Bushmaster HBAR?

[TimH]

I am going to look at a Bushmaster rifle tomorrow. The person that owns it wasn't sure what model it was he just said it was the A2 heavy barrel target model. What are the pros & cons of the HBAR vs standard barrel? He thinks its a 20" barrel. Can you put a standard upper on this rifle? Would the upper have to be a Bushmaster or could you put a RRA upper on it? Any areas of concern as far as wear & tear I should look for? He said it has had about a 1000 rounds throught it. He used it for target competition. Any ball park figures on what a fair price for this rifle might be? I know it depends on the condition but just a general idea of price. Thanks Tim

 

[SodaPop]

My favorite Bushmaster AR variant is the Bushmaster XM15E2. I'm pretty sure that is the rifle your friend has.

If I get another AR its gonna be a RRA.

 

[CWL]

Sounds like this one http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa2s20.asp

FYI - HBAR stands for heavy barrel, which nowadays is the 'standard barrel' as this is the military specification barrel diameter (former model A1 barrels were found to be too thin and susceptible to bend, warp).

Nowadays, you will typicall find: 1) light barrels, 2) HBAR = standard barrels, and 3) bull barrels -which are the thick ones.

You will be able to put any standard upper on this rifle's lower reciever, all it takes is pushing out two take-out pins.

Dunno the age of the gun, but a rifle with only 1000 rounds thru it should have anywhere from 20K-50K more rounds of life left in it at least. Targetshooters tend to baby their rifles.

Check www.ar15.com for lots of great info incl how to evaluate ARs.

 

[ny32182]

1000 rds is NOTHING. I consider 1K rounds to be the break-in period.

The HBAR is the standard barrel. There are lighter profiles, such as M4 and with bushy, the Superlight. The heavier the profile, the longer it takes to heat up, but the better it retains heat. HBAR is generally considered to be better for rapid fire because of its "slower to heat" property though.

I have a 20" bushy A3, and have had zero failures with it. Very accurate. Its a little heavy compared to the carbines, but it is a full size rifle.

As far as wear, take apart the bolt/carrier, and make sure there is no cracking around the cam pin hole, or on the cam pin itself, and check the firing pin retainer pin to make sure its in good shape. make sure the firing pin isn't bent. Make sure there is no pitting on the bolt face. Check the gas rings on the bolt to make sure they aren't deformed in any way. Check the lower to make sure it functions correctly. None of this should be a problem on a rifle with only 1K rounds; as thats not enough to cause any noticeable wear to the carrier assembly.

The most important thing you want to check for at 1K rounds is wear on the buffer face. A light, clean ring that matches up with the rear of the carrier is pretty normal. If there is a ring of dents around the very outer edge of the buffer face that match up with the buffer retainer pin, then thats a problem. It means that the buffer is slamming the retainer pin on each shot, which could be caused by a number of different things, but it means that something is definitely out of spec and the carrier assembly is sitting to far forward in the upper. I wouldn't buy a rifle with this problem under any circumstance.

Other than that, if you are getting a good price, jump all over it. Good luck.

 

[Edward429451]

The pros and cons are that its heavier (pro) so it heats up slower, but its heavier (con?, nah, not that much heavier). There is no con to that rifle! I own one and its tops.

He probably paid between 700 & 900 for it. That should clue you where to start the bidding.

 

[TimH]

Well he is asking $775 for it. I don't know what it comes with though. Thanks for the input...Tim

 

[Poodleshooter]

$775 isn't bad if you get some accessories, magazines or ammo with it. New Bushmasters run about $700-$750 wholesale (add FFL fees and shipping to that).
The HBAR profile isn't the same as the "government" profile found on M16A2's. The difference is that under the handguard, an A2 barrel remains about the same diameter as it is near the muzzle. Civilian HBAR's increase in diameter as you move back toward the breech. There's about .5-1# of weight difference, but you can feel it when you compare the two.

 

[SteelyDan]

Heavy long-guns don't bother me, but I must say that the 20" HBAR does have some weight to it. More than I expected or really wanted, frankly. If you plan to use the gun for a lot of target shooting, I'd go with the HBAR. But if you're thinking more about maneuverability and not so many shots, I'd think hard about a lightweight 20" or a 16".

Then again, maybe I'm just getting weaker...

 

[gun-fucious]

HBAR AR15s are considered "sporting" configurations by some legal definitions

in MD the HBAR AR is exempt from the 10 day wait for an"assault rifle"

 

[TimH]

I'm am going to look at it tomorrow.

