I'm being told that the custom rifle I ordered will have the barrel tuned so that the spin drift of the bullet will start in a vertical path. They also x-ray the barrel and action and make adjustments to ensure action to barrel alignment. I would love to hear you folks opinion on both of these.
can a barrel be tuned to adjust direction of spin drift?
- Thread starter CANNONMAN
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Jackal
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And they infuse it with powder made from Unicorn horns, harvested only when the moon is full, from virgin steeds, during a double rainbow...
adcoch1
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NASA does gunsmithing now? !
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benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Spin drift is a long-range phenomenon, and isn't really affected by anything you can do at the muzzle (except for spinning the bullet more slowly, and adjusting your sights a tad to account for it). As I understand it, it becomes noticeable past 500 yards or so when the bullet has fallen pretty far from the original line of departure, and is therefore flying a little nose-up compared to the prevailing airflow. The airflow tries to nose the bullet down to point into the prevailing wind, but gyroscopic affects translate that motion into a yaw to the right (for a right-hand rifling twist).
Having said that, having the muzzle nice and true to minimize bullet wobble (nutation) after muzzle exit will help keep things settled and tighten groups. But true spin drift is purely an aerodynamic and gyroscopic effect that develops well after muzzle exit.
Having said that, having the muzzle nice and true to minimize bullet wobble (nutation) after muzzle exit will help keep things settled and tighten groups. But true spin drift is purely an aerodynamic and gyroscopic effect that develops well after muzzle exit.
Charles S
Member
I am curious as to whom is making those claims. Would you mind sharing that information?
As someone who is very familiar with the use of X-rays I am not sure how that would beneficial at anything but an amazing level of resolution that can only be achieved with CT scans. I am aware of the use of high resolution CT scanning in industry, heck GE used the 64 slice CTs in the aviation industry long before they were used in the medical field. I cannot imagine the average gunsmith or even major gunsmith like Georgia Precision having access to that kind of technology.
I will be interested to following this thread. I am about to have another custom rifle built. I may learn something.
As someone who is very familiar with the use of X-rays I am not sure how that would beneficial at anything but an amazing level of resolution that can only be achieved with CT scans. I am aware of the use of high resolution CT scanning in industry, heck GE used the 64 slice CTs in the aviation industry long before they were used in the medical field. I cannot imagine the average gunsmith or even major gunsmith like Georgia Precision having access to that kind of technology.
I will be interested to following this thread. I am about to have another custom rifle built. I may learn something.
243winxb
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My .223 Savage Axis will shoot all bullets tested over 68gr to near the same POI. 55gr and under shoot a foot right at 100yds. I've been told it was spin drift by several people who looked at and shot the gun. Their solution was to tell me not to shoot bullets under 68gr through the gun or since they still group fairly well 1" to 1-1/2" groups shim the scope base and live with it. LMAO
243winxb
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Charles S
Member
I would disagree with that. Spin drift can be measured and is predicted by ballistics calculators. The ballistic calculator I use actually needs to know if you have left or (more commonly) right hand twist and twist rate to make the calculations. A 223 under no circumstances experiences 12 inches of spin drift at 100 yards.
Someone with more knowledge and education on external ballistics please feel free to chime and correct me if I am wrong.
Llama Bob
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The spin drift claim is physically impossible. Spin drift will by it's nature always be 90 degrees off from vertical, either right of left depending on barrel twist.
Someone is lying to you.
FL-NC
Member
While spin drift isn't a myth, it may as well be. It won't effect most shooters with most calibers because it takes effect WAY outside of the effective range of most shooters and most calibers. But it can't be eliminated, even if the shooter and bullet really are up to the task of shooting that far.
CApighunter
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At what ranges does spindrift come into play with a 6.5 Creedmoor or similar cartridges?
Charles S
Member
Agreed.
Maybe this will help.
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/spindrift.html
Of course if you are considering that, then one should consider the Coriolis Effect.
