California Legal Firearms?

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ripcurlksm

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Is it legal for citizens to own a semi automatic M-16 or similar carbine as long as it has a magazine under 10 rounds? Is it okay as long as its not fully auto? I dont see what the difference is between this and a high power rifle with a small magazine. I am starting to get the itch to get another gun, as I already have a good handgun and shotgun and a good rifle is in order. An M-16 sounds like it would be a lot of fun, but if I cant get it I will be looking at the .308 Steyr Scout or a 30-06

Anyone in the know if semi-auto M-16 or other similar carbines are legal in CA?
 
M16 is impossible

calguns forum will give you the scoop on other stuff.
CA is a bastion of common sense compared to NJ
 
in CA formula is such:

Rifle with a removable magazine cannot have a "pistol grip". ie. M14 & M1 carbine, etc..

Rifle with "pistol grip" can only have a non-detachable magazine. uhh... yeah very lame.:scrutiny:
 
Please do come over to Calguns.net - we have lots of info. But the summary is: if it looks cool and you want it, the state does not want you to have it.

Whether they can make that work is another story.

A real Colt AR is a by-name banned California 'assault weapon', so you can't have that, except there's this little window which has opened up as of today...
 
Are these still legal in CA?

Well, I dunno.

That looks like it might have something you could call a pistol grip. And the barrel's too short.

Denied.
 
Can I keep my SKS if and when I move back to Cali? How about the ruger 10/22's with 25 round mag?
Depends.

SKS with detachable magazine is a California 'assault weapon'; with the plain wood stock and fixed 10-round internal magazine, it should be ok. There are some subtleties here...

No 25-round mags - 10 rounds or fewer, unless you owned them instate on or before Dec 31, 1999.
 
Can I keep my SKS if and when I move back to Cali? How about the ruger 10/22's with 25 round mag?

Simple answer is no. In CA a magazine cannot hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. Kinda removes most of the fun of a .22, high capacity inexpensive rapid plinking. Importing a magazine that holds over 10 rounds is akin to importing an 'assault magazine' and is a felony. Only people that had such magazines before a 12/31/99 can own them and they cannot be transfered to someone else.

The SKS is currently being heavily frowned upon because it is affordable and too close to becoming full auto (even by accident when the firing pin sticks), as well as being similar to the evil AK. So while currently legal there is lots of bickering about changing that.

Anything with a pistol grip and detachable mag is banned. A detachable mag and one of the other evil features is banned. A rifle under 30 inches is banned as an assault rifle.

If it is not banned according to one of these things then you must check a large list of banned items without these features to make sure it was not manualy banned at some point. The list is huge.

Are these still legal in CA?

Wow for giggles I looked up the legality of slingshots in response to zoom6zoom's likely sarcastic question. They are not legal in much of the state.

§ 4300 Permit Required.
No person except a duly elected or appointed peace officer shall carry concealed upon or about his person any revolver, pistol, dagger, dirk, or sling shot, billy or other deadly weapon or instrument without first having obtained a written permit from the Sheriff of Los Angeles County. (Ord. 70-133, § 4300)
1.57 Firearms, Air Guns, and Other Weapons
No person other than peace officers in the discharge of their duties shall use, maintain, possess,
fire, or discharge any firearm, air gun, spring gun, bow and arrow, slingshot, or any other weapon
potentially dangerous to wildlife or human safety, except in areas, at times, and under conditions
designated by the Administrator for such use. A violation of the provisions of this section is a
misdemeanor. (Enacted July 6, 2004.) (another law for a recreational park system.

Possession, while on the college campus or at an on or off-campus college-sponsored function, of any of the following weapons (except persons given permission by the college President or his/her designated representatives or members of the law enforcement agencies, as police officers); any instrument or weapon of any kind commonly known as blackjack, sling shot, fire bomb, billy club, sand club, sandbag, metal knuckles; any dirk, dagger, firearm (loaded or unloaded), as pistol, revolver, rifle, etc.; any knife having a blade longer than five inches, any switchblade longer than two inches, any razor with an unguarded blade; any metal pipe or bar used or intended to be used as a club; or any item used to threaten bodily harm.
For schools and universities. This list does not include what is otherwise already banned according to state weapon laws.

