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Can you believe it - Another suicide at my range.

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I think this topic is gun related. A suicide occuring at a range causes problems for all shooters/gun owners not to mention the tragic loss of life.

This seems to occur way too often lately. It's something all shooters and range workers need to watch out for. This kind of activity could lead to ranges going out of business and that hurts the sport.
 
At the range where I work we've seen membership double since last Oct. and we're getting a ton of new shooters, it's scary as hell. Over the past 3 weeks I've booted 8 people because they don't know how to follow basic safety rules. Ever since I read about the mother killing her son in FL I've been more alert and try to watch everything, it used to be enjoyable but now I've turned into a "cop". We don't rent guns, (thank God) but people have been bringing new guns out here that don't have a clue on how to shoot them. I try to keep most of them as close to center as I can but with over 40 bays occupied it's hard to do.
 
A good Range Master probably could see it coming...and, 'hover' with a presence which could discourage the would-be suicide. And or intervene physically.


Not all Ranges, indoor or outdoor, have 'Good' Rangemasters.

Other Shooters are usually busy with their own Targets, and practice.
 
In the late '70s and early '80s there was a spurt of suicides at gun counters in retail stores. Customers would come in and ask to look at a gun. When the clerk was distracted they would drop a round in the gun and blow their brains out.

I used to buy a lot of guns at Montgomery Ward in Tucson. A guy came in and did that there and they got out of the handgun business about a month later.

The sad truth is these self-destructive people are so self-centered they don't consider anything or anyone but themselves. We gun owners must remember, these people will find a way to do themselves in. They just find an easy way and gun rental places offer an easy opportunity.

I know it is difficult when you are personally involved, but you just have to get over it and move on.

Years ago as a rookie reporter I had to cover a murder. It turned out that all four victims were relatively close friends. It was extremely difficult. I've always been a shooter, but that is what turned me into a defensive shooter and eventually a self defense instructor.

This stuff happens. Don't let it get to you and move on in your thinking. Most importantly stand your ground for what you believe is right.

We, gun owners, are attacked on every front these days. We can't be anymore responsible for the poor sick suckers who commit these acts than the doctors who let them roam the streets or the legislators who close the doors to the mental hospitals.

Let it make you stronger, more vigilant and more steadfast.
 
Possibly...it would be like 'seeing' a thief...

You can see the paralinguistics...'feel' the vibe...you know somehing is 'up'...


Like that.

A person about to pop themselves will have a focus, a restrained imminence, a 'presence' about them...and it'd be hard for them not to.

An experienced/perceptive person could tell something's-up...same as 'seeing' a Shoplifter ( even who has not stolen yet, but will in a moment), or as may be.

No human intention is invisible...there's only how well one sees...tunes 'in'...notices...


I've been around some very 'good' Rangemamsters...I'd bet they would have been onto this sort of thing, and 'hovered' close to the person, even if they did not know quite 'why'...
 
"A person about to pop themselves will have a focus, a restrained imminence, a 'presence' about them...and it'd be hard for them not to."

I'm sorry, but that's not true. I was standing right next to a guy who jumped off a multi-story car park about ten years back. There was absolutely nothing to suggest what he was about to do. He looked a little flustered - like he couldn't remember where he'd parked his car. Next second, heyup, up and over the wall. Splat. Fell right on top of a car exiting the park too - didn't die immediately either. He was still alive ten minutes after I'd called it in. Selfish sod seriously injured the driver too. It's all over too quick for the most part - and at a range you're never going to stop someone from doing it. It's wrong to put that load on a range officer - psycho-analyzing is not in his remit. Obvious poor range behaviour and assistance with stoppages etc is his / her job.
 
