Calling all mountain men: Best Sidearm for remote hiking or backpacking

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Who?

1911Tuner said:

His name is Dave Goodner. That probably was around 20 to 30 years ago.
I'd have never heard someone say that before or after he told me the story
until I read your post.

Funny
 
Now that you have your super anti bear, feral dog, cat, pot farmer .44/454/500 long barrel/snub nose titanium pistol (hypothetically)..... for hiking what are the laws as far as the unthinkable happening... the said predator attacks you bring it down in one, two, a whole cylinder of hot loads. Two legged predator nonwithstanding (good riddance:D ) there is a dead game and/or protected (PRK) animal here and other than the 3 S's (shoot, shovel and shut-up) you are giong to have to report it to the rangers station/game warden etc. I know in a urban setting "I was in fear of my life" is the first thing you say to the officer when you spoil the BG's day. When you use a weapon that you might use to take said animal during the legal hunting season may not fly too well in ranger rick's eyes (Alaska is a whole different story). You know you are not a poacher, just defending you and yours but.....:uhoh: . In Texas the only land (besides your own) you can hike on besides the National Forests are WMA State Parks and Areas (zones where there are farms and ranches that are part of the state's wetlands). In these areas and zones you can carry firearms but with restrictions: No centerfire guns except shotguns (and they must be loaded with bird shot unless it is during deer season). You can have muzzleloaders, bows and .22 rimfire rifles/pistols. My family's land just missed such an area by 1/2 mile:eek: . All I'm saying is check the game/park/carry laws especially if the wilderness area you are in crosses state lines.

kjeff50cal
 
I havn't spent much time in the wilderness since I was a boy scout, but I figure that what you're carrying doesn't matter half so much as how many other people you're with, and how many of them are carrying. If some of them don't want to carry a handgun, make them carry more of the gear, and upgrade to a rifle.

(Sorry, I know that doesn't directly address your question, but since you ought to be out in the middle of nowhere with at least one other person, your extra money is better spent on something they're willing to carry, if they don't already have something.)
 
The right gun for TRUEBLUE1776

I can certainly appreciate the reluctance to carry a heavy firearm while out backpacking. However in the backcountry there is no such thing as over kill. I would rather pick at the scraps of a rabbit killed by a forty four than be mauled by large game and die trying to drag myself back in.

I use saddle and pack horses so this affords me a little more firepower. I personally use a .500 Linebaugh built on the Ruger Bisley frame and carried cross draw. Even then this is probably too heavy for 20 mile per day hikes.

Have you considered the new Taurus Titanium 444 UltraLight .44 Magnum revolver? I handled one of these and they are amazingly light (under 2 lbs). Still it’s a .44 magnum. Sadly I have only handled it and never got to shoot it.

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=444MULTI&category=Revolver

Regarding the carry. I would always carry cross draw. If your pinned to the ground by an Elk or Bear there is no way to get a gun free unless its in a cross draw holster. Just a thought!

I think you will be very impressed with this gun. I bet it recoils like a Missouri Mule!

Dwayne
 
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Dwayne Russell said:
Have you considered the new Taurus Titanium 444 UltraLight .44 Magnum revolver? I handled one of these and they are amazingly light (under 2 lbs). Still it’s a .44 magnum. Sadly I have only handled it and never got to shoot it.

I don't know anyone who regularly shoots these super-light guns with full charges. There is always the guy who will tell you, "When the chips are down, you won't feel the recoil."

The response to that is, "When the chips are down you won't get a hit, either -- because you won't have practiced enough."

I go with Phil Shoemaker -- carry a gun you will use and shoot a lot. Take a reduction in power to get an increase in shootability. Phil recommends a .357 with a 180 grain hard cast bullet.
 
trueblue1776 said:
P229 is much heavier (too heavy for backpacking?) but in a bear situation it would totally save my bacon,
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I love my .45 but I don't think for one second that the one or two shots I might be lucky enough to get off or even the whole mag is gonna kill the bear fast enough to save my life. A big bore guide rifle would be more trustworthy for a bear, IMNSHO.

Failing that, I think you should go with what ya know, and 22LR, is a great back up or small meal weapon, but two legged predators need bigger medicine, so take the P229, (It's what you are comfy with,) and hope you can avoid them mean ole bars.

