can magnum small pistol primers be used as standard small rifle primers?

[B yond]

I recently found an old box of standard small rifle primers that says it can be used for high-velocity small pistol ammunition, which got me thinking...

Since standard small rifle primers are hard to find around here, I'm wondering if I can use magnum small pistol primers instead.

Any experience with this?

 

[jcwit]

Not recommended. Rifle cartridges have more pressure than what the mag pistol primers are made to handle. You can go the other way rifle in pistol.

What you could run into is pierced primers with gases coming back into the action and you.

Let me add however if shooting cast lead bullets at low velocity and low pressure you would probably be OK.

 

[rfwobbly]

No. Read my similar thread. Pistol primers can't take the greater pressures found in rifle loads.

Click Here

 

[Rembrandt]

Read on another forum that one particular manufacturers "Magnum pistol" primers have the same metal thickness as the small rifle primers and basically are the same. But regular small pistol primers are thinner and won't handle the higher pressures generated by rifles. I've not done this, nor recommend it...but will try to find a link to the topic.

 

[LightningMan]

I'm one that would stick to what is recommended by the loading manuals data, but I do find this odd; In both the Ramshot load guide & the Accurate load guide 3.22 edition, in the section for the 5.7 x 28mm it shows either Win WSR= (Win. small rifle) or WSP= (Win. small pistol) with a note below the data stating; When small pistol primers are used, a slightly lower performance can be expected.
This kind of supprized me for a cartridge that developes around 45,000+ psi. I load this round and for me I will stick with small rifle primers, thank you.

 

[Walkalong]

Yes, and no. The safe advise is no. Folks have done it, but just realize that you don't have as much margin for safety and perhaps not enough when the pressure gets way up there.

I have been using small pistol primers in 5.5 X 28, which operates around 50,000 PSI. Many folks do. I have not tried rifle primers yet. One element of my decision was that pistol primers would show pressure sooner and help keep me out of trouble. I am going to try rifle primers, and may switch. I don't know yet.

Here is a quote from G&A talking about loading the 5.7:

Because the present gun is a pistol, we used small pistol primers in our first development loads. It was easy to duplicate the performance of factory ammo, but at factory pressures our primers were a bit flat. We switched to small rifle primers. With identical loadings, the pressures and velocities we measured were identical with either style primer and the flattening went away with the rifle-style primers (of all brands). The gun had no problems firing the rifle primers either. I see no reason to use pistol primers in this cartridge.

 

[B yond]

Perhaps I should fill you guys in on the particular load I'm asking about, since it could probably be considered a magnum pistol load.

.223 Remington using minimum (or near minimum) load of IMR 4168 (not sure about the powder number, been awhile since I loaded 223) by volume with FMJ or SP bullets.

This is for plinking and general range fun from a first-gen Kel-Tec SU-16A rifle.

I just want something that's reliable, safe, accurate to around 100 yards, and won't destroy my plastic rifle.

 

[rcmodel]

safe, accurate to around 100 yards, and won't destroy my plastic rifle.

Well, then you need to use Rifle primers!

Pistol primers in general, have thinner / softer cups.

They are more sensitive then rifle primers, and would greatly increase the risk of slam-fire doubling in a semi-auto with a floating firing pin, like an AR-15 or Kel-Tec SU-16.

IMO: When you find a reloading manual that calls for pistol primers in the .223, then you can use them!

rc

 

[Rembrandt]

Here's an article on rifle primers, some good charts showing cup thickness and dimensions.

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

 

[Black Dime]

What jcwit said.

 

[ThomasT]

The new GUNS magazine I got today has an article by John Barsness on this very subject. You may want to pick it up and read it.

 

[B yond]

Thanks everybody!

The new GUNS magazine I got today has an article by John Barsness on this very subject. You may want to pick it up and read it.

As it turns out, you can view the entire issue online! I'm kinda excited about that. I don't subscribe to GM, but now I can read the articles I want from it for free online. That's a great resource at a great price.

 

[Slamfire]

I was at the range testing ammo when a friend, Jim showed up. He had accidentally loaded some of his cases with CCI pistol primers. He fired a bunch, did not have any problems, and I chronographed his loads. I first shot one of my loads, with WSR, for a reference, then shot his.

His ammo had those horrible surplus FMJ’s, so accuracy was minute of oil drum, however the pistol primer group was a little tighter.

All I know about his load was that it was IMR 3031 and it was “half a grain from max”.

His ammo functioned fine, no pierced primers or leaking primers.

I don't recommend using pistol primers in a rifle mechanism with a free floating firing pin. It is likely had we used Federal, a very sensitive primer, we might have gotten slamfires.

[SIZE="3"]
DPMS Rifle Mod A-15 Jim’s rifle			
20" 1:9 Chrome Lined barrel					
							
69 Sierra 24.0 grains AA2520 BHA cases WSR (Brass)	OAL 	2.25	
22-Aug-04	T = 75° F
						
Ave Vel =	2865				 	 	
Std Dev =	15				 		
ES =	43				 		 
Low =	2850				 		
High =	2893				 		
N =	6		 	 	 		
			 	 	 		
55 FMJ  24.0? grs IMR 3031 CCI Pistol Primers LC02	Jim's load 1/2 gr off max	
22-Aug-04	T = 75° F
						
Ave Vel =	3053				 	 	
Std Dev =	45				 		
ES =	150				 		
Low =	2990				 		 
High =	3140				 		 
N =	10		 	 	 		
							
55 FMJ  24.0? grs IMR 3031 CCI small rifle primers LC02	Jim's load 1/2 gr off max	
22-Aug-04	T = 75° F
						
Ave Vel =	3114					 	
Std Dev =	49						
ES =	142						
Low =	3040						 
High =	3182						 
N =	10	[/SIZE]

 

[rcmodel]

Regardless that your friend didn't blow any primers, it is still a bad idea.

And we shouldn't promote doing it on THR.

I don't question that it cuts into the margin of safety you have using the correct primers.

And as both of us have noted already, increases the risk of slam-fires in semi-autos.

That is plenty enough reason not to do it right there.

rc

 

[ADKWOODSMAN]

I'm with rcmodel. NO, don't take the chance.

 

[B yond]

I got it. Bad idea.

I guess I'm just going to have to keep looking for small rifle primers.

I might even have to buy (gasp) factory ammo to get my fix until more primers turn up.

 

[Slamfire]

Regardless that your friend didn't blow any primers, it is still a bad idea.

And we shouldn't promote doing it on THR.

I don't question that it cuts into the margin of safety you have using the correct primers.

Agreed.

I don't do it.

Maybe I should have added, I don't know the risk, and my data was for FYI only, and not a suggestion that it is a safe practice.

 

[GeauxTide]

NO! Most Magnum pistols are in the 35-43k PSI range. Modest rifle pressure is 50k. If you do, update your living will and organ donation card, cause gas will be coming your way.