Buying scopes=what to look for?

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Axis II

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Hi all.

I have a 22lr Savage Mark II i never really messed with because it was inaccurate until yesterday i threw a cheapo 4-12 on it and found the action screws to be very loose and now it shoots pretty well. I am debating putting a higher end scope on it and kind of rethinking my scope on my varmint rifle. The 22 scope has to go cause the AO is bent and rubs the barrel and magnification changes POI. Id like to keep it in the under $200 range for the 22lr and thinking Mueller APV 4-14-40. Great reviews but never heard of them until last night. I can grab one for about $110 but hear they are very heavy. Id like to start shooting 22lr at 100yards and see some posts on RFC guys suggesting a 20x scope!

Varmint rifle-While I like my Vortex CF II 6-18-44 its clear, holds zero pretty good but eye relief is a little finicky when at 18x. I've been looking at the offering from Burris, Leupold and Weaver all morning but not really sure stepping up to those would be worth it? I see some of them have the parallax focus on the side, some on the front some have crazy high price ranges for the same magnification and some middle of the road. I'm thinking about $350-400 price range for that scope. Main purpose for this would be punching paper and woodchucks out to 300-400yards.

What do you guys look for when buying a scope for a particular rifle?
 
Odd Job said:
$400 to hit woodchucks at 400 yards with a .22LR?
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I'm pretty sure he's talking about for his .223 lol

ohihunter2014 said:
Hi all.

I have a 22lr Savage Mark II i never really messed with because it was inaccurate until yesterday i threw a cheapo 4-12 on it and found the action screws to be very loose and now it shoots pretty well. I am debating putting a higher end scope on it and kind of rethinking my scope on my varmint rifle. The 22 scope has to go cause the AO is bent and rubs the barrel and magnification changes POI. Id like to keep it in the under $200 range for the 22lr and thinking Mueller APV 4-14-40. Great reviews but never heard of them until last night. I can grab one for about $110 but hear they are very heavy. Id like to start shooting 22lr at 100yards and see some posts on RFC guys suggesting a 20x scope!

Varmint rifle-While I like my Vortex CF II 6-18-44 its clear, holds zero pretty good but eye relief is a little finicky when at 18x. I've been looking at the offering from Burris, Leupold and Weaver all morning but not really sure stepping up to those would be worth it? I see some of them have the parallax focus on the side, some on the front some have crazy high price ranges for the same magnification and some middle of the road. I'm thinking about $350-400 price range for that scope. Main purpose for this would be punching paper and woodchucks out to 300-400yards.

What do you guys look for when buying a scope for a particular rifle?
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With consideration to the uses your likely to have, I would personally move the Vortex over to the .22, and opt for another higher end scope for your dedicated Varmint rifle.

Again generalizing and not picking a brand these are the things I would look for.

Power range from anywhere from 3/6-24, your not likely to need less than 6, and in my experience unless conditions are really good, 20-24s about as much as i can use on a regular basis. Shorter power ranges, 4-12, 6-18, 6.5-20s etc, will usually be a little cheaper so you MAY be able to give up some low end or top end to get a better quality scope.

If your going to be adjusting the scope a lot, something that has solid, accurate, and repeatable adjustments. Zero stops are nice, but I dont think they are necessary.

With any scope that has a max power over 10, It has to have some form of focus, and I really like side focus adjustments. They are easier and faster to adjust on the fly, and usually allow for a smaller objective bell for similar size lenses.

Eye relief/eye box, isnt a huge issue for me on a gun thats not shot quickly. So im willing to give up a bit on this and simply work around it, if your shooting style needs it to be more forgiving, then check this carefully before buying.

Knowing your preference for Vortex and Leupold, id look for used scopes vx-3+, or mid range Viper level.
Personally since i like Nikons, id probably look at used Monarchs as well. I also like the Athlon scopes, but still not having a huge amount of time behind them and no higher end ones, i cant say as to how they will work for someone who spins turrets.
One thing to remember is pretty much all the decent scope companies have very good customer service, so buying used normally isnt a big deal.
 
