C308 CETME interest

[bullseye308]

I had one of the good ones about 10 years ago that was amazing. Ran like a top with any ammo, amazingly accurate, and never jammed. I got the Bill Springfield trigger work done and it got a lot better. Lots of folks got crappy ones that needed to be worked on to make them run, but for the most part they worked as designed. No idea how they are doing currently, but if you have issues with one there is help out there.

 

[Tommygunn]

*SIGH*
OK....I posted earlier in this thread....and I guess I am going to have to eat some crow and make an admission, which I think maybe only fair since the OP was inquiring about the C308 and maybe considering buying one....
Mine has ceased functioning...for no reason I can fathom.
Here's what happened; yesterday I picked it up to examine and tried to retract the cocking handle (of course assuring it was empty & no magazine). The bolt went back maybe an inch .... and jammed. Hard.
Disassembling the weapon, I took out the bolt carrier and bolt, and, refering to the instructions, took the bolt off the carrier. I noticed the bolt was sitting flush with the carrier and, normally, there is a "play" between the two parts, like how the AR-15 bolt will rotate down and up in the AR15 carrier, but the C308 bolt doesn't rotate, it simply reciprocates, and action that actuates two rollers on either side.
I disassembled the parts --- the locking piece, the firing pin & spring and could find nothing wrong. Truthfully I am not really a gunsmith or even an expert.....but the parts and function seem fairly straightforward, but I could be overlooking some fine details.
Reassembly (according to instructions) did not cure anything. There was no "play" between the two parts, the bolt & BC. When you re assemble you're instructed to leave a space the thickness of a dime between the two parts, which I followed.
I cannot for the life of me figure out what happened ... and I guess the rifle will be going back to Century for repair...or replacement.
I wish I could simply send back the bolt & carrier, but I don't imagine Century would accept that as they might want to check out function.
Oh well. Live and learn I guess.
But I no longer will advise purchase of the Century rifle; earlier posters have suggested better versions and I think I would listen to them.

Does anyone have some ketchup for this crow? .... it's nasty dry .....

 

[barnbwt]

If you're getting an inch of travel, the bolt/carrier are long since unlocked by that point; not gonna be the issue unless your receiver's bent (and you said you could get them out, so that's probably not it.)

-Your cocking tube could bet getting hung up on the recoil guide rod it slides over (seems unlikely to happen abruptly)
-Your ejector lever could be loose or misaligned with the relief cut in the bolt/carrier and snagging
-Your lower could be loose (due to poor fitting of the stupid shelf mod the ATF requires) and the misalignment snagging things
-Your barrel could have pushed out due to a missing cross pin, meaning your rollers now have too much engagement (and if your cocking tube has been pushed forward accordingly, you may no longer have enough initial cam travel to fully unlock the bolt) --this last one only if the initial inch of travel you describe is the unfolding of the cocking handle.

The guns are pretty simple, there isn't much that can suddenly go wrong (now, getting it to work in the first place is a bit tricky, which is why Century were fools to ever think they could cheap out on production)

 

[Tommygunn]

barnbwt, when the BCG is outside the gun, the two pieces are locked up tight against each other. Do you know what causes that?
There may be things wrong with the rifle, as you suggest, but my problem is that even outside the weapon the two parts will not reciprocate as you would think they ought to, and I can see no mechanical thing that inhibits the action .... it simply will not work????

.... -Your ejector lever could be loose or misaligned with the relief cut in the bolt/carrier and snagging .....

I will have to check this out, as it seems the most likely as it doesn't depend upon the assembly being inside the rifle.

Thanks for your help. I will give the rifle another "once over" just to check it out, and maybe it will work out ....but this will be my last dealing with Century. I've learned my lesson.
For 7.62 X 51 / .308 I guess I'll be relying solely on my M1A now.


Geeesh .... I feel like an @ss...

 

[armoredman]

Quote:
Ever since then, just mentioning the word "CETME" is enough to make my wife growl
Blame Century, not CETME (unless it's a Modelo L). Your gun went wonky because your front trunnion probably never got welded in, or something stupid like that (Century has also been known to 'forget' barrel pins, and proper semi-auto conversion practices on these guns)

TCB

Oh, I understand completely - I'd be thrilled to find one of the Mars imported versions. Century did far more damage than just bad welding - look up "ground bolts". Mine was ground, and would have required +4 rollers to work as well as it should have, but it failed far before that could become a problem. That was why I quit buying anything the Century Arms drunken monkeys assembled. Imported, sure, assembled, never, as they outsourced builds to the lowest bidder. Also, the warranty was insulting. One year from date of manufacture. It sat in inventory for over a year, so when I inquired about the warranty on my "brand new rifle" I was told it had expired, and was hung up on like a leper working for the IRS.
The reason I said that about the WORD is that it reminds my wife about the absolute fun I had with that screaming pile of junk plus the inebriated simians who both built and sold it.