As for what travels best, I think that is entirely dependent upon what sort of holster/rig, you have.

Lone Star said:
Study bear anatomy and shoot for vital zones.
Ya know, that's some good advice.

Look, the bear is probably gonna die eventually if you shoot it enough, but you need to make it stop hurting you a lot sooner than eventually.
 
In Texas the only land (besides your own) you can hike on besides the National Forests are WMA State Parks and Areas (zones where there are farms and ranches that are part of the state's wetlands). In these areas and zones you can carry firearms but with restrictions: No centerfire guns except shotguns (and they must be loaded with bird shot unless it is during deer season). You can have muzzleloaders, bows and .22 rimfire rifles/pistols. My family's land just missed such an area by 1/2 mile . All I'm saying is check the game/park/carry laws especially if the wilderness area you are in crosses state lines.

Ever go to the "land cut" area? It's a cut between upper and lower Laguna Madre. On one side (inland) is the Kennedy ranch, posted. The King ranch is the other side of Baffin Bay. One the seaward side of the cut is Padre Island National Seashore and Padre Island. Now, from inland of the dunes area to the cut, you can hunt deer, waterfowl, whatever. It's WILD down there, no roads in, have to take a boat and it's a 2 hour boat ride to where we go down there. We go in groups, so it takes some logistics. Pays to have more'n one boat in case someone has trouble and it's not smart to be down there without a few others. You can get trapped by a norther down there because of the high seas you'll meet at the mouth of Baffin Bay.

It's a heck of a lot of fun down there and HARD hiking back in the sand flats. Lots of tidal pools and such, really unique aquatic habitats. I was down there deer hunting and duck hunting first time down and hiked about 3 or 4 miles back into this tidal pool area. In college (I was a fisheries management major) I remember studying about the high salinity environments down there. In summer, high tidal waters will get trapped in there and the hot sun will evaporate and concentrate them. You can see the salt line around the sand and the water is YUK salty. There are species of killifish that have adapted to the highly variable salinities and I was able to see some of 'em 'cause the pools were so clear. I was so intensely interested in these pools, I forgot all about hunting! I was the only one in the group that gave a flip, but it was super neat. I haven't been that far in since, but would like to go back there and check it all out again sometime. There are some really intresting things down there.

There is a duck pond down there, fed by a spring! You'd never figure on a barrier island like that, but this pond is fresh as a mountain stream. The ducks WANNA be there. We sit there, no decoys, and kill a limit in an hour or two. I use a call, but rarely have to hail them, just do a little quack and feeding chuckle to get them to zero in on me as they come down. That's gotta be the best pothole on the planet for duck hunting. If it were more accessable, more would know about it. So, I guess it's a good thing it's so remote.

The land cut area is one of the few really WILD areas in the eastern half of Texas. Most of eastern Texas is one small private land tract after another and plenty of roads to get around. From about here (Calhoun county) south, though, there's lots of HUGE ranchs. It's all posted, but we have Aransas refuge for the hiker (if you like mosquito watching, hard to tell the mosquitos from the whooping cranes down there) and Padre Island for unique, wild public lands. While down on the land cut area, I was hunting deer with a .308 and carried my .45 colt for grins. I usually carry my little .22 down there when we go on duck hunts just for plinking. I'll sometimes carry a rifle, too, cause there's coyotes to call after dark. Got a friend with an electronic caller and we take a good portable spotlight.
 
Maybe for the next "perfect backpacking gun" thread, it should be limited to posts from people who have:

1. Actually carried a handgun on a backpacking trip in the mountains,
2. On at least a one-week trip,
3. With, let's say, an average of 10 miles and +- 2000 vertical ft per day.

Not trying to irritate anyone here, just think its best to hear from people who have been there....

I'll bet a lot of the enthusiastic support for the heavy revolvers will go away. I've done it with a 6-inch Model 29, and I now have a 329PD. I can practice all year with a 4-in model 28, and carry the 329 on the trail. I use a vertical shoulder holster that is adjusted so the 329 rides low enough that it doesn't interfer with the packstraps. Since I'm also usually carrying a flyrod and gear, I really have to watch every ounce.

Works for me!

