California handgun law questions

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Ian

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I have a friend who is just interested in shooting, and he's asked me some questions I don't know the answers to. I'm hoping some of you folks can help me out.

He lives in California, but has vacation property in Arizona. All his ID stuff (driving license, income tax, etc) is in California. Still, since he does reside in both state, I think he legally qualifies as a resident of both. Could he purchase a handgun in Arizona, and if so, would he need to get some sort of Arizona ID first?

If he did get a pistol in Arizona, what would be inivolved in taking it back to California when he goes? What guns does California allow in, and would he have to register it with the cops?
 
This is definitely 'call a real lawyer' time. Dual state residency is not for the faint of heart.

An Arizona FFL would absolutely need to see proof of Arizona residency to deliver a firearm in AZ; for a resident of a different state, in this case CA, the purchase has to go through a California FFL, with waiting period, DROS, and delivery to the buyer in CA.
 
He lives in California, but has vacation property in Arizona. All his ID stuff (driving license, income tax, etc) is in California. Still, since he does reside in both state, I think he legally qualifies as a resident of both. Could he purchase a handgun in Arizona, and if so, would he need to get some sort of Arizona ID first?
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I am not an expert in these matters, or an FFL. However I know you can only be a resident in one location officially, as most states have that as a rule. So from what I can see here, he is claiming Cali as his "official" residence. He needs to "move" to AZ.

Also why wouldn't he do that anyway?
 
I have several friends living in one state with a second residence in another state. They typically travel several times a year, on business or vacation, to their second home, and spend up to two to three months there (cumulatively). They've all taken the step of getting a State-issued identification card in their "secondary" states, while keeping their drivers licenses, etc. in their "primary" state. This means that they do have proof of residence in the "secondary" State if they want to buy a firearm, conduct any sort of legal transaction, etc. It's quite legal, AFAIK, as they're not duplicating one form of ID in more than one State.
 
Q: "May a person who resides in one state and owns property in another state purchase a handgun in either state?"

A: "If a person maintains a home in 2 states and resides in both states for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular state, purchase a handgun in that state. But simply owning property in another state does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that state."

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b13
 
Thanks, guys. Does anyone know what the process is for briniging a pistol into California? I tried findinig out through the CA AG's site, but justt go glazed eyeballs. :banghead:

It looks like he would have to go register with the local cops, but would they require a safety certificate, or proof of owning a gunsafe, or fingerprints, or something what?
 
Here is the answer on the CA DOJ web page:

Q: I am moving into California and I own several handguns. What are the new-resident registration requirements?

A: You are considered to be a personal handgun importer as defined by California law. You may bring all of your otherwise California-legal firearms with you, but you must report all of your handguns to the DOJ within 60 days as required utilizing the New Resident Handgun Ownership Report. You are not required to report rifles or shotguns. You may not bring ammunition feeding devices with a capacity greater than ten rounds, machineguns, or assault weapons into California.

(PC sections 12001(n), 12072(f)(2))

Follow this link and select "New Resident Handgun Ownership Report", the 4th one down:

http://www.caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms
 
The only thing i could find applies to new residents.

www.caag.state.ca.us/firearms/ab991.htm

I don't think this would apply to a current resident.

Any handgun imported into California must be on the "Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale", unless it is considered a C&R, and must be handeled by a FFL dealer. This includes new and used handguns.

It gets confusing real fast.
 
Any handgun imported into California must be on the "Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale", unless it is considered a C&R, and must be handeled by a FFL dealer. This includes new and used handguns.
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Not true. Handguns can be personally brought into the state without going through a dealer. The approved handguns list only applies to dealer sales.
 
Not true. Handguns can be personally brought into the state without going through a dealer. The approved handguns list only applies to dealer sales.
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Well, EOD Guy, CA DOJ doesn't agree with you, unfortunately. Check the FAQ cited above.