LoonWulf said:
I'm pretty sure he's talking about for his .223 lol



With consideration to the uses your likely to have, I would personally move the Vortex over to the .22, and opt for another higher end scope for your dedicated Varmint rifle.

Again generalizing and not picking a brand these are the things I would look for.

Power range from anywhere from 3/6-24, your not likely to need less than 6, and in my experience unless conditions are really good, 20-24s about as much as i can use on a regular basis. Shorter power ranges, 4-12, 6-18, 6.5-20s etc, will usually be a little cheaper so you MAY be able to give up some low end or top end to get a better quality scope.

If your going to be adjusting the scope a lot, something that has solid, accurate, and repeatable adjustments. Zero stops are nice, but I don't think they are necessary.

With any scope that has a max power over 10, It has to have some form of focus, and I really like side focus adjustments. They are easier and faster to adjust on the fly, and usually allow for a smaller objective bell for similar size lenses.

Eye relief/eye box, isn't a huge issue for me on a gun that's not shot quickly. So I'm willing to give up a bit on this and simply work around it, if your shooting style needs it to be more forgiving, then check this carefully before buying.

Knowing your preference for Vortex and Leupold, id look for used scopes vx-3+, or mid range Viper level.
Personally since i like Nikons, id probably look at used Monarchs as well. I also like the Athlon scopes, but still not having a huge amount of time behind them and no higher end ones, i cant say as to how they will work for someone who spins turrets.
One thing to remember is pretty much all the decent scope companies have very good customer service, so buying used normally isn't a big deal.
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I did think about putting the Vortex 6-18 on the 22lr too but not even sure it will fit. I have to use the old school dovetail rings with this rifle so rings are limited. Id like to start shooting it at 100yards when the 223 is cooling down and do some of the 22lr bench rest shoots my club puts on but 18x maybe overkill for 50yards. lol.

I walked away from Nikon (used to be a big fan) due to the Prostaffs at higher powder being able to see like a black ring on the inside and the crosshairs are way too thick for me. When i put a 4-12 vortex crossfire and a 4-12 Prostaff side x side on a demo stock I said man this crossfire is way clearer but both are lower end of those companies. I shot a 300win mag i believe it was with a monarch at 14x and i wasn't impressed. IDK if it was because i didn't want to start messing with the guys parallax and eye piece but i thought man this is on par with my Prostaffs.

I am debating if i want to sell the standard barrel axis with 4-12 vortex crossfire on it because it just doesn't get used. If that had an AO i would have already move it to the 22lr. My long chat with my buddy last night kind of made me realize I hang on to stuff for the what ifs when i could ditch all the cheap stuff and get something nice.

It could be just me but I'm finding myself moving my head around a lot with the 6-18 when its cranked all the way up trying to get a clear picture without the black ring fading in and out.

I kind of screwed myself when it came to all this stuff because i had no one to guide me so i went with the highest in i could afford but now with more time in the field and behind the trigger I'm starting to dislike some of the stuff.

I take it you would stay in a companies like 2nd-3rd level range, say vx2/vx3 and Monarch?
 
Everyone has different preference for scopes, alot of it is dependent on their usages and how they see thru them.

I would definitely suggest staying vx-2 or better, both for the glass, and repeatable adjustments.
If your ok with adjustable AOs keep an eye out for some of the older models they are offten cheaper and of good quality.

My .22 also has a groved receiver. There are quite a few options for mounting scopes on them, but I'm looking at adding some height to mine (I actually own a stock with a comb too high, go figure), so Im going to install a 3/8th to pic rail riser. That will give me the height I need, a bit more forward leeway in mounting, and the option to use Weaver/pic rings.
 
LoonWulf said:
Everyone has different preference for scopes, alot of it is dependent on their usages and how they see thru them.

I would definitely suggest staying vx-2 or better, both for the glass, and repeatable adjustments.
If your ok with adjustable AOs keep an eye out for some of the older models they are offten cheaper and of good quality.

My .22 also has a groved receiver. There are quite a few options for mounting scopes on them, but I'm looking at adding some height to mine (I actually own a stock with a comb too high, go figure), so Im going to install a 3/8th to pic rail riser. That will give me the height I need, a bit more forward leeway in mounting, and the option to use Weaver/pic rings.
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I'm finding some older leupolds floating around ebay but i hear there are some fakes running around.
 