RBH
 

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I doubt it was legal (like in the grand canyon) but when I was a boyscout one of our scoutmasters was a security police officer in the Air Force... he carried a 4 inch model 10 .38 Special everywhere he went. I had another scoutmaster take a Colt Patterson replica to Philmont.

I've done a lot of backpacking across Colorado and Arizona.

Still think a 2-3 inch .357 in a safepacker is the most effective and discreet form of carry that's also a useful holster.

The worst place for your gun is under your socks in the bottom of your pack.
 
redbone said:
Maybe for the next "perfect backpacking gun" thread, it should be limited to posts from people who have:

1. Actually carried a handgun on a backpacking trip in the mountains,
2. On at least a one-week trip,
3. With, let's say, an average of 10 miles and +- 2000 vertical ft per day.

Not trying to irritate anyone here, just think its best to hear from people who have been there....

I'll bet a lot of the enthusiastic support for the heavy revolvers will go away. I've done it with a 6-inch Model 29, and I now have a 329PD. I can practice all year with a 4-in model 28, and carry the 329 on the trail. I use a vertical shoulder holster that is adjusted so the 329 rides low enough that it doesn't interfer with the packstraps. Since I'm also usually carrying a flyrod and gear, I really have to watch every ounce.

Works for me!

RBH

Does hiking across Viet Nam with a .45 count? :p

I admit to being a light-pack fanatic. Normally I carry a .22 pistol when backpacking in the Ozarks, but have been known to carry my .357. By the second day, you start to resent every single extra ounce.
 
redbone said:
Maybe for the next "perfect backpacking gun" thread, it should be limited to posts from people who have:

1. Actually carried a handgun on a backpacking trip in the mountains,
2. On at least a one-week trip,
3. With, let's say, an average of 10 miles and +- 2000 vertical ft per day.

Not trying to irritate anyone here, just think its best to hear from people who have been there....

I'll bet a lot of the enthusiastic support for the heavy revolvers will go away. I've done it with a 6-inch Model 29, and I now have a 329PD. I can practice all year with a 4-in model 28, and carry the 329 on the trail. I use a vertical shoulder holster that is adjusted so the 329 rides low enough that it doesn't interfer with the packstraps. Since I'm also usually carrying a flyrod and gear, I really have to watch every ounce.

Works for me!

RBH

Yeah, I get a little irritated with the "get in shape" comments. When I was younger, I did a lot of hiking, sometimes put on as much as 15 miles a day with lots of elevation out west. You're right, a big gun gets heavy FAST! You have to carry drinking water and water is heavy, 8.34 lbs per gallon. Even day hikes are tough with camera gear, water, etc. Do an overnighter or three with camping gear on a frame pack and you're LOADED down.

That's why I usually just carry my kit gun .22 or a small .38 when I know I'm going to be on my feet walking/climbing all day. You need to have done it to know. Anyone can be an arm chair quarterback.

With all the people worried about getting ate by bears, black bears at that, I wonder just how many have been the wild on a good hike? About the only time I've seen black bear is if I have food about at night. They come in to food just like raccoons or anything else. They're easy to scare off.

Now, I've never hiked in grizzly country, but I'd just give 'em a wide, wide birth. I think I'd rather carry a carbine than some of the big handguns listed. It'd be lighter and easier to carry. I'm thinking something like a Marlin guide gun. My 40 ounce Blackhawk gets pretty heavy on the belt after a while. That's about as big as I can carry all day when hiking and I'd really like to cut that back to something a lot lighter.
 
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Buffalo Bore

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MCgunner said:
Yeah, I get a little irritated with the "get in shape" comments. When I was younger, I did a lot of hiking, sometimes put on as much as 15 miles a day with lots of elevation out west. You're right, a big gun gets heavy FAST! You have to carry drinking water and water is heavy, 8.34 lbs per gallon. Even day hikes are tough with camera gear, water, etc. Do an overnighter or three with camping gear on a frame pack and you're LOADED down.

That's why I usually just carry my kit gun .22 or a small .38 when I know I'm going to be on my feet walking/climbing all day. You need to have done it to know. Anyone can be an arm chair quarterback.

With all the people worried about getting ate by bears, black bears at that, I wonder just how many have been the wild on a good hike? About the only time I've seen black bear is if I have food about at night. They come in to food just like raccoons or anything else. They're easy to scare off.

