease on a scope that has an MSRP of over $1500. Oh, I haven't tried heat yet. I don't know if the rep expects me to apply artificial heat or if it takes ambient heat of over 70 degrees to get it to free up.
Burris' tech rep had this to say about my experience.
"-Power rings on new scopes are routinely stiff, and tend to smoothen out with use as the grease initially installed on the guide tube migrates around- heat tends to help with this as well.
-The small size of the reticle features is unavoidable, no matter who makes the scope. FFP placement means that those lines are going to magnify at the same rate as the image, meaning that if the lines were thicker, they would cover up more of the target at high magnification. This is an accepted fact of scopes with reticles in the first/front focal plane.
-A non-illuminated reticle in low light is not typically visible against dark targets- this is where illuminated reticles are of massive benefit, and why hunters especially tend to prefer illumination. As a competition/ long-range target scope, these original XTR III's favored a non-illuminated reticle for weight reduction and reduced width at the turrets.
-The XTR III’s eye box is one of the most forgiving in its class, adjusting the locking diopter and/or the scope’s position on the rifle may improve the experience.
-Comparing optical performance to a Droptine at sundown with cloud cover (poor conditions) is a bit odd, the Droptine is a hunting scope that emphasizes brightness in low light, while the XTR III was never built as a low-light hunting scope, and therefore does not emphasize low-light optical performance as much as resolution, light management in bright conditions, and a wide FOV."
This was my response to his comments.
"Power rings on new scopes are routinely stiff, and tend to smoothen out with use as the grease initially installed on the guide tube migrates around- heat tends to help with this as well."
He had no way of knowing if this was my first scope or my 100th. It's closer to the latter. I have several more Burris scopes and have owned several more yet. NONE have a power ring this stiff. I exercised it back and forth well over 50 times, before I made the comment. I have since exercised it more. How much more do I need to do this before the grease is distributed? With the scope mounted on a rifle and me prone or at a bench it is too stiff to manipulate with two fingers. I do not have a throw lever installed. It's nice to be able to make power adjustments to a scope from shooting positions without wrestling with it. But the Burris rep accepts this as normal.
-The small size of the reticle features is unavoidable, no matter who makes the scope. FFP placement means that those lines are going to magnify at the same rate as the image, meaning that if the lines were thicker, they would cover up more of the target at high magnification. This is an accepted fact of scopes with reticles in the first/front focal plane.
The rep assumes I don't know how FFP scopes work. The scope is a 3-18. The center of the reticle is useless below about 6X with my eyes. Other users say that number is closer to 8X. Regardless, why even bother with making a scope that can't be used in the lower 25% of its magnification range. Maybe there's a reason.
-A non-illuminated reticle in low light is not typically visible against dark targets-
That's just wrong. Perhaps this reticle on their FFP scope is not, but that is not the case with the other scopes I have. In fact, most of them wouldn't give up usefulness several minutes before sunset on a cloudy day, they'd take me almost all the way to last legal shooting light. But it's nice to know that they acknowledge and accept that as normal for this scope.
-The XTR III’s eye box is one of the most forgiving in its class, adjusting the locking diopter and/or the scope’s position on the rifle may improve the experience.
Another user error assumption.
-Comparing optical performance to a Droptine at sundown with cloud cover (poor conditions) is a bit odd, the Droptine is a hunting scope that emphasizes brightness in low light, while the XTR III was never built as a low-light hunting scope, and therefore does not emphasize low-light optical performance as much as resolution, light management in bright conditions, and a wide FOV.
I discussed this in my previous post. What is odd from a consumer's perspective is that they readily admit that their Flagship XTR model with a 50mm objective shouldn't be expected to "manage" light as well as their entry level 42mm scope that cost 1/8th as much. Their flagship is made for bright conditions. That doesn't sound very "extreme" or "tactical" to me.
I bought the scope as a target scope with hopes that I might be able to press it into occasional hunting service. It'll do that in ideal conditions.
