Buying a Smith with a Lock Hole?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've had a few and while I've never had any issues with them I kinda curmudgeoned myself into trading or replacing them.
A couple 442s and a 340M&P were replaced by a LCR and a nice pinned barrel M36.
The 686SSR and 610 were replaced by a pinned n recessed M28 and a Ruger Match Champion 10mm.
 
Don’t like the look in the two I have but beyond that never pay them any mind. My 638 and 629 are good revolvers.
 
The hole is really the least of S&W problems.
I advise you get up-to-speed on their revolvers or there is a very high probability -- approaching certainty -- that you will buy a piece of junk.
I estimate that more than half the guns leaving the factory have major defects.
The good news is that S&W will fix most of them, at least half of them, if you send it back multiple times.
Ideally, you find one that isn't screwed up to begin with.
This guide is a good place to start:
revolver_checkout.pdf - Google Drive

At a bare minimum, I would have a few tools to check it out: Feeler gauges to check the b/c gap, a no-go gauge to check headspace (can also be done with an empty case and feeler gauges, and a precision-ground range rod. There is a good chance that the barrel was crushed when S&W screwed it into the frame.

It may be more my opinion than anything, but the 637 is one of their worst models to begin with. It's an aluminum frame that isn't durable. It's too small to get a good grip on, and the trigger is terrible -- it may be smooth with a crisp sear break, but it's heavy and has a big pressure spike before it moves back more and then breaks. The K, L, N frame triggers are the best, of any revolver. If you really want a small revolver, get a 2.75" model 66 -- twice the gun the 637 is. But still, be prepared for major problems, because of the kind of quality S&W produces. Great designs. Great technology. Often bad execution. The only good news is they can be fixed with lots of work and often some money.

If they are junk why go through all the trouble?
 
I owned a dozen or so over the years and never had a problem with them. I never even found it all that bad looking really. Some early S&W's had a pin in almost that exact same place "back in the day."

Now, I will freely admit that I have never been one to try to shoot a gun enough to wear it out, but they all got fired. Some were purchased new, some used.
 
Anyway you can help make a firearm kid safe is OK by me. Especially when you don't have to hang some big Master Lock on it.
I don't think S&W bowed to anybody politically, Just one courtroom litigation today, could wipe them out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Duster340
I have never had any problems with any of my S&W revolvers. I have 5 of them ranging from a J frame .357, to a 686+ .357 mag, a 327 nightguard in .357 mag, a 629 in .44 mag and a 500 magnum. They all have the lock. aesthetically, the lock is not even noticeable to me and it certainly hasn't caused any functional problems. The lock vs no lock thing is basically just a selling point for people looking to increase the value of their pre-lock pistols. And that's fine. Good luck to them. It's my opinion though that there's nothing wrong with having the lock. It may even be useful to some. That doesn't mean I like the fact that S&W bowed to anti-2A political pressure (on their freaking revolvers no less) but I have moved on a and, as I said, it has not been an issue for me. I'm happy with all of my S&W revolvers. Never had a problem with any of them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blue Jays
What are these major defects? It does readers no good if they don't know what to look for.

That's why I posted the link to the "Revolver Checkout" -- a detailed list of things to look for. I also mentioned a few tools and three things that can be measured easily without disassembly: barrel-to-cylinder gap, headspace, and barrels crushed at the frame insertion point. The range rod I mentioned also checks timing.

Besides those things, there are problems with cosmetic defects (big gouges on $1400 guns), dented muzzle crowns, excessively short firing pins, buggered strain screws, chronic misfires, dead or dim tritium night sights, diagonally cut barrel faces, short sight screws (that cause pitting on the cylinder), misaligned hammers, canted barrels, and rough machine marks in the chamber throats.

If they are junk why go through all the trouble?

For some people, it's not worth it. I still think the S&W is the best design double-action revolver out there. The Colt, Ruger and Dan Wesson have some advantages where they are in fact better, but I'm still drawn to the overall package of the S&W for my purposes. Colt and Ruger are not without their own quality issues. I also think the technology on some S&W puts their late models over their older models for some uses. They definitely lack the craftsmanship of the pre-war/depression-era S&W, but the tech like MIM, two-piece barrels, ECM rifling, and CNC machining make those things consistently good even when the guns are put together by mere assemblers. The more recent models are also better suited for race guns -- even as modest as an IDPA revolver.
 
I just bought a new 638. I pick it up tonight. I used to really be bothered with the idea of the HH but now I don’t really care. I know it’s reliable to not lock itself. I don’t like it of course. Someday if the side plate comes off it will get a trigger job/springs but for sure will be plugged
 
I have a bunch of old S&W's(every decade going back to 1880's) and a handful of new ones. I don't even notice it. It's ugly, it's dumb, it's pointless but I have many thousands of rounds through modern guns without issue.

If an older variant is available, buy that if that's what you want. If you want a newer variant buy a new one. There are a lot of old guns in really good condition out there, however some of the newer models are only available with the lock. My favorite revolver is a S&W 929 9mm revolver - it shoots like a laser.

I prefer the old bluing from first half of the 20th century. The fact that newer guns are only available in stainless or cheap looking bluing is a bigger turn off to me at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DR505
I have three SW revolvers w the dreaded H-hole. I have no issues with it but will likely plug em at some point. Not a top priority tho.
 
How big of a deal, really, is the internal lock? Aside from the political implications of it, has anyone had any mechanical issues related to the hole?
I’ve owned 4 with the Lock hole. All needed trigger jobs. One of the 629s I had locked up twice. It went down the road along with another. If I ever purchase anymore S&W revolvers they will be old ones.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: DR505
Howdy

OK, in my current collection I only have two S&W revolvers with the lock, and neither lock ever given me any problem. A Model 617- 6 that I bought used a number of years ago. It left the factory in 2003. My only complaint about this revolver is the full length under barrel lug that S&W seems to be putting on most of their revolvers these days. And the butt ugly rubber grip, but I replaced that with a nice set of wooden grips.

poPo6X6nj.jpg




By the way, the K-22 from the 1930s at the top of this photo, and the Model 17-3 from 1975 at the center are what this old curmudgeon thinks a revolver should look like.

poh0ew7Ij.jpg




The Model 686-6 that I bought brand-spanky-new in 2015 is another story, Here it is pictured with my Model 19-3 from 1975.

poAqEZFzj.jpg




No, the lock is not a problem. Never has been. But S&W has been letting some faulty revolvers out the door that never would have been shipped in the past. When I took the Model 686 to the range the first time, I had to crank the rear sight all the way over to the right to get my bullets to hit at the point of aim. Like this. Yes, I have been shooting revolvers for over 50 years, so I do know how to hit a target.

pmviwVOoj.jpg




When I got it home I took a close look at the closure of the yoke against the frame. That is as far as it will close. It turns out, the barrel is torqued a little bit too far, and does not allow the yoke to close all the way.

poC6tfTTj.jpg




This is the way the yoke should close against the frame, the joint should be almost invisible.

pogLYKGnj.jpg




The yoke not closing all the way is why I had to crank the rear sight so far to the right to get my bullets to print where the sights said they should print.

So, no problem with the lock,but I will not be buying any new S&W revolvers any more unless they fix their QC problems.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Got a 686 and a 586. Triggers are great out of the box and both are accurate. Either you like them or you don't. I personally have not heard of anyone having issues. The internet is full of opinions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pat Riot
Status
Not open for further replies.