While you can transfer, face-to-face, guns not on the approved list, you can't import them. Believe me when I say, I've tried. I've been trying to get Colt Delta Elite's and Remington XP-100's into the state every which way, and it can't be done without being a LEO with an understanding and flexible department.
 
Well, EOD Guy, CA DOJ doesn't agree with you, unfortunately. Check the FAQ cited above.
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Sorry, but DOJ and the law both agree with me, although we may be talking about two different things. The FAQ above says nothing about handguns having to be on the list. It only says they have to California legal (i.e., no threaded barrels).

I was referring to someone hand carrying the handguns into California, not someone trying to import them through a dealer. If a person moves into California, there is no restriction on the type of hand gun that can be imported, other than being California legal. That person can then register the firearms and is free to make private party sales through a dealer if they so choose.
 
CA "Citizenship"

For those recommending getting state ID cards, lemme state: Fat Chance. Just about every state ties these in with Driver Licenses. You can have one, or the other, but not both. And, what they really don't want is you having one while having a DL from another state. I've tried.

Now on to the question at hand.

Technically, CA DOJ would most likely consider your gun purchases to be restricted by CA law. This would be in spite of the fact you made the purchases using your AZ residence.

I know the ATF says it's legal, but would you trust the CA DOJ?

Now, speaking from experience, (mine, BTW) even though the ATF would allow this, you might have troubles finding an FFL who would participate. IOW, you can show proof substantiating residence, tax bills, utility bills or whatever, for a handgun purchase, most FFLs still want to see local state ID.

Also, I would assume the CA DOJ would really rather not see it's "citizens" purchase "unapproved" firearms, assault weapons or, worse yet, NFA restricted weapons even if the purchaser's intentions were to never bring them to CA.

So, the answer is:

Form an AZ corporation using the AZ address. The corporation owns the weapons and in the case of NFA weapons, there's no need for CLEO sign-off either... :) Also, the CA DOJ would no longer have a say in the matter.

I've yet to do this so I dunno how one does a 4473 for this, but it is (so far) still legal with the ATF.

Of course IANAL and other applicable d
isclaimers apply.
 
For those recommending getting state ID cards, lemme state: Fat Chance. Just about every state ties these in with Driver Licenses. You can have one, or the other, but not both. And, what they really don't want is you having one while having a DL from another state. I've tried.
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No problem. I've got both a California driver's license and an Arizona ID card. (I live approximately 2 months out of the year in Arizona.) Also, when I was in the military and stationed in California, I had both a Nevada driver's license (my legal residence) and a California ID card (to establish local address).


Now, speaking from experience, (mine, BTW) even though the ATF would allow this, you might have troubles finding an FFL who would participate.
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I've had no problems with purchasing in Arizona, although I've only bought three firearms there in the last 5 years.

Also, I would assume the CA DOJ would really rather not see it's "citizens" purchase "unapproved" firearms, assault weapons or, worse yet, NFA restricted weapons even if the purchaser's intentions were to never bring them to CA.
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I've only brought one handgun back into California. I registered it with DOJ within the prescribed time frame and received an acknowledgement from DOJ.

I did check with both BATF and California DOJ before purchasing in Arizona while I resided there and neither had a problem with it. California DOJ did state that it would not consider quick trips across the border or weekends sufficient to be considered "temporary residence" for the purpose of firearms transactions. In other words, "No cheating!"
 
YMMV, I guess

EOD Guy, I'm relating personal experience with trying to obtain state IDs in several different states because I've owned residences in those states.

In every case, I've been refused. I'm happy for you and your success at this.

What's been my experience is it is much easier to obtain a driver license than a state ID card. I currently have a DL in a state where I was refused a state ID card. I've no real address there and furthermore am generally disinclined to have a Driver License in a state I actually reside in. I've a passel of motorcyles registered there, however (cheap).

Unlike you I've no militarty reason/exemption for ID because it's been more than several decades since I escaped that servitude.