I bought a $1000 scope in hopes that the "glass" would be better than the "glass" on scopes that cost $150. It is not. I'll allow that I may have to piddle with it more to find a sweet spot if in fact it has one.
I bought a 3-18 hoping that I could use it all the way down to 3. While I didn't anticipate doing that often, it would have been nice to have been able to use the full range of the scope. I can't, I'll live with it.
I certainly didn't expect the magnification ring to be so stiff, that I couldn't stay mounted and use the ring at the same time. This is apparently normal and is expected to self correct with an unspecified number of turns until the grease is evenly distributed. You'd think that a manufacturer could find a way to distribute grease on a scope that has an MSRP of over $1500. Oh, I haven't tried heat yet. I don't know if the rep expects me to apply artificial heat or if it takes ambient heat of over 70 degrees to get it to free up.
Sorry to hear your not happy with the scope! Your experiences mimic my general experience with FFP wide range variables. My 2-15 Athlons were mostly useable at about 1/2 power or lower, my riton is about that good also. My Arken is the only one ive got that works fine at minium power (at least for me), and I dont have enough experience with the BH Genisis to say.....All of mine have IRs tho so simply switching on the light is a functional option for dark conditions on lower power.
I have not yet mounted the scope, but it's easy to tell that the glass is very good, and clear to the edge, I daresay much better than Droptine glass.
Yes, reticles on FFP tend to be very thin at low power, and this one is no different. Most people buying FFP scopes aren't using the lower power setting. I can't remember going under 6X in a match, and starting at 8Xor 10X is more common.
That said, Burris beefed up the reticle outside the parts that have Mil hashes. It makes it where you can easily see the "center" of the reticle fairly easily at 3.3X is you really needed it. Here's the best pic I could find. Mine is the SCR, so no X-Mas tree, but the fat parts are the same.
I have a throw lever ordered, already had a level for it. I'll likely mount it some time this weekend. I took off today, but spread 6 yards of #4 rock and then cut a LOT of grass, then cleared out another little spot to get grass growing there, had to grind a couple of small stumps afterwards. So, I should have plenty of time this weekend to mount it and shoot it next to other scopes. Primarily my Tract 30 LR PRS scope and my PST Gen II.
I have my Bushnell XRS III sitting in the safe in rings, so I could use it for reference as well. I tend to leave them in rings once I mount them.
Yes, reticles on FFP tend to be very thin at low power, and this one is no different. Most people buying FFP scopes aren't using the lower power setting. I can't remember going under 6X in a match, and starting at 8Xor 10X is more common.
That said, Burris beefed up the reticle outside the parts that have Mil hashes. It makes it where you can easily see the "center" of the reticle fairly easily at 3.3X is you really needed it. Here's the best pic I could find. Mine is the SCR, so no X-Mas tree, but the fat parts are the same.
I have a throw lever ordered, already had a level for it. I'll likely mount it some time this weekend. I took off today, but spread 6 yards of #4 rock and then cut a LOT of grass, then cleared out another little spot to get grass growing there, had to grind a couple of small stumps afterwards. So, I should have plenty of time this weekend to mount it and shoot it next to other scopes. Primarily my Tract 30 LR PRS scope and my PST Gen II.
I have my Bushnell XRS III sitting in the safe in rings, so I could use it for reference as well. I tend to leave them in rings once I mount them.
The clicks are solid, but it always end up in between the white lines, as in, it doesn't line up. The first click is at 1 1/2 tenth, and every click after that is a half tenth too much and between the hashes. Zero lines up, it can't not line up they way it is set up/does the zero stop. Not happy with that. May call Burris and see what they say.
Image suffers at anything over about 15X. Turrets are stiff, expect that to ease up some by all reports. Magnification ring is pretty firm, but smooth, and the Anarchy Outdoors throw lever works well.
