Called the police yesterday

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I am not a lawyer, but I would make a bet that damaging someone's propertly falls under vandalism, or destruction of property or some such thing. There's no instant immunity if your car is on private property.


And if you want to stay safe, stay away from Walmart parking lots, they tend to attact the most dangerous of derelicts. :fire:
 
So...It's perfectly legal to hit someones car on private property?
Sure. Why not? Again, I am not a lawyer, so don't take my word for it, but...

Unless someone hit your car on purpose or with the intent to do harm, what law are they breaking? Now that does not mean that they aren't responsible for repairing the damage, but if it was a simple accident, what violation would they be charged with?

Scott
 
GojuBrian said:
What made this guy go off? Why did he not care if he killed someone or even someone's child? What the heck is wrong with people?

Who knows, some people are idiots! Maybe he was fighting with his girlfriend, and then decided to redirect that energy towards you? I've seen that sort of stuff happen often enough in the area where I work!

Yeah OK, the guy was a first class jerk, but other than cursing at you, did he threaten you? Did he say he was going to kick you a**? Did he point a gun at you?

I think this guy was clearly threatening to the OP, even if he didn't utter words to that effect. The OP said the guy was yelling at him, and that he essentially kept "bluff charging" the OP's car, with his girlfriend trying to restrain him. There was definitely a threat here, though it wasn't yet a deadly force situation (not that the OP was saying that anyway).

I don't think that applies on private property - the police can't site you for 'speeding' or running the stop signs in a parking lot, so I doubt they'd have much recourse to do anything other than follow him and wait for him to screw up.

Well, around here we do have some leway on private property. Reckless driving, careless driving, and DUI can all be cited on private property. But, we have to observe the violation, and can't cite on a 3rd party complaint, under most circumstances!

Still, the Walmart in my jurisdiction has cameras EVERYWHERE! I probably would have at least checked the security tapes to see what happened, as that has helped me solve crimes on numerous other occasions at that location... In short, the reckless driver still may have been cited just based on the evidence I could obtain from the video camera; in that case the OP would have been listed as a witness on the summons!

Still, I think the OP did the right thing by calling the police! This guy was out of control, and I'd have contacted him if I was the officer who received the call. Lets recap here:

1) Nearly ran someone over while recklessly driving through a parking lot.
2) Disturbed the peace of the OP by repeatedly charging his car while screaming obsenities (and potentially putting the OP in fear of bodily injury).


Yes, during all the yelling he did threaten to "kick my a$$" several times.

With that additional clarification, I could have certainly pursued charges against the other driver. Certainly a threats or disturbance of the peace charge could apply, but I believe that misdemeanor menacing would also potentially be applicable, given the subject's physical actions, coupled with his verbal threats (obviously I'd need more info from the OP):

"A person commits the crime of menacing if, by any threat or physical action, he or she knowingly places or attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury. Menacing is a class 3 misdemeanor, but, it is a class 5 felony if committed:
(a) By the use of a deadly weapon or any article used or fashioned in a manner to cause a person to reasonably believe that the article is a deadly weapon; or
(b) By the person representing verbally or otherwise that he or she is armed with a deadly weapon."
 
I don't get what it is in a Walmart parkinglot that makes people drive like idiots. IF I don't have my daughter with me, I'll stare them down, and make strong eye contact. The one's near me have security that is able to pull drivers over, and they call LEO to complete the transaction.
No security is able to compel an individual, under "color of law", to pull over. Mall cops can say "STOP NOW", but unless you are committing a crime (in which case, any citizen could interfere) they can't go "hands on", or utilize LTL weaponry. They call the police.

Mall security, Wal-Mart greeters, et al, do not have more power to detain you than a sworn officer of the law. When I go through the "greeter" stand at Wal-Mart, I always politely say hello to them. However, when I leave, if they ask to see my receipt, I always simply say "no thank you" and continue to walk. If a sworn, trained, paid officer can't search my possessions on a mere whim, then Granny working at Wally World sure as heck can't!

Ah, sorry for the derailment, I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread already in progress :)
 
In Canada where I come from parking lot problems are not handled by police any more. They do not respond to that kind of thing .
 
