Can you all just stop it? Sheesh.

[Twmaster]

I think right now everyone needs to just SHUT UP. Close yer pie hole. Let this calm down. The NRA was wise to be mum. No good can come from jumping up and down like the anti's are right now.

The same goes for the rest of us. Other than what the opposition is suggesting they are going to do everything else many of you have been saying here is just hot air, doom and gloom fortune telling.

NOBODY here knows what exactly is coming down the sewer pipe at us. Not yet anyway.

Save your energy. There will be a fight. We need all of us to be ready for that fight. We'll need all of you to write letters to your representatives, call in to radio call-in shows, letters to the editor. Polite conversation with everyone you know who might listen to reason.

We cannot effectively counter hysteria. We can effectively counter proposed legislation and regulation.

As the NRA said last election. We need to be ALL IN. Are you? I AM!

Right now we are all getting whipped into a frenzy and it's just making us look bad. Even worse it's making some look like they are ready to toss in the towel. All without a single bill on the table.

So please, sit on your hands and just be quiet for now. Mmm'k?

Thanks for listening.

 

[Trueno]

Either don't click the threads or else turn your computer off.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

If you don't enjoy reading discussions, I would suggest you stop frequenting online forums.

 

[Southside830]

I agree with the OP. Everyone is panicking. Frenzied gun owners are the reason all the mags and ammo are sold out. Like the OP said there has been no action to warrant panicked buying. Calm down people !! You make us all look like morons !!

 

[coloradokevin]

Sorry, but no. While I'm not running around in a panic buying every piece of gun related material I can find, I do realize there is a need to confront this issue directly, and swiftly. I saw how my rights were restricted when we sat on the sidelines and quietly let the last assault weapons ban / magazine capacity ban slip through two houses of Congress and get signed into law in 1994 by the President of the United States. I'm not willing to sit this one out.

Guns aren't the real issue here, and I wouldn't suggest that any of you allow anyone else to guilt you into thinking otherwise. I don't believe it is insensitive to talk about the need to fight gun control laws right now. First, guns were not the root cause of this massacre, rather the cowardly and brutal actions of a worthless madman were. He could have killed just as many defenseless children with a sword. That's reality.

Secondarily, the major (national) anti-gun groups are already OPENLY admitting that they want to quickly capitalize on the media attention that these shootings have received, and use them as a means of passing more guns laws. Personally, I think it is absolutely disgusting that these activists are almost gleefully using this shooting as leverage for their agenda, but that's still a problem for those of us who value our gun rights. As someone who values these rights, I'm not going to see them attacked without defending them intellectually. Having some serious discussions about these issues on a gun forum is a really good idea at this politically critical time. Our fight is going to be reactive in nature: if our rights aren't attacked, we have little to say. But, when powerful people are talking of legally restricting these rights, we need to be ready to respond.

Sit on the sidelines if you'd like, but please consider the following before you do:


-CNN, the Washington Post, the NY Times, and many other national media outlets have had a LOT of negative gun articles running this week, with lots of strongly-worded opinions, and barely any legitimate facts about guns (or gun owners).

-The Mayors Against Gun Violence group (or whatever their name is) has talked about using this publicity to their advantage.

-The Brady Campaign has talked about using this event to their advantage.

-The VPC group has talked of using this event to their advantage.

-Active United States Senators and Representatives have vowed to introduce gun-restricting legislation at the first opportunity in January, during a time when many uninformed people are begging for such laws.

-The United States President has very publicly indicated a desire to reinstate an assault weapons ban, and to seek additional gun laws.

-Many uninformed citizens are having a hard time sorting out fact from fiction on the gun issue, thanks to poorly written news articles that were authored by folks who knew absolutely NOTHING about guns.

 

[michaelbsc]

We can effectively counter proposed legislation and regulation.

If the Pentagon took this strategy we would have been speaking Russian by 1950. You don't wait to counter. You have a plan first. Of course, all plans fall apart on first contact so you have overarching strategies.

... All without a single bill on the table...

I want us to be the ones doing the bill proposing. Not Feinstein and the Brady Bunch.

We should drive, not ride. Everything changed this past week. And unless you forget the "other side" has already been known to say "never let a good crisis go to waste." So you want them to make the first move? Not me.

I want La Pierre's butt at the offices of the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychiatric Nurses Association, the National Institute of Mental Health, and anybody else that might by remotely capable of influencing either mental health research or services delivery saying to them, "the gun owners of America are horrified at the state affairs in mental health, and we are your new champions. I will personally twist the arms off of several Congresscritters to get you whatever you need to identify and help these poor young children who are being failed by the system."

I don't care if he means it or if he cries crocodile tears. I don't know what kind of guy he is. But those Secretaries and Under-Secretaries can smell money, and they are politicians just like the rest of Washington.

Look around here. I've already posted a link to one of those silly White House petitions to put a $2 per gun retail excise tax to fund mental health.