Edit to add - Tommygunn, check your warranty, hopefully they improved it since they nailed me.

 

[seasmoke]

Tommygunn, if I understand your problem there may be a simple solution. Grab the BCG by the guide tube and insert it backwards into the receiver. It will stop when the locked rollers hit the sides. Pull back a bit and then give a good shove. This should un-lock the rollers. Hope this helps.

 

[Tommygunn]

The rollers aren't locked. When I take the locking piece out of the bolt the rollers move in and out freely.
The problem is between the bolt and the carrier .... but I haven't the foggiest idea what went wrong.
Maybe your solution wil work for freeing the bolt, seasmoke. No harm in giving it a try.

 

[barnbwt]

check your warranty, hopefully they improved it since they nailed me

No, still the dumbest warranty around. Don't swear off Century, though; I've been happy enough with my VZ2008, though it's no D-Technik (have both). It cost about 1/3 as much, but is still 80% as good

barnbwt, when the BCG is outside the gun, the two pieces are locked up tight against each other. Do you know what ca

That's due to the "brilliance" of the allegedly genius Germanic/Spaniard arms alliance that makes the best gun designs ever (lotta folks think the HK roller guns are the bees knees; I disagree). There is a part called a "pawl spring" that could probably out-do combustion engine valve springs in stiffness, that drives an extractor-looking lever visible on the side of the carrier against the side of the bolt. The idea was to add even more resistance to the action as it unlocked, since the whole machine was honestly undersized for 308 (was originally meant for a weaker intermediate 280 Brit type round). It worked, but you have this nasty tendency for the bolt head to 'snap' back down onto the carrier when they are removed from the gun. You can either pull on the bolt head really hard while pushing in the rollers (I'm talking like 70lbs, here) if you've got strong hands, or you can drop the assembly backwards into the receiver, which will force the rollers back in and the bolt head back off the carrier.

It's confusing, since the stiff spring makes it seem like a rigid interference, and since I believe you can remove the bolt in either the locked or unlocked position. You need to be able to push the rollers in freely when the bolt/carrier are removed, or you can't get them back in the gun.

"but this will be my last dealing with Century"
Word to the wise;
-HK Roller guns (they've been getting better, very recently)
-Older and cheap AKs (especially Galils)
-MAS 49/56 308 conversions

Run do not walk from these unless you really know what to look for. Otherwise, the worst they generally do is get front sights on crooked and put gawdawful import marks on historical items.

TCB

 

[Slamfire]

That's due to the "brilliance" of the allegedly genius Germanic/Spaniard arms alliance that makes the best gun designs ever (lotta folks think the HK roller guns are the bees knees; I disagree).

I am a Bees Kneeier I guess I think the roller bolts are just excellent military rifles. Quick to build, easy to maintain, reliable. I am of the opinion that these were made to be built fast and not to rebuild. I think the Germans took a look at the amount of money and manpower it takes to run rebuild lines and decided it made more sense to just build new ones fast. Not to say the roller bolts can't be rebuilt once the barrel is shot out. Just, I don't think it was designed with that in mind. The Germans lost Armies in Russia. Total Armies and their equipment, I read a fantastic number on the industrial effort lost when the German Army was lost at Stalingrad. It was huge.

This utube video is just excellent on these things. You can see the bolt bounce, which explains the incredible stiff springs in my PTR 91. The HK91 was obviously an improvement over the war time rifles and the things are still in front line service. That is pretty good.


Last Ditch Innovation: The Development of the Gerat 06 and Gerat 06H Rifles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEPwmYcCPFs

 

[Numeric]

I ordered some PMAG G3 magazines from Cabela's since I like their AR-15 mags. When I got them I found out that while the mags fit, the locking tab on the rifle (which is not unlike the AR-15 type, is not the same as on the PMAGS! The lockhole was MADE TOO SMALL! I don't know what gives with that, but it was annoying! Are there two kinds of G3 magazines out there? Why can't PMAG make 'em right? BEWARE OF PMAG G3 MAGS!

Magpul doesn't make a PMAG magazine compatible with the G3; they make a magazine for .308-cailber AR rifles with Knight's Armament SR25-pattern magazine wells. The only company I can think of currently selling polymer G3 magazines in the US is Thermold.

 

[Kame B.]

Century Arms?!? LMFAO

 

[Tommygunn]

Tommygunn, if I understand your problem there may be a simple solution. Grab the BCG by the guide tube and insert it backwards into the receiver. It will stop when the locked rollers hit the sides. Pull back a bit and then give a good shove. This should un-lock the rollers. Hope this helps.

Ok, tried this. No joy. It does cause the bolt to release from the carrier, but it simply locks up again when reinserted correctly.
It is going back to Century.