Big Bore
Member
I submitted my application for a C&R license a few weeks ago. Today I received a call from an ATF agent who wants to stop by to make sure I am familiar with federal firearms laws. Is this typical?
C&R Application - Visit from the ATF?
- Thread starter Big Bore
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tinygnat219
Member
Pretty untypical.
My application was approved after 2 months or so and I just got the license in the mail, along with all of the legislation and laws.
Why an ATF agent wants to meet with you is just... wierd.
You list your location as Washington, DC. If so, even with the Heller victory, I am not sure C&R FFLs are allowed. This might be a reason why the ATF wants to speak to you.
I'd see your attorney, and then call and see what his concerns are, with your attorney present. If necessary for meeting, then agree to meet with him at your attorney's office. No need to let him into the domicile.
My application was approved after 2 months or so and I just got the license in the mail, along with all of the legislation and laws.
Why an ATF agent wants to meet with you is just... wierd.
You list your location as Washington, DC. If so, even with the Heller victory, I am not sure C&R FFLs are allowed. This might be a reason why the ATF wants to speak to you.
I'd see your attorney, and then call and see what his concerns are, with your attorney present. If necessary for meeting, then agree to meet with him at your attorney's office. No need to let him into the domicile.
Yes and no.
It's not common for a C&R applicant to have anybody contact them personally at all in most of the U.S. the whole thing is handled through the mail.
There's anecdotal evidence here at THR and elsewhere that New York state C&R applicants get an ATF visit. Then many of them had the inspector/agent asking them all these questions about their 01 commercial FFL which they did not apply for, and are irrelevant to the C&R 03 license, which resulted in mutual confusion. Some just had to assure they'd follow all the irrlevant 01 rules about town zoning etc.
I would contact the agent and confirm they understand you're an 03 C&R applicant, and not an 01 or other type, and while this visit is in no way required, there's really nothing you can do practically without years of time and lawyers if you try to refuse.
My own gut instinct tells me it's really one of three things: (And I suspect A or C as most likely)
A. Someone within the ATF itself does not understand the differences between the types of FFL's and what's required.
B. Some regional director is genuinely worried that C&R's might actually front/funnel guns to the black market, and wants to do these home visits to dissuade the (non) problem.
C. Certain divisions, regions, offices… whatever of the ATF pad their stats to the higher ups by saying they "visited X number of FFL's" during 2008 when they deliver their reports of how good little worker bees they are. And as long as the next boss up in the food chain does not question what kind of FFL's were visited, they didn’t technicaly lie. They could be doing it for simple productivity padding, to maintain/get budget, or maintain head-count and protect jobs.
Once you do get your C&R FFL, you'll also note you get tons of paperwork, and law/rule books that have nothing to do with the C&R FFL, and only apply to the commercial variants, but the ATF insists on sending them to you on a regular basis anyway.
It's not common for a C&R applicant to have anybody contact them personally at all in most of the U.S. the whole thing is handled through the mail.
There's anecdotal evidence here at THR and elsewhere that New York state C&R applicants get an ATF visit. Then many of them had the inspector/agent asking them all these questions about their 01 commercial FFL which they did not apply for, and are irrelevant to the C&R 03 license, which resulted in mutual confusion. Some just had to assure they'd follow all the irrlevant 01 rules about town zoning etc.
I would contact the agent and confirm they understand you're an 03 C&R applicant, and not an 01 or other type, and while this visit is in no way required, there's really nothing you can do practically without years of time and lawyers if you try to refuse.
My own gut instinct tells me it's really one of three things: (And I suspect A or C as most likely)
A. Someone within the ATF itself does not understand the differences between the types of FFL's and what's required.
B. Some regional director is genuinely worried that C&R's might actually front/funnel guns to the black market, and wants to do these home visits to dissuade the (non) problem.
C. Certain divisions, regions, offices… whatever of the ATF pad their stats to the higher ups by saying they "visited X number of FFL's" during 2008 when they deliver their reports of how good little worker bees they are. And as long as the next boss up in the food chain does not question what kind of FFL's were visited, they didn’t technicaly lie. They could be doing it for simple productivity padding, to maintain/get budget, or maintain head-count and protect jobs.
Once you do get your C&R FFL, you'll also note you get tons of paperwork, and law/rule books that have nothing to do with the C&R FFL, and only apply to the commercial variants, but the ATF insists on sending them to you on a regular basis anyway.
Pretty Typical near big Metro / Anti freedom areas
I live in suburban New York (City) and had the same visit. Agent came to the house, very pleasant, just wanted to make sure I knew the regs & that it was not a licensce to deal. Apparently unheard of elsewhere. I couldn't see anything too sinister in it, but YMMV.
Kudos for doing this in DC!
I live in suburban New York (City) and had the same visit. Agent came to the house, very pleasant, just wanted to make sure I knew the regs & that it was not a licensce to deal. Apparently unheard of elsewhere. I couldn't see anything too sinister in it, but YMMV.
Kudos for doing this in DC!
stevelyn
Member
Yup. No need to let the vampires in your house.
I think this is the first I've heard of an applicant getting a Waffen BATFEces visit.
I've had mine since '05 and haven't heard a peep from them.
Bubbles
Member
I've never had a C&R FFL, just the 07. Our site inspection visit took a few hours and really wasn't a big deal. The inspector didn't want to see the whole house, just the office area where we'd be conducting business. At least 3/4 of the time was spent going over Federal gun laws and what we legally could and couldn't do.
