Cali MicroStamping - Status?

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rbernie

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There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth (and rightfully so) when Da Governator signed the California 'micro-stamping' bill into law. IIRC, the law was to take effect in '09 or '10. Many folk predicted a wave of lawsuits from the firearms industry, citing the inability of the technology to work and the capriciousness of the law's wording.

I've done a few searches here, and can't seem to find any follow-up status. So what is going on WRT the micro-stamping laws in Cali?
 
Don't know about CA, but Kennedy has introduced federal legislation requiring the same...

http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/48742529_kennedy-becerra-introduce-gun-microstamping-legisl

February 7, 2008 -- WASHINGTON, DC— Today, Senator Edward M. Kennedy and Congressman Xavier Becerra introduced the National Crime Gun Identification Act of 2007. The measure is co-sponsored in the Senate by Senators Feinstein, Menendez, Lautenberg, Durbin, Schumer and Reed.

The bill amends the current law by prohibiting licensed federal firearms dealers from manufacturing, importing, or transferring certain semi-automatic pistols that are not capable of micro-stamping ammunition. Micro-stamping ammunition is an important and effective method of tracing guns, and provides law enforcement with a much-needed resource in solving crimes.

The legislation is supported by the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, the U.S. Conference of Mayors, the Honorable Thomas M. Menino, Mayor of Boston, the Boston Police Department, and the Honorable Gregory Nickles, Mayor of Seattle.

In Boston, Mayor Menino has worked hard to identify every tool and resource available to use in the fight against gun violence. He has filed similar legislation with the Massachusetts General Court to require guns sold in the Commonwealth to be equipped with microstamping technology.

Senator Kennedy said, “Congress should be quick to support emerging technologies that enable law enforcement to make more effective use of evidence at crime scenes. We have a clear responsibility to do all we can to supply police officers and investigators with the most technologically advanced means to solve these horrific crimes. Gun violence is a serious threat to public safety in every community in America. We have an opportunity with this legislation to show that we value the lives of every citizen and will use the best technology available to stop the violence.”

“Gun microstamping is a simple and effective technology that promises to save lives and keep violent criminals off the streets,” Rep. Becerra said. “It is inexpensive for gun manufacturers to implement, does not infringe on personal gun ownership rights, and provides a powerful investigative tool to our law enforcement officers. I look forward to working with my dear friend, Senator Kennedy, to get this common-sense legislation enacted into law.”

Mayor Menino said, "In Boston, we are working hard to identify every tool and resource available to use in our fight against gun violence. Micro-stamping will clearly define where illegal guns are coming from -- allowing us to be more effective in our efforts to get illegal guns off the street and shut down illegal gun dealers. We applaud Senator Kennedy's leadership on this issue and hope the Congress moves forward with its passage quickly."

We'll see.
 
Micro-stamping ammunition is an important and effective method of tracing guns, and provides law enforcement with a much-needed resource in solving crimes.

thats funny right there, i don't care who you are. Do people actually believe this BS?

How do people this stupid rise to serve in public office? how do they keep getting elected is probably a better question.
 
thats funny right there, i don't care who you are. Do people actually believe this BS?

How do people this stupid rise to serve in public office? how do they keep getting elected is probably a better question.
They know it's not true - the DoJ's own technology dept told them so.

We all agree that micro-stamping doesn't work. The question is - what is the status of the impending law in CA?
 
Haven't seen much activity over at CalGuns Forum on it for a bit.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=125

Maybe Henry Bowman can chime in with what he knows, thinks or has heard (or any other Calgun member in the know).

I couldn't find any recent news doing google or yahoo searches and the few firearms types I talked to at SHOT didn't know anything about it (but I was only talking to lower level display floor types, not suits or mfg attorney types).
 
It passed and was signed by the Governor (apparently against the advice of his staff on the merits, but to make some political point of his own).

It's scheduled to go into effect in 2010; there is some reasonable speculation that the language of the law regarding use of patented technology might be a serious barrier to ever actually implementing.

Link to bill docs.
 
The CA microstamping law indeed passed.