Finally, for handgun purchases from an FFL, I actually have been refused on occasion regardless of my residence and proof there of in that state. This is while having valid ID from another state but prooveable local residence.

Long guns are no problem, just handguns.
 
If he's just visiting, ie not liveing in the Nazi-Liberal state of CA, he's good, gotta be out of reach and unloaded.

If you move to CA, you have to register hand guns with in 60 days. No registration on out of state long guns.

No "black sporting rifles" AR15's, AK's or any variant (unless you're military :D).

Playing Dumb in CA, will get your stuff taken away, and a court date where you find out that you're a felon, and worse than any kind of scum you could dream up roaming the streets of West Holly Wood.
 
In terms of establishing residence, wouldn't the place he's registered to vote have some bearing on the matter? (Please don't tell me he's registered to vote in more than one state! :eek: )
 
In terms of establishing residence, wouldn't the place he's registered to vote have some bearing on the matter? (Please don't tell me he's registered to vote in more than one state! )
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We are not talking legal residence here but residence sufficient to purchase firearms. This depends on both Federal and State law. It is possible to be a resident of three different states at the same time for the purpose of obtaining firearms, plus you can have temporary residence at a vacation home, for instance. Be careful though. Just owning property in another state is not sufficient. You actually have to live there part of the year.

An example the BATF gave involves a military member stationed at Ft Campbell, KY. Ft Campbell extends over two states, Kentucky and Tennessee. BATF considers the member a resident of both states. In addition, the service member could have their legal residence in a third state.
 
you know, I purchased 2 stripped AR-15 recievers when I was in MO, in June, took about 5 min to have the paper work called in, and I was on my way. and I'm a Minnesota resident, who brought the "black guns" to CA.

I know guys that are legal residence of CA that went to AZ guns shows and bought 4 DPMS lower AR15 recievers for $75 each and went on thier marry way back to CA.

Before I picked up my AR15's, I was calling around to gun stores in AZ and they all told me I had to be a resident of AZ or have military orders.
 
Legal there, not so here

What you did was generally legal in Minnesota and Missouri.

I think one still is supposed to get a "permit" to purchase an "assault" rifle from their CLEO in Minnesota which is also required for handguns. Most of the rest of the states don't have anything like that. So, by being a Minnesota resident, you might have strayed into some gray area of federal law.

However, bringing the lowers into CA is most likely not legal.

They've a special type of lower that's legal in CA. The magwell is closed off and is made into a magazine that must be loaded from the top.

So beware.
 
Im in the same position

All you would have to do is get an Arizona ID..not DL,keep your cali DL ..the only thing is the Arizona ID can not be a p.o. box...been there done that...moved back to America(Arizona) from a country called California..now my particular job I need a Cali DL.so I Take money from cali and bring it back to where i live in AZ..
AZ just requires an ID not a DL..
 
you know, I purchased 2 stripped AR-15 recievers when I was in MO, in June, took about 5 min to have the paper work called in, and I was on my way. and I'm a Minnesota resident, who brought the "black guns" to CA.

I know guys that are legal residence of CA that went to AZ guns shows and bought 4 DPMS lower AR15 recievers for $75 each and went on thier marry way back to CA.
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Importing any AR-15 lower into the State of California by any means other than through a licensed FFL who has their assault weapons permit is plainly illegal. I wouldn't brag about importing any type of AR-15 into the state at any time on a public forum. And yes I understand even through a FFL you need a LEO letter or some other special hoop, but that is sort of my point. If you can get an AR-15 through an FFL into the PRK, the FFL is going to fry too, so go ahead. I am about to get my FFL and no evil black guns for any of my customers, unless they want a FAB-10 or a SU-16.
 
It was wondered.."I think one still is supposed to get a "permit" to purchase an "assault" rifle from their CLEO in Minnesota which is also required for handguns"

Nope. You do not need any purchase permit in MN for an "assault rifle" as there is not any prohibition against evil looking guns in MN.
 
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