I am still interested in hearing from CANNONMAN as to who is making those claims. Curious
243winxb
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there is a process called "clocking".......essentially, you mark a dot on your barrel and shoot a group......then you rotate the barrel 90* and shoot another group.....then another 90*.....and another 90*..
and what you will be left with is a 4-leaf clover leaf patter on your paper.....
the current theory is that if you clock your barrel so that your groups are at the 12:00 or 6:00 position, that you will get more consistant group out of your gun....
does it actually help?......im not 100% convinced........but it doesnt seem to hurt anything
and what you will be left with is a 4-leaf clover leaf patter on your paper.....
the current theory is that if you clock your barrel so that your groups are at the 12:00 or 6:00 position, that you will get more consistant group out of your gun....
does it actually help?......im not 100% convinced........but it doesnt seem to hurt anything
The rifle is a 6.5cm. I would think I am amiss in my understanding prior to making absolute statements of fact regarding statements made as to manufacturing. This being said, I would ask the discussion be maintained to the thread and see no reason to include the manufacture. I ran several commercial enterprises where numerous customers believed that they new considerably more than I. I ask here that if you wish to pick on someone, please pick on me. I am humbled at the vast amount of information here and now ask for the same in your response. Thank you.
FL-NC
Member
8-9 inches at 1,000 = < 1 MOA. Assuming this is right- it was explained to me once regarding 175 grain 308 OTM @ 2650 MV, at 1,000 meters, let me ask this: who can consistently shoot 1 MOA (or better) groups when the factors of cross winds and applied corrections, limitations of the ammunition/scope/rifle, mirage, environmentals, time of flight, and the abilities of the shooter come into play? Like I said- largely a non-issue.
243winxb as no pm are allowed to you, what gives? Is there something in my thread that you believe requires interfering with my relationship with a manufacture? Do you believe we will all be better with allocating grief to someone because I asked for information here? Better yet, Please stop replying to my posts if your consideration is outside the benefit of the forum.
The rifle I am having built is not by Rainier arms. I wish it were. I ran into this "insight" from a manufacture of a 6.5cm that seems to be a bit of a pet here. I know how incredibly damaging social media can be and can only pray that this will not be the case here. With heavy hear I ask the moderator to lock this thread and throw it away. I know now to never mention a manufacture or product by name in this forum.
I understand your concern, but if a manufacturer is making wild claims it should be made known to warn potential buyers. Kind of like the old time snake oil salesmen who claimed their "magic elixir" would cure anything. I wonder how many folks suffered, or even died, because they believed those claims.
Ask yourself this. Would you hesitate to identify a builder who did a super job?
RecoilRob
Member
Perhaps the manufacturer IS doing something beneficial to the rifle but just explaining it in a difficult way? Hard to say without knowing more about it I guess.
Just thinking out loud: If spin drift IS what they're attempting to correct....or at least minimize, the only way I can think of a method would be to reduce the spin. Wouldn't that create less gyroscopic moment to then be turned into processional drift?
Perhaps the spin needed to stabilize the 6.5 is (in their estimation) excessive on other barrels and they use the bare minimum needed to keep the normal weight bullets flying true? This WOULD reduce the gyroscopic moment and tendency to drift from it I'd think. Or not...I'm not a ballistician just someone interested in this thread. Thank you Cannonman for posting the question!
It's provoked some thought which is always good.
Just thinking out loud: If spin drift IS what they're attempting to correct....or at least minimize, the only way I can think of a method would be to reduce the spin. Wouldn't that create less gyroscopic moment to then be turned into processional drift?
Perhaps the spin needed to stabilize the 6.5 is (in their estimation) excessive on other barrels and they use the bare minimum needed to keep the normal weight bullets flying true? This WOULD reduce the gyroscopic moment and tendency to drift from it I'd think. Or not...I'm not a ballistician just someone interested in this thread. Thank you Cannonman for posting the question!
It's provoked some thought which is always good.- Status
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