Glass is good to very good, and not just in the center, image doesn't degrade noticeably on the edges, that's nice. I used some Bushnell Forge 15X binoculars at a PRS match and they were "wow" in the center, but poor well before you got to the edge. I looked through some Tract 12.5X and Meopta Meostar 15X binoculars at the same match and they were "wow" all the way to the edge. (Tract now makes a 15X)
They advertise a large eye box, it's average IMHO. Very usable.
I was frankly expecting more value at the sale price.
Image suffers at anything over about 15X. Turrets are stiff, expect that to ease up some by all reports. Magnification ring is pretty firm, but smooth, and the Anarchy Outdoors throw lever works well.
Glass is good to very good, and not just in the center, image doesn't degrade noticeably on the edges, that's nice. I used some Bushnell Forge 15X binoculars at a PRS match and they were "wow" in the center, but poor well before you got to the edge. I looked through some Tract 12.5X and Meopta Meostar 15X binoculars at the same match and they were "wow" all the way to the edge. (Tract now makes a 15X)
They advertise a large eye box, it's average IMHO. Very usable.
I was frankly expecting more value at the sale price.
dranrab
Member
I am underwhelmed with mine. I ended up moving it to a target rimfire.
Burris emailed me and :
I responded with:
That's a huge difference, very poor communication. I choose to believe the second answer, but it would e easy to wonder which answer is real.
"Realigned the elevation knob"........... Well, we'll see.
Anyway, my answer back:
Hopefully the scope will be here in the next couple of days, so I can mount it on the Bergara and check it out.
I responded with:
They then responded with:
That's a huge difference, very poor communication. I choose to believe the second answer, but it would e easy to wonder which answer is real.
"Realigned the elevation knob"........... Well, we'll see.
Anyway, my answer back:
Hopefully the scope will be here in the next couple of days, so I can mount it on the Bergara and check it out.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
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- 14,897
@Walkalong - I’m feeling a bit of the same conflict recently with Burris. I’ve seldom used their scopes in the past because each instance has left me underwhelmed in performance for the price. I have dealer/instructor pricing access to Burris, and have it towards used FastFires for many years, and in each instance, I’ve been frustrated - disappointed - in their customer service, and frankly, with their product knowledge. I picked up an XTR II a couple of years ago on a prize table, and debated whether I should even open the box, rather reselling it instead. I found it to be “not bad,” but not terribly satisfying, and again, at a performance point which fell short of Bushnell’s DMR II or XRS II at the same price. But grateful for the donorship and support of the sport, I kinda bit my tongue about it. When the RT25 dropped, I spoke with a pro shooter friend who had tested one, comparing it to Vortex Strike Eagle and Venom, and Bushnell Matchmaster (vaporware) - and was pleasantly surprised. The shooter also teased me with - “wait until you see the new XTR coming out,” which he had been testing in pre-production. Sure enough, when the XTR Pro dropped, I was impressed. Not as much impressed by the XTR III, but the III WAS a big improvement over the II - at least in the high magnification model. And then I hear your troubles here with the lower mag XTR III, and especially your communication issues… which is completely in line with my experience in communicating with their marketing folks who support matches versus their office folks who push paper…
I really think there is a split personality disorder issue at Burris. They CAN make great optics, but not all are, and not all of their customer facing folks are high quality. I spent a few hours on the phone with one of their marketing managers a few weeks ago when seeking support for our prize table at our state PRS Club Finale - they were super generous and offered to send a larger box next season up front to support the entire year of matches, and we spent hours chatting about shooting matches with some of the folks in the Colorado and Wyoming territory, and hunting speedgoats, elk, mulies and bear out in Colorado… I’ve worked with two of these folks in the past 5 seasons, and they’ve both been exactly what a shooter would want from a company like Burris. Active shooters and hunters with a passion for growing our sports. I also spoke a handful of months ago with two of their tech reps - one who was a jobber reading a manual and couldn’t answer my questions, the other who knew the technical answer, but did a quick test of the product to confirm himself before we parted. I’m also reminded of the office gals I speak with when I renew each year for their discount program and place those orders… it’s like standing in line at the DMV… I did just pick up my own RT25, so I’ll get to test drive that beside my XTRII and other optics to see how it really runs. Might even get a few guys together with some of these lower cost FFP’s to compare soon - our board and a few shooters talked about this option for a while after our Finale last wknd to put together a “Pro’s and Con’s list for our incoming shooters each year.”