Like it or not, the American public is going to lay this at our feet. I do not care whether anyone thinks mental health is American gun owners's responsibility or not, the American public is going to assign it to us. Or they're going to beat us with it. One of the two. Far better that we take it and do a stupendous job before anyone can pull the rug out from under our feet.

So, no, I am not ready to throw in the towel and admit defeat. But I'm certainly not willing to passively wait to see what kind of gruel they're offering to serve us so we can try to negotiate for better.

The outcome we should be looking for is that before the "gun owners" got involved in advocacy the mental healthcare delivery in America was pretty hit or miss. Gun owners perceived it as an incredibly serious problem to their own ranks, so they started a campaign of mental health advocacy. And the state of American mental health has been fantastic ever since.

Contrast this to the thread that was running here a few months ago that many in the medical field want to classify us a mentally ill just by virtue of gun ownership. We can, and must, use the wedge of dollars, to turn this tide to our side.

Ignore what I'm saying at your peril.

 

[readyeddy]

It is obvious that trolls are pulling our chains with threads talking about the sky falling and confiscation. Take the lead from the NRA and let it rest. All this panicking and talk of concessions and strategy is just feeding our disunity.

Another way of looking at the situation is to realize that at this time, we are looking like a bunch of fanatics to the silent majority. All of our arguments about armed security and proactive measures are not amounting to anything. Nobody wants to hear it.

Let the emotions abate, and then allow the professionals to do what they do with PR, lobbying and coalition building. We should do our part by being calm and courageous.

 

[michaelbsc]

Call me a troll if you want.

The reason that the diving industry is self regulated is because decades ago people were getting killed, and some dive operators got together and said, "If we don't get a handle on this the government will, and it will be far worse if they do it."

So when they formed the various dive associations, which have mostly folded into PADI now, and self-policed, everything went smoothly.

Being proactive worked.

We darned well better be proactive on this. The gun control debate changed this week just exactly like airport security changed Sept. 11, 2001. In a few hours everything was different.

The American public is about as well educated on the issues as .... well, who said you could write it on a 3x5 card and still have room for a cake recipe?


We have to win this by fixing the other side's problem. It will be inadequate to merely defend our own position.

Now, if we'll simply accept that fact - that we have to fix their problem, we can not only win this, but gain ground and improve, because it puts us in a command and control position as the champions for a cause. We're the good guys then. Hell, we haven't been the good guys in decades. And even if we take that strategy it will take a while to get the good guy role embedded.

Can the guys at NRA headquarters figure this out? Sure!

Are the guys at NRA headquarters going to do it? Who knows? They're politicians just as much as the rest of the things on Capitol Hill. And if we don't watch them they'll do what's good for them instead of what's good for us.

One of the stupidest things I ever did was become a life member of the NRA because now all I can do is threaten to quit. I can't threaten to not send the check next year.

 

[Roadking Rider]

No panic here. To many people on both sides of the issue running off pure emotions at the time. Everyone needs to stop take a breath. Lets see exactly what the anti's have on there minds, and we'll fight that fight when we know what we're fighting and at the proper time. This has been a very emotional week for everyone. For now lets take the highroad and let the morners morn and bury there dead. These poor people should not be used as pawns by either side.

 

[mountainpharm]

My letter to my Rep and Senators

Dear XXX,

My heart was torn out when I heard the news regarding the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. As a father of two, I hope I never have to face what those parents in Connecticut experienced on 12/14. It doesn't get worse than that. I pray for the little ones and their loved ones daily, and the horrific nature of what happened still keeps me awake at night. I was up until almost 4 AM last night, in fact. Sandy Hook has shaken every American to the core, myself included.

It was inevitable that the anti-Second Amendment crowd would seize on this tragedy to advance their political agenda, and if news reports are to be believed, Congressmen and Senators previously thought to support the Second Amendment are now joining the opposition (I suspect due to political expediency). The President and his like-minded colleagues in Congress are suggesting a reintroduction of the Assault Weapons Ban from 1994 in response. It would seem to me that a more meaningful approach would be to discuss "why" Sandy Hook happened rather than discuss "how" it was carried out. After all, the worst school massacre in US history didn't involve guns at all.

The very premise regarding a ban of a certain class of weapons is flawed; since when do criminals obey laws? The shooter at Sandy Hook violated countless laws already in existence, more proof that criminals don't care about laws. The only thing a ban will accomplish is the disarming of law-abiding citizens. I would submit that an armed citizen in Sandy Hook Elementary School last Friday could've lessened the death toll and perhaps prevented it altogether. "Gun Free Zones" are notorious killing fields as they often permit high body counts since the law doesn't allow self-defense. I avoid them whenever possible because I don't want to be in a position where I am not permitted to defend the lives of my family. The very notion that my government dictates where, when and if I can defend myself is preposterous at the outset. Further restricting my ability to do so is no answer to what happened on Dec. 14th.

That said, if a gun control debate is going to happen, let us follow the prescribed method for doing so: a revision or outright repeal of the Second Amendment. Those who wish to restrict or abolish lawful gun ownership need to pursue their goals by amending our Constitution. If the Second Amendment only applies to hunters, it needs to be amended as such because it certainly doesn't say that now. The Second Amendment reads in part "...shall not be infringed" and therefore any effort to limit the right to keep and bear arms can only be accomplished by amending the supreme law of the land.