Now, I've never hiked in grizzly country, but I'd just give 'em a wide, wide birth. I think I'd rather carry a carbine than some of the big handguns listed. It'd be lighter and easier to carry. I'm thinking something like a Marlin guide gun. My 40 ounce Blackhawk gets pretty heavy on the belt after a while. That's about as big as I can carry all day when hiking and I'd really like to cut that back to something a lot lighter.

Amen.

Here's what I propose -- let's everyone on this thread get together in the spring and I'll lead a hike over the Ozark Highland Trail. Carry what you want, and see how you do.

During the hike, I'll point out the spot where a backpacker in a tent was attacked by a black bear. The bear bit him severely and dragged the tent (with the hiker inside) about a hundred yards before giving it up as a bad job.
 
Vern: You bet it counts! Sounds like you've had some experience since then, too. Hey, maybe we should be issued M79s for grizzly country!

I also like to take a .22 kit gun on dayhikes around home (southern Indiana), just for some fun plinking. Lately, more often than not, I've just got a .380 in my pocket on a day hike, although I sometimes carry a .40 or 9mm.

The only real threat around here are two-legged critters who think a county with a low population and lots of forestland is a good place for a meth lab. There are so many deer in this area that the 4-legged predators don't seem to target humans.

RBH
 
redbone said:
Vern: You bet it counts! Sounds like you've had some experience since then, too. Hey, maybe we should be issued M79s for grizzly country!

I also like to take a .22 kit gun on dayhikes around home (southern Indiana), just for some fun plinking. Lately, more often than not, I've just got a .380 in my pocket on a day hike, although I sometimes carry a .40 or 9mm.

The only real threat around here are two-legged critters who think a county with a low population and lots of forestland is a good place for a meth lab. There are so many deer in this area that the 4-legged predators don't seem to target humans.

RBH

I used to hike in Georgia where there are a lot of wild dogs. I like a 6-foot walking staff, and I had one I cut from an oak sappling behind my house. It worked pretty well -- and even better whem I put a spike in the upper end.:p
 
Funny

Working Man said:
His name is Dave Goodner. That probably was around 20 to 30 years ago.
I'd have never heard someone say that before or after he told me the story
until I read your post.

Funny

Sounds like Dave mighta understood one of Will Rogers' witticisms:

"A man that's had had a tiger by the tail know five or six more things about tigers than one that hasn't." ;)

Honestly...I don't know the man, but sometimes a wise axiom origin unknown can travel a long distance from whence it came. Wisdom has a way of doin' that. Can't remember exactly where I heard it...but it makes sense.:cool:


The problem with a big bruin, or any animal that is big and strong enough to kill you...is perfectly WILLING to kill you...and that wants you dead just because you're alive...isn't so much in killing him. It's in making him understand that he's dead. A .38 in the heart or lungs will kill a Polar Bear,
but it could take him 20 or 30 minutes to die...and he can do you a world of hurt in the meantime. If you can't carry a medium-heavy rifle, avoidance is the best policy. Make noise while hiking. Know the signs of a bear's presence. Especially, if you see or hear cubs...go in full reverse, muy pronto. Sows with cubs are the ones that'll kill ya so dead that they'll have to use DNA to identify the body. NEVER approach a bear cub, especially if he's hollerin' for mama to come rescue him.
 
1911Tuner said:
Sounds like Dave mighta understood one of Will Rogers' witticisms:

"A man that's had had a tiger by the tail know five or six more things about tigers than one that hasn't." ;)

Honestly...I don't know the man, but sometimes a wise axiom that comes from parts unknown can travel a long distance from whence it came. Wisdom has a way of doin' that. Can't remember exactly where I heard it...but it makes sense.:cool:

Which brings to mind another of Will Roger's remarks:

"There's three kinds of men. There's those can learn from books. There's them that can learn from others. And there's them that has to pee on the electric fence for themselves.":what:


1911Tuner said:
The problem with a big bruin, or any animal that is big and strong enough to kill you...is perfectly WILLING to kill you...and that wants you dead just because you're alive...isn't so much in killing him. It's in making him understand that he's dead. A .38 in the heart or lungs will kill a Polar Bear, but it could take him 20 or 30 minutes to die...and he can do you a world of hurt in the meantime. If you can't carry a medium-heavy rifle, avoidance is the best policy. Make noise while hiking. Know the signs of a bear's presence. Especially, if you see or hear cubs...go in full reverse, muy pronto. Sows with cubs are the ones that'll kill ya so dead that they'll have to use DNA to identify the body. NEVER approach a bear cub, especially if he's hollerin' for mama to come rescue him.