So no a sling shot is not generaly and broadly legal in CA, only in designated areas not otherwise restricting it's use. Concealing it is carrying a concealed weapon. Pointing it at someone/shooting it is assault with a deadly weapon. 'Sling shot' and 'slung shot' also get confused and have the same laws written for both when they are quite different. In fact the above laws were transplanted from state law with that single letter change (probably a law maker with a spellcheck changing the law). Slung shot is an improvised swung club, like a sock with soap in it, or a roll of coins etc.

1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

Taken from the 12020 laws of CA, a violation of which is a felony. The section goes into further detail of the definition of each, some of which are quite broad and encompass a vast number of items. For example just about any item be it a stick or broom handle or metal pipe intended for use as a weapon constitutes a 'billy' which possession of in this state is a felony. A leaded cane for example includes any cane wieghted by lead or wighted by any other means to be heavier. The list goes on and on, violation of any of which legaly makes you a felon in the state of CA, and there after a felon of the USA. These are not carry laws, these are possession laws which include even your home.
 
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Funny, there have been, in the last year, from about 15 manufacturers(maybe more) an estimated 35 to 40K, (thats Thousand) AR15 "type" lower receivers sold in the state of CA.

Here, read it again^^^^^^


BELIEVE!
 
I think harsh language is still legal here.

The SKS is currently being heavily frowned upon...

I'm really surprised we can get SKS's and M1A's.
 
I'm really surprised we can get SKS's and M1A's...

whisper that....our new house speaker may have an open meeting behind closed doors

wolf
 
Funny, there have been, in the last year, from about 15 manufacturers(maybe more) an estimated 35 to 40K, (thats Thousand) AR15 "type" lower receivers sold in the state of CA.

The lowers are not banned unless listed by name, however assembling them into an AR is illegal unless the magazine is not detachable. The way they are getting around the law is by making 'permanently' attached 10 round magazines that require you to split open the firearm to load. The DOJ is currently finding a way to ban this practice without declaring them assault rifles which would allow people that register them to then modify them into whatever 'assault rifle' configuration afterwards. They want to ban it because the 'permanent' magazines are not always so permanent and can be converted into normal AR rifles (although this is illegal and an AR lower with a detached magazine if said lower has a pistol grip is an assault weapon, even if the magazine is detached during assembly. In fact there is a specific order in which to put together and disassemble such a rifle to not at any point be in possession of an illegal assault weapon.)

Many people have bought them hoping to be able to register them as assault rifles when they are banned and then convert them into a fully functional semi auto rifle with any evil feature they want. The DOJ and attorney general are aware of this and are not banning them as assault weapons and are instead finding a way to ban them in such a way as those in possession of them will not be able to become the legal owner of an assault weapon and enjoy all the freedoms a so declared weapon has.
 
Thats generally correct, except a detachable mag AR(OLL) is legal if it doesn't have the listed/named evil features.
 
Moved from the Republik of California

I moved from the police state of California to New Mexico because of the idiotic gun laws. I am a firearms instructor and as such have to posess and shoot several different tactical firearms to include quite a few California doesn't think anyone but celebrities should own.....btw, Californias gun laws do not seem to apply to those in the celebrity ranks! I have trained a few celebs body gaurds who have Uzis, and MP5's! Basically what I am saying is ther has to be a way to get certain firearms that are "illegal" because some there do it. I know one can get special compensation form the Governer, but I don't know how one would go about doing this.
 
btw, Californias gun laws do not seem to apply to those in the celebrity ranks! I have trained a few celebs body gaurds who have Uzis, and MP5's! Basically what I am saying is ther has to be a way to get certain firearms that are "illegal" because some there do it. I know one can get special compensation form the Governer, but I don't know how one would go about doing this.
There is exceptions for businesses to own, and for certain professions to carry weapons owned by those businesses while they are on the clock "within the scope of thier duties". These businesses must maintain certain records, make a certain profit as a business, and the weapons belong to the business and not any individual, meaning that they must be stored in a certain manner with the business and if the business loses its license, goes bankrupt etc the weapons must be liquidated or disposed of in accordance to the law. This means they never belong to any private individual.

