C&R legal question

[mgmorden]

read BATF Q&A "B14". It specifically states a parent or gardian may purchase for a Juvenile in their care.

Read it here: http://www.jasoncook.us/ATFQ&A.pdf

May purchase. Aside from the date issues already brought up, essentially what you're looking at is the gifting exemption. You can buy a rifle for your children because in that case its being treated as a gift.

Put it this way: if I walk into a gun shop and see a nice shotgun and think "Man. I think dad would like that for Fathers Day. I'm going to buy it for him." and I pull out the money and buy it to give to him I'm perfectly legal. I actually did that recently - saw a rifle at a good deal that I thought my brother would like so I bought it for his birthday - with MY money though.

Now, on the other hand, if my dad pulls me aside and says "Hey son, I saw a really nice shotgun in the gun shop up the road. Since you're headed that way, would you mind picking it up for me. I'll pay you back.". Then if I do that it's a straw purchase - a felony - because it's not a GIFT. Doesn't matter if it's father/son, brothers, husband/wife - whatever. If the person filling out the 4473 is not the person actually buying (ie, supplying the funds) the gun then you're breaking the law.

Just as a matter of personal policy too, I would never buy a gun as a gift for someone outside of really close family (ie, spouses, parents, siblings, children, nieces/nephews). Beyond that it's going to be somewhat harder to convince anyone who might question it that you truly were giving a gift. If I really wanted to give a gun to someone outside of that I'd give a gift certificate and let THEM do the paperwork themselves.

 

[deadin]

I'd give a gift certificate and let THEM do the paperwork themselves

Best solution yet!!!

 

[Blackhawk30]

A C&R is an 03 FFL.An FFL cannot transfer a rifle or shotgun to anyone under the age of 18.An FFL cannot transfer a pistol to anyone under the age of 21.Relatives don't get an exemption.

 

[hermannr]

As was stated before by NavyLT, a C&R license is a COLECTORS license, NOT a dealers license....

There is a very big difference as it states ..."A dealer shall not..."

 

[NavyLCDR]

As was stated before by NavyLT, a C&R license is a COLECTORS license, NOT a dealers license....

There is a very big difference as it states ..."A dealer shall not..."

Ummm...... actually, what the law really states is:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html
18 USC 922 (b)

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—

(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

 

[Konstantin835]

It sounds as if gifting is perfectly legal and for now it doesn't really matter if he can't sell them to me, I am 15 and we live in the same house so I can just shoot them as his guns when we go to the range. I really appreciate all the help and as long as gifting is legal I should be fine.

 

[Blackhawk30]

Your dad can't "gift" you a C&R firearm because he is an FFL and he cannot transfer any firearms to anyone under the age of 18.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It sounds as if gifting is perfectly legal

After you turn 18, yes. Until then, no.

Ummm...... actually, what the law really states is:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/71...2----000-.html
18 USC 922 (b)

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—

(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

Gifting would be considered "to deliver".

 

[Konstantin835]

Its just an idea, but I think "deliver" could be in reference to a FFL transfer. Worst case scenario is that the gun or guns in question remain his until I turn 18, until then I can just use them under his supervision. Like I said, I'm 15 and I live with my parents so its not like I have to go out of my way to use them, I can't go to the range without him anyway.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Its just an idea, but I think "deliver" could be in reference to a FFL transfer.

Gifting a C&R firearm that a person obtained with a C&R license to you WOULD BE an FFL transfer!

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...iv8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.8.1.6&idno=27

§ 478.125 Record of receipt and disposition.

(f) Firearms receipt and disposition by licensed collectors. Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below. The purchase or other acquisition of a curio or relic shall, except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, be recorded not later than the close of the next business day following the date of such purchase or other acquisition. The record shall show the date of receipt, the name and address or the name and license number of the person from whom received, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), the model, serial number, type, and the caliber or gauge of the firearm curio or relic. The sale or other disposition of a curio or relic shall be recorded by the licensed collector not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial documents maintained by the licensee, and be readily available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm curio or relic, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm curio or relic is transferred, or the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, and the date of birth of the transferee if other than a licensee. In addition, the licensee shall—

(1) Cause the transferee, if other than a licensee, to be identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a driver's license), and note on the record the method used, and

(2) In the case of a transferee who is an alien legally in the United States and who is other than a licensee—

(i) Verify the identity of the transferee by examining an identification document (as defined in §478.11), and

(ii) Cause the transferee to present documentation establishing that the transferee is a resident of the State (as defined in §478.11) in which the licensee's business premises is located if the firearm curio or relic is other than a shotgun or rifle, and note on the record the documentation used or is a resident of any State and has resided in such State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the transfer of the firearm if the firearm curio or relic is a shotgun or rifle and shall note on the record the documentation used. Examples of acceptable documentation include utility bills or a lease agreement which show that the transferee has resided in the State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the transfer of the firearm curio or relic.

 

[Konstantin835]

I guess I will wait until I'm 18 before doing the gifting thing. Worst case is I can just ask him to get a gun and let me shoot it. I'm not a fan of taking chances legally, theres not much love for guns going on here in NY.