In CA, fortunately it's likely unimplementable (or at least for 20+ years) because it depends on proprietary patented technology, and the law takes that into account. Some friendly legislator got some friendly language in. I believe there are some legislators+ staffers that may have to vote antigun but will put in 'special language' to achieve at least marginally gun-favorable end results. That's the way the game has to be played here in CA sometimes.

BUT...

That being said, we shot ourselves in the foot because of an "alternate gun organization", GOC (Gun Owners of California, run by the idiot Sam Paredes).

The Governator signed these bills as 'bite back' because GOC's Sam Paredes forced a bit of drama during bill signing season regarding a condor-protection/ lead ammo bill. Paredes got a friendly legislator to force the gov to boot a Fish & Game Commisioner right near the time the lead ammo bill was up for signing, along with a bunch of other way-more-important stuff going on (budget, etc.) So he boots F&G commissioner as appeasement to 'get things done' on a variety of legislative matters, but has a long memory and ends up signing the bills later as "don't f*k with me" gesture.

Right before Paredes' nonsense, we had info that gov's legislative analysis staff was recommending against signing for a variety of practical and political reasons. Paredes stirred up drama where it wasn't welcome and at the wrong time for an ego trip to get one F&G commissioner pushed out - winning a trivial battle to go lose the far bigger war. The governor burned gunnies because at his level he doesn't know the difference between NRA, GOC, CRPA etc - all he knows is "some gun people" caused him grief, and in the political world, grief = payback.

The whole political background of CA's passage of AB821 (lead ammo/condor bill) and AB1471 (microstamping) is discussed on Calguns.

Original Calguns discussion of the GOC-driven clusterfudge on the lead ammo bill & microstamping:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=73228


GOC's Sam Paredes non-direct, non-responsive non-rebuttal to me (as well as others), my counterresponse, further discussion thereof, and including Wes @ TenPercentFirearm's excellent timeline analysis of GOC's actions vs. legislative calendar, and how the whole clusterfudge was choreographed:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=74140


I and many other Calgunners now regard GOC as a de facto anti-gun organization - due to its negative results regardless of stated position. GOC is a private business with no staff elected by any membership, so f**kups can't be punished, nor can the organization be re-steered.

Hell, at this point I'd be happy if GOC would just take people's money and **** - or even give it to the Bradys! Outright fraud would be preferable to GOC's recent behavior.

GOC has not sponsored any useful CA legislation (i.e, stuff that can be passed) nor, with the exception of one person a few years ago, helped defeat any antigunner or reelect a progunner. (Sure, they back some winners in safe seats but GOC did not change the outcome.)

In fact, GOC actively drove some stupid legislation that - while on the surface might 'fix' some of CA's bad assault weapons laws (AB2218), actually would end up creating dangerous 'constructive possession' matters for AW-related matters. [Lack of constructive possession in CA's AW laws lets us at least enjoy modified 'off-list' rifles with special grips or fixed mags.]

I also have several reports of GOC-affiliated folks going to gun shows and actively pulling people away from NRA signup booths and diverting them to GOC memberships instead.




Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
 
Magical Marks-A-Lot of Mayhem

Let me play devils advocate here for a minute...

It's 2010, all major handgun mfgs went along w/ the microstamping process for all new handguns since CA is such a large marketshare. But it's TOO expensive to only include that feature in handguns earmarked for sale in CA, thus ALL new firearms have em (that Centennial 1911 model mfg by Colt, Kimber, Springfield, S&W, Wilson, Baer, Brown, et al, that you plan on buying has got to comply as well). Beretta, Glock, SIGSAUER, HK, etc... ALL mfg's now incorporate this new age wizardry.

Let us say that it only adds $50 per unit to price. Let us also say that it in no way interferes with reliable operation or accuracy.

Assume those givens for a minute.

Points for discussion (I'm sure that the CA assembly and the Governator discussed these points):

A. Will it stop crime? (We all know this answer)

B. Help solve crime? (be sure to police your brass, each and every piece, each and every range outing. wouldn't want jimmy gangbanger leaving some of my brass around the scene of his next drive by to "confuse" the issue and raise reasonable doubt, now would I?)