The County Sheriff Deputies where I live in the Peoples' Republic of Washington are fat, lazy and shiftless. They do not care about misdemenours or low grade felonies and won't leave the donut shop to take a report unless somebody is shot dead on private property.
 
Originally Posted by GojuBrian
What made this guy go off? Why did he not care if he killed someone or even someone's child? What the heck is wrong with people?

Originally Posted by coloradokevin
Who knows, some people are idiots! Maybe he was fighting with his girlfriend, and then decided to redirect that energy towards you?

While we don’t know what initially caused the man’s irrational behavior, we do know exactly why he chose to “redirect” some of his anger towards the OP.

When he turned he fishtailed and almost hit the front of my car as I was leaving. I honked and slammed on my brakes. He flipped me off and yelled something. I backed up to where he parked and dialed the police.

What I am about to say will upset many people here. It may get this thread locked. Hell, it may even get me banned!

Why do most people carry guns? The do it to empower themselves. They no longer have to live in fear that they will be powerless if someone endangers them or a loved one.

Now here is where I am going to get in trouble…

In reading some of the posts here and on similar forums, I have come to the conclusion that carrying a gun also empowers some people to do really dumb things! By the same token, when people don’t carry a gun, they just might tend to be a little more cautious and not do or say things that might provoke others because they know they can’t defend themselves against some idiot who has already proven himself to be unstable or irrational.

Sure, the guy driving through the parking lot was making it unsafe for the population at large, but he did not become a threat to the OP until he honked at him. Because of this, the driver:
…did threaten to "kick my a$$" several times.
So if you had left the scene without honking at him or otherwise acknowledging his behavior, do you think he would have singled you out? Probably not.

OTOH, getting the guy’s description and license plate and giving it to the police was a good idea. You just veered a little off course and put yourself at risk by your own actions. Next time, be smarter and don't provoke someone who is apparently already close to the edge. You should carry a gun to protect yourself when things happen that are out of your control, not to get you out of trouble that could have been avoided in the first place.

Scott
 
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And furthermore...

Consider yourself lucky! Another thing that I think some CCW holders do not consider is the fact that this notion of carrying a concealed weapon is not the sole domain of us honest law-abiding citizens! Here is some guy who apparently has some anger management issues driving through the parking lot in an unsafe manner and now you provoke him.

He came up to you threatening to kick your a**. What if after that statement he had drawn a weapon on you? What were you going to do with that can of pepper spray? You don't know how unstable he is or what he is thinking or what he is capable of.

[/rant]OFF... for now!

[flamesuit]ON

Scott
 
ROFL!! Some of you guys need to quit assuming so much.

1. I do not carry a gun. If I did my actions would not have changed.

2. The pepperspray was not 'brandished' I only had it in hand because I was threatened and felt threatened.

3. There's nothing wrong with honking at people that almost hit you.

Sure, I could have 'just drove off', but this guy was breaking the law and it's my duty as a citizen to report dangerous people. Don't like it? Be a sheeple and run every time some moron goes on a rampage...it empowers them!

I was not the 'provoker' here. The guy who nearly hit me and then acted in the manner he did was the 'provoker'.

Sure, I shouldn't have backed up and let him know anything about me calling the police visually.

Maybe we should just let people go on rampages endangering the masses and cower in our homes?? :rolleyes:

Nah, not me.
 
Maybe we should just let people go on rampages endangering the masses and cower in our homes??

Nah, not me.
So do you get to wear the BatCape and the pointy ear thingees, too? ;)
 
It's not vigilanteism in the least bit, so don't be coy.

Do you wear a pink tutu and a halo? ;)

Look, people just need to do what's right and quit whining about the stakes involved if they do.
 
Sure, I could have 'just drove off', but this guy was breaking the law and it's my duty as a citizen to report dangerous people.
Yes. But not to confront him or to correct him.
Don't like it? Be a sheeple and run every time some moron goes on a rampage...it empowers them!
There's a big difference between being a "Sheeple" (wow, am I getting tired of this sanctimonious "Sheepdog/Sheeple" metaphor) and acting prudently to fulfill your duty (notifying the police) without causing the violent actor to focus his attention on you.