There's a fellow who has pit bulls near my place -- I walk past them every day on my daily hike. One of them got out one day -- but lucky for it, it seemed to know what a gun was for. (The owner and I struck a deal -- jhe reinforced the pen, and if the dog comes out in the road, he's my dog.)

I was discussing this incident with my vet and she said, "You're lucky. When you trigger a dog like that, you can't turn him off without killing him."
 
I have bumped a grizzly sow and cub while archery hunting for elk in Wyoming. My bear spray was unsafed way before my guide got his .38 special out of the holster. Fortunately, they were quartering away from us and paid us no mind. We backpedaled out of there like there was no tomorrow.

I wouldn't have felt "safe" with a 12 guage, let alone anything I could have worn on my hip.

I didn't carry a .45 in Nam-didn't want the extra weight-preferred to carry more ammo for my M16.
 
redbone said:
Maybe for the next "perfect backpacking gun" thread, it should be limited to posts from people who have:

1. Actually carried a handgun on a backpacking trip in the mountains,
2. On at least a one-week trip,
3. With, let's say, an average of 10 miles and +- 2000 vertical ft per day.

Not trying to irritate anyone here, just think its best to hear from people who have been there...
You're absolutely right and no offense taken. I am done with this thread since I am just regurgitating folk wisdom and sech. I haven't BTDT outside of the Marine Corps, and guarding aircraft crash sites from curious hippies and desert rats doesn't count here. My bad
 
I wish I could remember the thread where Cosmoline posted a picture of a typical Alaskan hiking "trail".

Getting out of the way or seeing the bear far enough away to avoid it aren't common options up here.

We had an old guy have to do a fast draw of a Casull within sight of downtown (couple hour walk cross country) to stop a bear from feet away.
 
First choice is 4 inch barrel Colt Anaconda .44 magnum
Second choice is Colt Delta Elite 10mm
I also carry a .357 American Derringer loaded with shot for snakes
 
A while back I acquired a 4" S&W Mountain Gun in .44 mag. The idea was to pack it when in bear country. What usually happens is when I'm trying to get the pack weight down is that the 4" .44 gets turns into a 3" SP101 with 180gr JFPs. If I was going to be in brown bear country, I would prolly suck it up and carry the .44.
 
Originally Posted by trueblue1776
P229 is much heavier (too heavy for backpacking?) but in a bear situation it would totally save my bacon,

Oh, now this is classic. Not only will a .45 ACP "blow 'em off their feet", now it's the perfect bear medicine, all 350 ft lbs of it....:rolleyes: If I'm going to carry something that heavy, a .45 colt or .44 magnum in a blackhawk or mountain gun platform is the way I'll go.

I reckon my .38 special is about as good for bears as a .45 ACP. And, while I'd never THINK of using a .45 ACP for deer hunting, I've actually killed deer with the .357. If the .357 isn't regarded as good enough for bear, why would I carry my .45?

Wow, I'm sure glad I don't live in grizzly country. After reading this thread, I'd never leave the house. I'd set up tank traps around the house and lay land mines in for 150 yards in a 360 degree parimeter. :eek: I know they can be mean critters, but I hear all this stuff about black bears and I've never had a problem with a black bear. I hang my pack/food from a tree, don't keep any snacks in my tent.

Okay, I'll compromise. Next trip to the mountains, after I get that SP101 3" I'm jonesin' for, that's my carry gun. :D And, if I ever do get to get up to Alaska, I'll take a rifle. There's no reason to be hiking in Alaska without a rifle, is there? Well, yeah, in a national park I reckon. I CAN carry the blackhawk IWB if I absolutely have to. PITA literally, but I can do it. I've got a shoulder rig it fits in, too.
 
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The reasons for carrying a handgun out in the bush are quite similar to the reasons for carrying one in Anytown, USA. You may go for years and years without needing one, but on those rare occasions when you do need one, you need a good one and you need it right now.