TTBadboy said:

The most important thing you want to check for at 1K rounds is wear on the buffer face. A light, clean ring that matches up with the rear of the carrier is pretty normal. If there is a ring of dents around the very outer edge of the buffer face that match up with the buffer retainer pin, then thats a problem. It means that the buffer is slamming the retainer pin on each shot, which could be caused by a number of different things, but it means that something is definitely out of spec and the carrier assembly is sitting to far forward in the upper. I wouldn't buy a rifle with this problem under any circumstance.

I hate to appear stupid but where is the buffer? How do I get a look at it? Do I have to take the rifle apart? Thanks for the advice Tim

 

[444]

Push open the rear pin and allow the upper to pivot on the lower. The buffer is the thing that goes into the front of the stock. It is a kind of gold colored thing. As the bolt carrier comes back when the rifle is fired, it hits the buffer.
My main AR has a buffer that is all scratched up. I have put over 6000 rounds through the rifle without a problem.
It is real hard to screw up an AR either at the factory or at home. The main thing that could go south is the barrel from a high round count or a lessor round count by someone that loved to heat up the barrel. Everything on the rifle including the barrel is very easily repaired at home. You could build the whole rifle from start to finish in about an hour with minimal training. There isn't a lot to be worried about.
Yes you can put any upper you want on the rifle. It takes a few seconds to switch uppers.
I have a Bushmaster 20" HBar. Great rifle.

 

[dbshabo]

Tim, check out www.gunbroker.com and www.auctionarms.com for prices on new and used AR's. It will give you a good idea what the rifles are being sold for. I believe I bought my 20" A2 Bushy off gunbroker for $759 new, after shipping and FFL transfer fee I paid ~$800 for a brand spankin' new rifle.

You can order all the parts to build a rifle yourself even cheaper. There is an extra charge of some sort tacked onto assembled rifle prices. Our guvment at work again. It is easy to put these things together and between www.ar15.com (full of good info from knowledgeable and very helpful members) and http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/mainpage.msnw (chocked full of useful AR info as well) you could find all the assistance you would need to build your own.

If I was looking at a used AR I would check the barrel out with a bore light. Bushy's have chrome lined bores and chambers. They are great and after 1000 rounds it should be bright and shiny. If it doesn't appear that way ask the seller what kind of ammo he put thru it and how often he cleaned it. It may clean up just fine (advantage of chrome lining) even if it is dirty. As someone else said check the bolt and carrier out VERY closely as these are the heart of the gun. Have him take the carrier out of the upper and look it over for cracks, wipe off the lube before you look as micro cracks can be hidden by lube. Have him take out the cam pin and hold the carrier so that the bolt is pointed toward the floor or table. If the bolt falls out of the carrier it means the bolt rings need to be replaced. As said by someone else check the bolt face out closely. Look for uneven wear on the lugs and pitting. Take a close look at the extractor for wear. If it is excessively worn he most likely was shooting steel cased ammo thru the gun. Push down on the ejector and make sure it doesn't stick in place. Wow this is getting too long.

If you don't feel comfortable about the gun or your ability to judge it's condition ask the seller if you can have a gunsmith look it over for ya. If he's not agreeable to that I'd pass on it. Even if there are some minor defects with the rifle be advised that 99.5% of the parts in the gun can be replace for very little $$. Sorry for rambling on here. Good luck.

Shabo

 

[TimH]

Thanks agian Everyone. Lots of great info. I had quite a phone coversation with the seller last night. Seemed like a nice guy but you can never tell. He seems like a real "gun nut" so I cofident he has taken great care of the gun. Although I could purchase the gun brand new for about the same price I would prefer to buy privately. If all goes well I be an AR owner tomorrow. Thanks again Tim

 

[Jaywalker]

I believe there's a misunderstanding here about the HBAR. It is perhaps the "standard" commercial version, but that's because the commercial makers don't want the added expense of machining the barrel to standard military A2 dimensions. The commercial version is just one constant size under the handguard. The military A2 barrel is about one pound lighter, and that does make a significant difference in balance. (Kurt's Kustom firearms does a substantial business in machining existing barrels to A2 (or A1) dimensions.) Yes, of course, it does take longer to heat up or cool down. It shouldn't affect the accuracy either way.

FWIW, the lighter (than A2) barrels were perfectly fine for shooting. They couldn't take the stress of being used as a steel strap breaker (no joke) when opening palletized loads.

Jaywalker

 

[ny32182]

My Superlight cost less than my HBAR, and it is thinner and lighter than any government profile as far as I know.