In closing, I urge you to stand firm on your support of the Second Amendment and oppose any efforts to further restrict lawful gun ownership, including a so-called Assault Weapons Ban.

May God comfort the victims and families of Sandy Hook Elementary School, and may God bless the United States of America.

 

[mcdonl]

The weekend after the shootings, it was appropriate to just stay quite out of respect of the victims of a terrible crime. Now, it is time to fight loud and often for our rights. This **IS** the perfect place to start because it is misinformed gun owners who will cause the largest amount of problems for us, not the anti's....

At a club meeting last night, I hear the following...

(While discussing needing a new range office because of some recent range issues a club member said...) "He swung around and pointed his assault weapon right at me..."

(When discussing someone shooting full auto it was said....) "It is illegal to own, let alone shoot machine guns in the US....."

We need to continue the discussions and educate each other and those around us now more than ever.

So no, I will not shut my pie hole and swallow what Big Brother wants to feed me.

 

[michaelbsc]

Dear XXX,

My heart was torn out when I heard the news regarding the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

[...]

In closing, I urge you to stand firm on your support of the Second Amendment and oppose any efforts to further restrict lawful gun ownership, including a so-called Assault Weapons Ban.

May God comfort the victims and families of Sandy Hook Elementary School, and may God bless the United States of America.

The problem here is that you're retreating into exactly the same space we've been retreating into forever.

That's not going to work any more. Not because anything you said was wrong. But because the problem of identifying mentally ill patients is going to get handed to us. We must accept the fact that we have to solve their problem or they're going to hammer us. Too bad if we don't like it. So I say we need to make their heads swim at how good a job we do.

Getting 2A back after we run out all the congresscritters that betray us will take longer than most of us will live if its possible at all.

Everybody says, "It's a mental health problem, not a gun control problem." Then in the next sentence they talk about gun bans. We need to make the next sentence become how to solve the mental health problem.

I threw this out already. Granted these White House petitions are propaganda BS, and two paragraphs has no meaningful details at all. But this pushes conversation to "solving the mental health problem" rather than banning guns. The gun ban petition got 10k signatures an hour.


http://wh.gov/nTna

Here's some more information about this petition:

*$2 Federal Excise on Handguns and Long Guns earmarked for Mental Health Services*

Recent shootings have focused national attention on gun violence. The dramatic events in Newton, CT involved a young male. The Aurora, CO event
involved a young male. The Tucson, AZ event involved a young male. Others were the same. And a connecting thread is that these young men were mentally ill, which is not a condition they voluntarily chose. These are failures of the nation's mental health system, not failures of gun control.

We should establish a $2 per handgun or long gun point of retail excise tax earmarked for mental health services to improve the state of the nation's capacity to identify and treat patients in need. These funds
should not be part of the general fund, and this excise tax funds the benefit just like hunting licenses fund wildlife management.

 

[Trueno]

*$2 Federal Excise on Handguns and Long Guns earmarked for Mental Health Services*

Please tell me this is a joke. Will there also be a $2 tax on each 6-pack of beer to pay for counseling to prevent domestic violence?



side note:
91 deaths in car accidents every day, 28 of them involve drunk driving.

We should establish a $2 per handgun or long gun point of retail excise tax earmarked for mental health services to improve the state of the nation's capacity to identify and treat patients in need. These funds
should not be part of the general fund, and this excise tax funds the benefit just like hunting licenses fund wildlife management.

Sort of like SS taxes are earmarked for SS? Uh huh, you betcha, roger that.


Stop it, just stop it already.

t

 

[Trueno]

The problem here is that you're retreating into exactly the same space we've been retreating into forever.

No, the problem is we haven't deported the treasonous bastards that keep trying to usurp the Bill of Rights. Can't hang them publicly, can't shoot them in front of televised firing squads...yet.

t

 

[michaelbsc]

Please tell me this is a joke. Will there also be a $2 tax on each 6-pack of beer to pay for counseling to prevent domestic violence?

All of the White House petitions are a joke on the American people. They're a feel good BS box to make people think the government is listening.

But they're a tool to be used as a public campaign. Nothing more or less. Sorry you can't see the usefulness of it.

Right now the gun owners of America are perceived as a bunch of cave dwelling Kaczynski types who don't give a tinker's damn about the "real world" out there.

We need to look like we give a damn about this. Trying to help focus attention on mental healthcare will cost us absolutely nothing in RKBA. But if we let the discussion be about guns instead of mental health we're screwed.

You want to focus the discussion on the real problem, the mental health issues.

 

[Trent]

Wait.

Let me get this straight.

You come on to a PRO GUN discussion board.

And you tell people to SHUT UP and don't talk about guns?

Mods, please restrain me before I earn an infraction or three.

 

[Robert]

We are a discussion board. It is what we do. I agree that everything is just speculation at this point, it does not hurt to start getting our ducks in a row.