As has been mentioned before on this thread, if you are on a two week backpacking trip your pack is going to be too doggone heavy and you will resent each and every ounce. That backpacker par excellence, Colin Fletcher, author of The Complete Walker and The Man Who Walked Through Time, used to clip the strings and paper tags off his tea bags. After you carry a 90 pound pack and try to make more than 10 miles a day in rough country, you will too. You will also worry long and hard over the amount of your ammunition; is twelve rounds enough or will six do fine? Either that or you'll give up on the whole deal.

In other words, your handgun and ammunition need to be absolutely as light as possible. Let's not even discuss rifles, shotguns, and ultramagnum pistols with 18 inch barrels. You're not hunting, you're not planning on shooting anything at all; you're merely budgeting a small portion of your heavy load for self defense or survival on the small chance that you will need it. Two pounds of weight is pushing the upper limit of tolerance, and you will curse every ounce of it while you drag your weary, thirsty body and excessive burden up that long steep hill on blister-ridden feet.

Your gun needs not only to be light, but also powerful; powerful enough to save your tail from a threat that is greater than you had planned for. Human bad actors are relatively easy to stop. Large animals, whether carnivore or herbivore are a bit more of a challenge. They may be larger, a lot larger, than you are. They are certainly faster and stronger, and have larger teeth, claws, antlers, hooves, etc., than you do. Basically, it is impossible to have a gun that is too powerful.

I happen to think that a .357 Magnum is a decent round (by no means too powerful) to handle a typical two-legged predator, or an ill-tempered, 80 pound pit bull. For something like a 200 pound mountain lion or a 300 pound bear, I would prefer something more powerful. For something like an irate mama moose or a surly brown bear, I would like something a lot more powerful. I think the .41 Magnum is a minimum for black bear or lion country, and the .44 Magnum is a minimum for brown bear or moose country. For auto pistols, the .45 ACP, .357 SIG and 10mm are significantly substandard for lion and black bear. They are utterly inadequate for brown bear and moose. It's kind of like you wouldn't want to face a bunch of bikers with a .25 Auto, would you?

That late, great master of handgunnery and father of the .44 Magnum, Elmer Keith, once said something to the effect that " If you carry a pistol in the wilds, and use it every day for thirty years, you can hardly help learning something about it", and that is precisely what he did. He was intimately acquainted with the concept of the "hot load." Elmer's favorite carry gun, in town and country, was a Smith & Wesson Model 29 .44 Magnum with a four inch barrel and custom ivory grips. I'm not as wiry or recoil-tolerant as Elmer. I am partial to the S&W 329 with the polymer grips from the S&W 500 and it is so light as to reside near the limits of shootability. When I carry it, I usually consider myself to be adequately, but not excessively, well armed. It is a very good compromise between power and lightness: if it were any lighter, you would have to use a weaker cartridge to make it shootable. If it were any more powerful, it would have to be heavier to be shootable. It is light enough to carry in the bush day after day, and powerful enough that you will not be underarmed except in the most dire of circumstances.

To carry this beast, and it is a beast, I would recommend a shoulder or chest holster that is independent of your backpack, and which will stay with you if you have to dump your pack in a big hurry. The holster itself should be quite light and comfortable enough to wear in bed. I'm not saying that you need to wear it to bed, just that you should not be inhibited from doing so if you deem it advisable. The holster should keep the revolver on the weak hand side, slightly high and toward the front; and accessible to your shooting hand whether you are tangled up in brush, curled up in a defensive posture, or taking a dump with your pants around your ankles.

Although the .44 Magnum is on the powerful side for a pistol cartridge, it is still only a handgun cartridge. You can't afford to mess around with large, dangerous animals. Even if you kill the beast, if he manages to wound you you are dead meat without prompt medical care. That is not usually available out in the bush. A shot right through the heart is not good enough. You need to hit Mr. A. Nasty Bear or Mr. Bodacious Lion right between the eyes. Actually, for a charging bear, the Alaska wildlife authorities recommend that you aim for the nose for a frontal brain shot. As a bear gets closer to you it becomes technically easier to get a good brain shot. Unfortunately, it also gets easier to become completely flustered and miss the beast entirely while you are soiling your drawers. The answer is practice, practice, practice.

Have a nice walk and God bless.


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