That's true, when buying any of the more expensive scopes used you need to research what your buying carefully.
Sometimes that work in your favor tho, I've gotten "the real deal" on a few items that were poorly listed and could have been fakes. Play that game tho and your taking a risk.
 
It's not hard to know what the fakes are on eBay. I've gotten a number of Leupold scopes on eBay for good prices and have never been sent a fake. My cheap 2-7X Leupold is good for crows at 300 yards and I even used it for a raccoon at about 350 yards.
 
Grumulkin said:
It's not hard to know what the fakes are on eBay. I've gotten a number of Leupold scopes on eBay for good prices and have never been sent a fake. My cheap 2-7X Leupold is good for crows at 300 yards and I even used it for a raccoon at about 350 yards.
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No, its not usually too hard to tell, at least with most listings.
The ones that can be a real issue, are the guys that DID get taken, then try to recoup by passing off what they now know is a fake as the real thing. Those listings are the ones that usually have the correct info in the tittle, and often in the descriptions, the pictures are what usually give them away.
Ive only seen a few listings like this in the years ebays been flooded with leupy knockoffs, but they ARE out there.
 
I would look into Athlon offerings. They have some that would fit your needs. I have bought off of camera land NY and had a really good experience. Check out their website and give Doug a call. He will provide any info/suggestions you need and probably offer discounting.

Vortex would also be a good option as well. Primary arms is coming out with a 3x18 that is intriguing and the Weaver tactical at Natchez are priced right with Japanese glass. Lots of options these days, just look for the features and reticules you prefer and go from there
 
ohihunter2014 said:
I'm finding some older leupolds floating around ebay but i hear there are some fakes running around.
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I had a friend buy a fake Leupold. It was super clear and the Turrets clicked like a Percision machine. It even tracked absolutely perfectly on the bore sighter. It was a mark 4 he told me he bought at a pawn shop for $400. It was a very good fake. The first shot on a 300 winmag it went foggy. I actually called Leupold and the guy was like let me guess the serial number.....
 
As LoonWulf stated there are plenty of options that will allow you to mount a Crossfire on your .22.

18x on a Crossfire and 18x on a VX-2 are totally different animals.

I would avoid scopes that are loaded with features unless your budget is considerably higher. At $400.00 you can get good glass or a bunch of features but not both.

If you are going to twist turrets I would not get a VX-2 or Vx-3i- I don’t so that would probably be my choice. If twisting turrets I’d get a Vortex Viper.

I’d put the Crossfire on the .22 and add $100.00 to the centerfire rifle scope budget. Then I’d try to find a store with a good selection of scopes and look through as many brands as possible. Some scopes in the same price range will be much clearer to your eyes than others and it will have nothing to do with quality and everything to do with coatings and how the glass is ground.

Between Leupold, Burris, Bushnell, Meopta, Nikon, Sightron and Vortex you’ll find something that rustles your jimmies. I didn’t mention Athlon or Mueller b/c I’ve never looked through them. With Mueller I’d stick to rimfire rifles.
 
Inexperienced shooters worry they will spend to much on a scope.

Seasoned hunters and shooters worry they will spend too LITTLE on a scope.

I would say look for good name brands, Leupold, Nikon, and Zeiss come to mind. Just get a basic scope, with covered windage and elevation turrets.
 
cdb1 said:
As LoonWulf stated there are plenty of options that will allow you to mount a Crossfire on your .22.

18x on a Crossfire and 18x on a VX-2 are totally different animals.

I would avoid scopes that are loaded with features unless your budget is considerably higher. At $400.00 you can get good glass or a bunch of features but not both.

If you are going to twist turrets I would not get a VX-2 or Vx-3i- I don’t so that would probably be my choice. If twisting turrets I’d get a Vortex Viper.

I’d put the Crossfire on the .22 and add $100.00 to the centerfire rifle scope budget. Then I’d try to find a store with a good selection of scopes and look through as many brands as possible. Some scopes in the same price range will be much clearer to your eyes than others and it will have nothing to do with quality and everything to do with coatings and how the glass is ground.