I was not the 'provoker' here. The guy who nearly hit me and then acted in the manner he did was the 'provoker'.
No?
Sure, I shouldn't have backed up and let him know anything about me calling the police visually.
So you weren't the primary "provoker" but you did exacerbate the situation. This takes the whole thing one step closer to the concept of "mutual combat." If you willingly engage in the altercation, you do bear some of the responsibility. And only G@d and that guy know how close your actions came to tripping his trigger. Metaphorically...you hope.

Maybe we should just let people go on rampages endangering the masses and cower in our homes??
No, but you are not a law enforcement officer and do not have the duty/authority to stop a loudmouth, bully, or even a reckless driver. You have the right (responsibility, even) to defend your life and those of a limited assortment of other folks against violent attack, in the most dire of circumstance. But having acted to escalate those circumstances narrows your mandate to act appropriately by a large margin.

[EDIT: CRAP! I forgot, you weren't even armed! You really dodged a bullet, maybe not metaphorically at all. Yikes.]

This thread is starting to wander into hyperbole. (Caped crusaders vs. "sheeple", etc.)

Let's let it suffice to say that you did the correct thing in recognizing a potential threat and notifying the police so that they could move to act in a timely fashion and/or correlate facts in the event of an incident. But that you reacted unwisely to that threat by attracting the guy's attention, increasing his agitation, and not moving immediately to create safety through distance.

Live and learn. (Fortunately.)

-Sam
 
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Excellent synopsis, Sam - thanks.

Sorry for the Batman digression, but I hardly consider the scenario described in the OP to constitute a "rampage endangering the masses', nor do I see either letting it go or calling the police (either with the goal of avoiding escalation of the situation) to be construed as 'cowering in our homes'.

Sometimes, it seems as if folk are just itchin' to be the Guardians Of Goodness And The Last Bastion Of Righteousness, without really taking the time to put things in perspective or even stop and figure out how to be useful without making things worse.
 
Good for you for reporting what sounds like a real *******! Does anyone else here think we need to introduce corporal punishment for adult offenders?
 
Let's let it suffice to say that you did the correct thing in recognizing a potential threat and notifying the police so that they could move to act in a timely fashion and/or correlate facts in the event of an incident. But that you reacted unwisely to that threat by attracting the guy's attention, increasing his agitation, and not moving immediately to create safety through distance.

I agree completely and hopefully I'll have the presence of mind to do differently next time.
 
Had he threatened me or my family that way he would be changing two flat tires when he came out of the store!

Well sir, that would have been a very illegal and cowardly act imo.


BTW, I appreciate all the feedback and discussion. :)
 
Even though you don't carry a gun, you seriously might want to consider taking a CCW class. There is a lot more to it than just handgun familiarization and shooting techniques. After you complete a good class, you will come away with a much clearer understanding of threat assessment, how and when to intervene and probably just as important, when not to intervene. You will also come away with some good ideas on how to better protect yourself, your family and your home.

Most classes are just one day and run $100-150. You might even get a discount because you are a veteran. I thank you for that!

Scott
 
the police can't site you for 'speeding' or running the stop signs in a parking lot

Wrong. At least here in the Houston area. My son was issued a ticket for running a stop sign in a mall parking lot and he did have to pay it.

As to the initial incident I think you did ok. A personal friend of mine lost a son because of aholes like him. You don't want to know what I think would be ok to do to him.
 
I am not a lawyer (and I don't play one on TV) and there is no possible way I can know the laws in your jurisdiction, but what law did the guy break when he hit your car?

And like DHJenkins said, marijuana is illegal from what I understand. (Not from personal experience of course!)

I didn't realize it wasn't illegal to hit someone's car. I'll have to do it more often to practice my smash up derby. Reckless op? At the very least, destruction of property, vandalism? I can't believe you can simply destroy someone's property and not get a citation for something...
 
71commander,

You enjoy condescension don't you? What exactly would you have done in the same situation your high and mightyness. :neener:

people like you make me not want to share stories, condescending internet know it alls......
 
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