I really, really want to either really like, or completely disregard Burris from my life. But I really like HALF of their company and products, so I keep spiraling around the flame.
I really think there is a split personality disorder issue at Burris. They CAN make great optics, but not all are, and not all of their customer facing folks are high quality. I spent a few hours on the phone with one of their marketing managers a few weeks ago when seeking support for our prize table at our state PRS Club Finale - they were super generous and offered to send a larger box next season up front to support the entire year of matches, and we spent hours chatting about shooting matches with some of the folks in the Colorado and Wyoming territory, and hunting speedgoats, elk, mulies and bear out in Colorado… I’ve worked with two of these folks in the past 5 seasons, and they’ve both been exactly what a shooter would want from a company like Burris. Active shooters and hunters with a passion for growing our sports. I also spoke a handful of months ago with two of their tech reps - one who was a jobber reading a manual and couldn’t answer my questions, the other who knew the technical answer, but did a quick test of the product to confirm himself before we parted. I’m also reminded of the office gals I speak with when I renew each year for their discount program and place those orders… it’s like standing in line at the DMV… I did just pick up my own RT25, so I’ll get to test drive that beside my XTRII and other optics to see how it really runs. Might even get a few guys together with some of these lower cost FFP’s to compare soon - our board and a few shooters talked about this option for a while after our Finale last wknd to put together a “Pro’s and Con’s list for our incoming shooters each year.”
I really, really want to either really like, or completely disregard Burris from my life. But I really like HALF of their company and products, so I keep spiraling around the flame.
Burris sent me an email about the scope going out in a bulk shipment and something bout Canada. Ok, I guess when it gets nearby they break it out and ship it to me, and assumed they would then email me a tracking number. Well, nothing until today when I got an email saying it was returned to Burris because of a bad address. They did not share that address. Sigh, so I don't know address, if they made a mistake, or I made a mistake, or what happened, guess I'll call them in the AM. It would have been nice if they had sent me an email with the address and a tracking number, I could have seen the error and possibly gotten it re-routed.
nettlle
Contributing Member
I had a Burris decades ago with a blurry sight picture and returned the scope to them for warranty repair. Burris sent me a list of things that were wrong with it that they repaired and when I got it back it was it was worse after the repairs. I still have the scope. I don’t sell bad stuff to other people. I have bought Leupold since then and that has been a good choice for me.
I am sorry you are having this kind of difficulty and I know exactly how you feel. I hope Burris makes things right for you.
I am sorry you are having this kind of difficulty and I know exactly how you feel. I hope Burris makes things right for you.
I talked to a nice fellow at Burris just now, I told him I didn't know if it was my mistake or there's, but they tried to send it to the wrong address, as well as using the wrong (misspelled) admittedly not average last name. I know how to spell my name, so......but at any rate he just laughed, apologized, and said he'd get it sent out with the corrected name and address.
Friendly yes, doing me right, as far as I can tell yes, communication......not so great. A big company problem I guess.
Friendly yes, doing me right, as far as I can tell yes, communication......not so great. A big company problem I guess.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
I hope they got it fixed right. And it last a long long time. I have 3 Burris scopes. 2 are on my 17HMR'S. Fullfeild E1's. I have a droptine on my mini 14. I'll admit im concerned it will hold up to the cycling. Thinking about putting a UTG scope on it. They are made to handle both firearms and air guns.
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