Any legal business must show profit and pay taxes on that profit. The professions listed as legaly allowed to carry firearms are few and you can find much of them on the listed in the 12020-120_ _ section of CA penal code.
So yes CA does allow under very limited cirumstances for companies such as private security to go through a lot of paperwork to allow thier employees access to such weaponry. However such a business is liable for any and all actions and lawsuits arising from actions of thier employees while they are performign duties for the company. So this is a serious deterent for the executives making the decision about what arms are carried to go through the extra work for "machine guns" to be carried by employees.

The procedures and limitations are so numerous as to make it only worthwhile and cost and time effecient for banks and certain high profit security (such as those catering to rich and famous) corporations to go through the hassle. Spend a couple days researching every firearm exception (most of which only apply to peace officers and military personel) in the CA codes and you will find the dozens of laws that a good attorney can use to allow corporate possession of machine guns.

Trying to twist these laws to allow yourself private use or possession is both illegal and cost prohibitive.
A actual business would take a long time before you had any type of reputation to compete with those already in the little niche of catering to the high end rich clients where such weaponry is legal. Or you could create a bank, or armored car transport service, but the weapons would still only be legal while in use in the scope of your duties if they are machine guns.

The easiest legal way to own such weapons would be to become a company catering to Hollywood and the motion picture industry where lots of props are required in movies. However loading them with real rounds would be against the law.

Any business that you have machine guns in will be open to inspection both by agents representing CA and the ATF as you will also have to complete class 3 NFA paperwork for a business, not just a private individual.

These places however can aquire modern class 3 weapons and are not limited to the civilian private posession market. Meaning that in accordance with the laws you can import weapons for use as a business involved in law enforcement.
The ATF will be watching you closely as will CA and you better renew and stay up to date with all paperwork if you don't want hostile treatment with such a business.

Basicly you are better off just moving out of state and aquiring NFA items as an individual if they are that important to you to legaly aquire.

However I am NOT a lawyer qualified to give you legal advice and if you were going to consider this option you better hire at least one full time. I do not claim to be an expert, nor to have spent enough time and research to understand the procedures completely.
 
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Get an M1A rifle in .308 for California. It is less questionable than any AR15 "loophole" guns. Plenty of legal 10-rd magazines to use in CA. You may even have a few of those 20-rd magazines left over from when you bought them in 1986 during a trip to Disneyland and which you left in your rental property...
 
I second that.

Get a M1A or SOCOM.. best thing we got going in Cali. They're a little pricey.. but they're worth it. If you go over to calguns, youll notice people building AR's with the priciest parts possible.. and then they end up with an expensive gimped gun.

If you get a M1A or SOCOM, you'll have a fully functional and completely legal magazine-fed, semi-auto rifle
 
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Do the M1A or SOCOM have detachable mags?

You better believe they do! :D
I honestly dont know how the gun-grabbers missed these when they enacted the AW Ban. I been trying to get my friends to get one before gun-grabbers figure it out.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-socom.shtml
SOCOM16.jpg

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-m1a-stan.shtml
2001-products-rifles-standard.jpg


Keep in mind, those are pictured with 20rd mags. You can only have the 10 rounders in Cali... (unless you happened to own 20rd M-14 mags before the ban in 2000)
 
Last I hear these AR receivers were still California legal. But remember, no mags larger than 10rnd unless owned before 2000. I also agree with others that suggest you save up for an M1A or SOCOM.

newgrip.gif


Isn't it amazing how a pistol grip turns a legal sporting rifle into a detestable baby killing machine of mass destruction. You got to love lefty logic. :barf:
 
Isn't it amazing how a pistol grip turns a legal sporting rifle into a detestable baby killing machine of mass destruction. You got to love lefty logic.

Answered my question before I could ask it. I was gonna ask: How about fabricating a different, non-pistol grip for an AR?

Josh
 
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