Buy the short barrel or cut down a long one?

[Boba Fett]

I've been considering getting a Savage 10FP LE in 308 for quite a while.

However, the 20" versions with the regular stock are getting rather hard to come by.

You can get the one with the folding Chaote stock. It has the 20" barrel, however I've heard some bad reviews regarding that stock.

Now, I could get the newer 10FP LE, but it has a 24" barrel. I plan to get a suppressor for it and a shorter barrel would be nice in keeping the length down.

Ultimately, I will likely change out the stock either way. The thing is however, there is generally around a $200+ difference between the Choate 20" and the regular 24".

So which is a better idea? Spend a few hundred more for the one that is already 20" or pay for someone to cut the 24" down.

I'm leaning toward the Choate because I won't have to worry about the rifle getting screwed up or in someway being weakened by cutting it down (or should I not worry about that?)


What are your opinions? Other ideas?

 

[waterhouse]

Most places that I've used for threading will cut and recrown a barrel for not much more than the threading costs.

If it were me and I was going to thread it, I'd take the one that was $200 cheaper and put that cash towards the cut and thread work.

 

[lipadj46]

Well if you are going to get a suppressor you will need to get the barrel threaded so cutting off 4" is no big deal and should not even cost extra.

 

[danweasel]

So for my follow on question, what does cutting your barrel down do to your twist rate? Maybe that is not the best way to put it as the rate will stay the same, but with say a 1/10 twist (.308) in a 22" barrel, if I cut it down to 18" then my twist rate will not be correct for the barrel length, right? How much do you think accuracy would suffer?

I have always wanted to do this to my Stevens 200 .308. Just for fun. I am about to upgrade to a Savage .300 win mag so now I can "experiment".

 

[R.W.Dale]

Twist rate is tied to bullet length and velocity to a achieve a certain RPM of spin on the bullet to allow for stability in flight.

Other than the slight change in velocity 4" bbl length will not effect this. You'd have to cut pretty much the entire bbl off a 1/10" 308win to dramatically effect bullet stabilization with all but the very longest bullets.

 

[Maverick223]

I agree with waterhouse and lipapj46, if you plan to thread it, get the newer cheap one and chop it at the same time.

Also 20" will be fine for stabilizing just about any .308 due to the fast twist rate.

 

[sneedb82]

I posed a similar question under "Cutting the Barrel" for my .223 Remington -- 26" Heavy Barrel. I want to thread, recrown and put a thread protector on it so I can eventually put a can on it. The twist is 1/12, and taking 6 inches or so off it.... would that drastically change the dynamics of a 40 or 55gr bullet as well? This rifle is a shooter already, and don't wanna do anything to jeopardize that... it's just too friggin heavy!

 

[Maverick223]

would that drastically change the dynamics of a 40 or 55gr bullet as well

You should be fine, but firing something heavier than a 55gr bullet may result in a poorly stabilized bullet. You may be able to get away with 62gr. bullets but not all barrels are alike.

 

[sneedb82]

I've yet to experiment with the 26" barrel and the 62gr bullets... mostly because of the fact it's a 1/12 twist. Everything I've been engrained has been NO NO, tumble city, know what I mean? LOL

Thanks for the input.

 

[Boba Fett]

FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN WHAT CUTTING A BARREL DOWN DOES, READ THE LINKS

A fellow THR member linked this for me once:
http://www.sniperschool.com/sniper-rifle-barrel-length/
http://www.sniperschool.com/barrel-length-revisited/

And they're cutting their barrels down to 18" there.

Pretty cool school. Would love to visit someday, but gotta get the rifle first.


Quote from the first link:

Simply put, barrel length (within reason) does not affect accuracy within a manner many people believe. My personal rifle, based off of a Remington 700 action, has an 18″ .308 barrel. When people see my rifle, they often ask, “How much does that affect the accuracy?”

Their question, although a valid one, is usually asked in such a way that assumes accuracy must have been compromised in order for the barrel to be so short. The exact opposite is true.

My rifle came from the factory with acceptable sub minute of angle (less than 1″ group per 100yds) accuracy out of a 26″ barrel. I had my barrel cut down to 18″, took it out to the range and was pleasantly surprised to see the accuracy improve to a 1/2 minute of angle. Yes, you just read that right… the shorter barrel was more accurate.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

So for my follow on question, what does cutting your barrel down do to your twist rate?

Twist rate is cut into the barrel and in all modern sporting firearms is constant. Cutting the barrel, as long as you don't cut it at the throat, before the rifling starts, will have no effect on twist rate.

 

[cchris]

Twist rate will stay the same, as far as the theoretical aspect of it goes. If a round turns once per 10 inches, then it turns twice per 20 inches: 2/20 = 1/10 = the same twist rate. So cutting it to 15 inches means it'll turn 1.5 times, and 1.5/15 is still 1/10. As far as it's theoretically concerned, you'd have to actually change the rifling to change the twist rate.

Now this may/may not be true for non-theoretical situations, keep in mind I'm an engineer and not a gunsmith.

 

[Boba Fett]

http://www.sniperschool.com/sniper-rifle-barrel-length/

A common argument I hear from disbelievers revolves around some sort of belief that the twist rate must relate to the barrel length. This fallacy tries to say that since the twist rate of my .308 700 PSS is 1 in 12″, the barrel must be cut to a length in multiples of 12 inches in order for the bullet to spin properly. This is absurd. If this was true, Remington would never ship the PSS from the factory with a 26 inch barrel. And for that matter, a 1911 style .45 with a twist rate of 1in 16″ would have a 16″ barrel in order to be able to hit the target.

So, if a bullet from my barrel is spinning at a 1 in 12″ rate regardless of the length, why did cutting it down increase the accuracy? The answer lies in the effect of barrel stiffness. We all understand that a thicker bull barrel will provide better accuracy than a thin sportster style barrel. From this we know that a stiffer barrel helps increase accuracy by negating excessive barrel flex and vibration. The only way to stiffen an already stiff bull barrel from the factory is to shorten it. Let me explain….

Inch per inch, the barrel’s stiffness has not changed. But when taking the entire length into account, the overall effect is a stiffer barrel. Think about a 2 inch stick that is just stiff enough to be unbreakable. Now, take a stick of the same diameter with a length of 12 inches…. it would be much easier to break. Each individual inch of the two sticks share the same rigidity, but the longer stick allows more leverage to be imparted on the stick and therefore nets less overall stiffness and more leverage.

So, by cutting the barrel, the twist rate was not affected and the barrel was relatively stiffer.

 

[danweasel]

THis has been a very informative thread. Thanks a lot guys, especially Boba Fett. Exactly what I wanted to hear.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Because cutting the barrel will usually (but not always) affect muzzle velocity, the rate of twist will not be affected, but the rate of spin will be.

Imagine you have a barrel with a rate of twist of 1:12. The bullet does one rotation with every foot it moves. If the muzzle velocity is 3,000 fps, the bullet will be spinning at 3,000 rps (revolutions per second.) If cutting the barrel results in a new muzzle velocity of 2800 fps, then the bullet will be spinning at 2800 rps.

If the bullet is only maginally stable to begin with, this may affect accuracy.