Between Leupold, Burris, Bushnell, Meopta, Nikon, Sightron and Vortex you’ll find something that rustles your jimmies. I didn’t mention Athlon or Mueller b/c I’ve never looked through them. With Mueller I’d stick to rimfire rifles.
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What would be the issue between twisting turrets on a Leupold vs a vortex viper? Any suggestion on which Viper? I just checked on the viper and it doesn't appear its got target turrets based on the picture?
 
In my experience and many others Leupold scopes in the VX-1-3 line have turrets that are accurate enough to sight in a scope but aren’t that repeatable. That works for me because I set and forget. I also strictly hunt. From what I have seen personally and heard, the Viper line has good repeatable turrets. I’d rather have Leupold glass which to my eyes is much superior than anything Vortex has until you get to the Razor line since I don’t twist turrets.

There are two writers I pay attention to when it comes to scopes. Ilya Koshkin and John Barsness. Right or wrong I ignore pretty much everyone else except for David Petzal. There is one subject both writers have addressed in detail and that’s the durability of scopes when turret twisting. In a nutshell they say you need a north of $1k scope if you don’t want the turret components to wear out and the scope lose its turret repeatability. Scopes in the $500.00 range can have excellent repeatability at first but will lose it with repeated use. Their explanation is the scopes are designed that way because the vast majority of scope buyers don’t twist turrets. It’s much more cost effective to repair/replace the few scopes that lose repeatability than put more expensive components in every scope.

Here are some caveats. The scopes I own fall into a range of $300-$750.00. The exceptions are rimfire scopes in which one of mine cost $120.00 and the other $230.00 over five years ago. The statement made about Leupold turret accuracy I can base on personal experience. Most of the other statements about turret accuracy are based on Barsness and Koshkin, not on me. I do trust them though.

I can’t make any suggestions regarding Vipers because I’ve only owned two, back in 2009, didn’t keep them long, and the only dialing I did was just to get them sighted in.
 
^ that

That pretty well fits what I've read. My own experiences is that I've had decent initial accuracy in clicks with the Viper HS I played with for a day. The Leupold Mark AR I had did well also, but again as Cdb1 said I have no idea how long they would have tracked properly.
The scopes below the vx-3 I've used tracked ok usually, but we're not generally consistently enough for dialing first shots all the time.
My Athlons argos fall into this group, as do the Nikon's I own, they track correctly, but not perfectly.
 
I have never owned a viper but check out AA optics for vortex. They get in shipments of refurbs and had a lot of viper options last time and still have a decent selection of viper hs/hst for 300-$500.

Still lifetime warranty etc
 
I'm going to play around with my 6-18 in a week or so and see how well the bdc does so this may eliminate the turret issue but id still like something a little clearer or less fishey at 18x. My buddy took it out to 400yards and wrote down turret numbers and then back tracked with it and said it did well enough for woodchuck work. I've been eye balling some Nikon Monarchs online going for auction or sale/clearance but the nikoplex seems a little too large IMO for target/varmints and its weird how its gold and not black.
 
I don't like Vortex glass, and if you're at that price-point, you're very close to a Leupold or Nikon, cost-wise, anyway.
 
Danoobie said:
Inexperienced shooters worry they will spend to much on a scope.
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There are always exceptions but I agree with that statement.

Danoobie said:
I don't like Vortex glass
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I don’t either with the exception of the Razor line. Bought two Vipers way back and the eye relief, eye box and glass were subpar to my eyes. I’ve looked through Vortex glass regularly since then, almost daily actually when I was selling scopes. I was trying to figure out what I was missing about Vortex that others got. Never have figured it out. There are a ton of people that love Vortex glass though. I do believe the Viper line tracks more accurately than a VX-2 or VX-3 but as previously stated that is not important to me.
 
Ah yeah, reticle reflecting light going in the occular. I haven't seen a scope that won't do that when lit properly. I've never noticed that while in use, only when looking thru them goofing around. The scopes with larger occulars, and/or less anti reflective coatings on the inside of the tube are a little more prone to do it.
 
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