Do make sure you get a badge/ID number, vehicle license number, and maybe call the office number. If application information is not secure, thieves may go to amazing lengths to case or knock off a place, particularly if there may be portable goodies on the premises.
I'd offer to visit their offices instead if they're nearby. It's probably not a task they particularly enjoy. In any event, I know you will treat the individual as you would want to be treated. It's a living.
I'd offer to visit their offices instead if they're nearby. It's probably not a task they particularly enjoy. In any event, I know you will treat the individual as you would want to be treated. It's a living.
Neo-Luddite
Member
Unusual--but you're in DC. If you got the name of the person at ATF that called--call and ask them why if you want.
The couple times I've had to call ATF they've been pleasant to deal with.
They have nice recession-proof .gov jobs that DEPEND on people WANTING TO BE INVOLVED in the fun-fun world of gun selling/collecting.
If we all suddenly decide to take up needle point and basket weaving as a hobby (or vocation) they're stuck regulating booze and rot-weed for a living.
The couple times I've had to call ATF they've been pleasant to deal with.
They have nice recession-proof .gov jobs that DEPEND on people WANTING TO BE INVOLVED in the fun-fun world of gun selling/collecting.
If we all suddenly decide to take up needle point and basket weaving as a hobby (or vocation) they're stuck regulating booze and rot-weed for a living.
CDignition
Member
Yep..Ur in DC.. that's why they're there. Get out now.
ctdonath
Member
Extremely unusual.
However, getting a C&R in DC is extremely unusual. Not surprised considering your location.
Having a lawyer present might be a good idea. You should also have the option to meet at the BATFE offices instead of your home.
They very well might just be making it clear to you what the limits are on exercising your C&R: it's not a business, and current DC laws - no matter how contrary to Heller they seem - are the law. Know the law.
Glad to hear SOMEONE is trying to exercise their rights in DC via C&R! Keep us informed.
However, getting a C&R in DC is extremely unusual. Not surprised considering your location.
Having a lawyer present might be a good idea. You should also have the option to meet at the BATFE offices instead of your home.
They very well might just be making it clear to you what the limits are on exercising your C&R: it's not a business, and current DC laws - no matter how contrary to Heller they seem - are the law. Know the law.
Glad to hear SOMEONE is trying to exercise their rights in DC via C&R! Keep us informed.
Bruce333
Member
No, not typical at all. I've only heard of C&R app. folks getting a visit from ATF if they are in NY.
Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever heard of someone in DC applying before. Good for you!
Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever heard of someone in DC applying before. Good for you!
ctdonath
Member
I got my C&R in NY. No visit.
Big Bore
Member
Update:
The ATF investigator came over. He was a friendly guy, no problems or attitude. I told him that I had asked around and I had found that ATF visits for C&R applicants were not common. He replied that it varies by office. He told me there were three other recent applicants in DC (and 3 existing C&R license holders) and he had visited all 3 of them. He was here for about 45 minutes and went through a checklist of a form "ATF P 5300, Acknowledgement of Federal Firearms Regulations". He briefed me on some DC laws, including two that were new to me. First, a DC C&R holder can only dispose of C&R firearms through a DC FFL dealer, and second, I can purchase one, and only one, C&R revolver. He also dropped off several books of regulations. He said I could expect my license in three to four weeks.
The ATF investigator came over. He was a friendly guy, no problems or attitude. I told him that I had asked around and I had found that ATF visits for C&R applicants were not common. He replied that it varies by office. He told me there were three other recent applicants in DC (and 3 existing C&R license holders) and he had visited all 3 of them. He was here for about 45 minutes and went through a checklist of a form "ATF P 5300, Acknowledgement of Federal Firearms Regulations". He briefed me on some DC laws, including two that were new to me. First, a DC C&R holder can only dispose of C&R firearms through a DC FFL dealer, and second, I can purchase one, and only one, C&R revolver. He also dropped off several books of regulations. He said I could expect my license in three to four weeks.
Chipperman
Member
So you could not sell to an FFL dealer outside of D.C, or you just cannot sell to a non-dealer within D.C?
You can only get one revolver?
Well, I guess it's better than nothing. :banghead:velobard
Member
No ATF agents, but I did have a cop knocking on my door at 10:00 pm a few days after I turned in the copy of the application to the local chief of police. he said they have to stop by to double-check the accuracy of the information on the form. A lot of the time I get up at 5:00 a.m. so I'm sound asleep by 10, so he's lucky I was still awake. I did have my OWB holster visible because my cover shirt was off and felt a little subconcious even in my own home because of the attitude of the cops around here.
ctdonath
Member
Did he cite the laws?
I'm not buying the story.
A C&R IS an FFL.
Whence the "one revolver only" law? unless it's part of DC's latest non-compliance method (can Mr. Heller register a second revolver? or not?).
Once those laws are cited verbatum, it sounds like you might have grounds for the next DC case.
Gator
Member
Sounds like its not worth getting a C&R in D.C! And that's the way they want to keep it.
That sounds utterly ridiculous. So, in reality, You really don't get full CR privileges. What a sham. Hopefully, you have a chance to get away from there and enjoy more of your rights without state infringement.A C&R is a type 03 ffl, a collector of curios and relics. It allows you to have 50 year or older firearms (and some others added to a list) to your home. It is not a license to be a dealer and won't do anything for modern guns. The FFL you buy guns from is likely a type 01 ffl, a dealers license.
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