C. What if I reload and use several different 9mms/.40's/.45's, etc, as my shootin' tools? (thus leaving the mark of each new handgun somewhere on the brass)

D. How long will the "old" non-stamping guns be allowed, let alone wheelguns?

E. Database issues. Who sets it up? Who keeps the data? Who pays for all this "safety"? (I think we all know the answer to the last question)

F. Once gov't learns how "unworkable" it is, that "crime" has not magically stopped (or gotten worse yet due to the plethora of stolen pre-mark-o-the-devil handguns) how soon before they insist that ALL new firearms share in this wonder of wonders, this "magical marks-a-lot of mayhem"?

G. And since this is America, where we create wealth out of thin air... how do I make some of the money bound to be spent in the process of doing nothing, but sounding like govt is doing something?

H. How soon before someone defeats it or bypasses it using simple tools and goes to prison as a result?


OK Back to reality. It would be nice to read some thoughts from some of the learned essayists here at THR and/or professional gunwriting scribes/legal scholar types, all of whom I'm sure can ask better questions or who can delve deeper into the crystal ball of this future firearms registration device.
 
Reminder to go to range pick up brass and use in illegal activity. Come on CA do you really think stamping is gonna fix anything? If they cant figure it out now what makes them think they can figure it out later. Just cant stand stupid.
 
Gangster's response to microstamping:

1. Buy ammo out of state
2. Steal your ammo (why not? the gun's probably stolen anyway)
3. Use a revolver
4. Use a shotgun
5. Collect empties and "seed" a crime scene

Someone wake me up when there is a successful prosecution under this idiotic law.... :barf:
 
Gangbangers don't even know the law passed. They won't care - most of them use whatever ammo is in the gun when it's stolen. The only crime this will "solve" will be featured on Dominic Dunns "Power, Priviledge and Justice), as some neurotic richie guns down his maid with his microstamped gold plated SiGP210.
 
Microstampming allows them to prove that a gun was at the scene, maybe??

It will not tell them who was holding and firing the gun, which is what you need for a conviction. You cant arrest or jail guns, guns dont commit crimes.

If you have witnesses microstamping is worthless in court.
Ifr you have no witnesses, microstamping is still worthless in court.
 
not to mention that UC Davis I belive called the state and that bills pushers on the fact that the technology doesnt even exist to make it plausible, and they signed it anyway.

If this passes on a federal level, there will be de facto handgun registration nationwide. Think about it, how else are they going to figure out who owns the gun that threw that brass.

Then the next step is everything micro stamped and everything registered. No FTF transfers anymore, because the data has to be changed in the computer. Cali type DROS transfers, at a bargain of $35.00 a pop.

Then the next step is firing pin inspections to verify compliance. Non compliance results in a charge that ensures that you wont ever legally own firearms again.

and on, and on and on, till there are no guns left.

Just my opinion.
 
How does that Tool song about Cali go?


"Learn to swim learn to swim learn to swim... cause I'm praying for tidal waves...fret for your prozac and fret for your pilot and fret for your latte and fret for your hairpiece and fret for lawsuit..."


or something like that.
 
Not that the legislators care, but ...

At least on the first pass, the bills seem to exclude
  • rifles
  • shotguns
  • revolvers
  • any existing semi-automatic pistol

For each of your potential-victim states, calculate how many of those there are already; none of those will be leaving micro-stamped cases behind.

Assume for discussion
  • firearms have a lifetime of 100 years
  • the rate of new firearm acquisition remains the same
  • the mix of rifles, shotguns, revolvers, pistols acquired remains the same
  • only pistols that micro-stamp ejected cases will be legal to purchase in your state
  • some people actually will buy pistols that micro-stamp ejected cases
Calculate at what point 1/10 of existing firearms will micro-stamp ejected cartridges. (Hint: effectively never.)

Assume further
  • legislators are told all of this
  • some legislators are not complete idiots
  • the bill passes anyway
Q: Is the bill at all connected to public safety or solving crimes?


Q: Know the difference between a rifle and a handgun?
A: A hacksaw
 
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