I like the outdoor ranges that have fairly low traffic. I don't think I'd be able to properly focus on shooting at a busy indoor range, I'd be too focused on the other shooters and how safe they are being. I've had enough close calls at the outdoor range. Things like people not watching where they are pointing guns or rifles blowing up near me and getting hit by shrapnel and nearly skewered by falling pieces of barrel :rolleyes: . One time a van with an adult backed up to the firing line and a bunch of kids piled out of the side (not teenagers, but 8-13 yo) swinging rifles around running up to the firing line and started shooting .22's all over the place as the guy sat there in the driver seat, I packed up as quickly as I could and left. :banghead:
 
Do they require a background check for gun rentals? I'm not sure I would want to rent guns at a range....there are probably pro's an cons to it though...I'm just thinking I wouldn't want a novice to rent a gun an go out alone to the range.
 
I read in the other thread about it that at the range where the murder/suicide and other suicide took place, they are going to start doing it for rentals unless you have a CCW. I'm against it, only because I don't support any type of restrictions on the 2nd, but I can see why they would want to do it.
 
I hope they don't start requiring a background check. Part of the main event for me visiting my relies Stateside is that I can walk in off the street, pay my money for a rental and unwind for a few hours in their range.
 
This range rented to a LONE customer. If they stop that and they'll prevent suicides there 99.99%. You'd think they would have changed their policy after the first incident.
 
There's no point being sniffy about this. People always have topped themselves, and they always will, and guns are a convenient mechanism. Just be grateful he didn't take a few punters with him, as so many of them do.

If a gun suicide isn't gun-related, then someone's being over-sensitive.
 
This range rented to a LONE customer. If they stop that and they'll prevent suicides there 99.99%. You'd think they would have changed their policy after the first incident.
Click to expand...

I am surprised all ranges don't have that rule in place.


1) Don't rent guns to people who come alone, unless they have a gun of their own with them already and just want to try something different.

Implement that 1 rule and you could stop most of these.

About half the ranges I go to around the country have that rule, the other half don't.
 
My outdoor range with no employees has rules posted but no rangemaster to enforce them.

With a $50 a year membership I get a combination to the gate and can go and come anytime. I go at least once a week and about 25% of the time I'm the only one there.

Yes, I know I'm lucky.
 
This range rented to a LONE customer. If they stop that and they'll prevent suicides there 99.99%. You'd think they would have changed their policy after the first incident.
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Doesn't always work. A couple of months ago at the Shoot Straight range outside of Orlando, a mother shot her son, then herself. Who would've seen that one coming?
 
The old Shooter's Paradise in Virginia would not give a booth to a lone shooter, except for LEO and military (ID required). That rule applied whether you were renting a gun or brought your own. Seemed like a pretty reasonable rule.
 
Doesn't always work. A couple of months ago at the Shoot Straight range outside of Orlando, a mother shot her son, then herself. Who would've seen that one coming?
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Actually from what I read of the story, EVERYBODY pretty much saw that coming EXCEPT the range, she had a very long history of mental problems, and the son knew it.

Of course you're not going to stop something like that, but most of these are a lone guy just looking for a way to get hold of a gun.
 
Everybody except those at the range.
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Yeah I edited my post right after I read it.

Point is that it's MOSTLY loners looking for suicide guns.

It's going to be nearly impossible to keep a true psychopath out.

Big difference between a depressed suicidal individual and a complete nutcase looking to murder her child.
 
Why can't people keep it traditional and throw themselves under a train instead of making life difficult for shooters?
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I wonder if train-related forums get "I can't believe it, another suicide" posts every time someone jumps under a train.

Many anti-gun arguments center around suicide. They miss the point that suicidal people want to die. That's almost a definition of sick. Making suicide harder --restricting access to guns, for example-- does nothing but torment an already sick person. I have known a sick person who spent 6 months researching suicide methods, growing more and more frustrated because so many of the "effective" methods had legal barriers. The laws designed to make it harder for him to commit suicide did nothing but force him to do a great deal of unhealthy research and basically made a sick person even sicker. A caring society doesn't do that. A caring society would either work to remove the sickness...which often means curing degenerative diseases or blocking a great deal of pain...or honor an individual's right to self-determination.
 
Many anti-gun arguments center around suicide. They miss the point that suicidal people want to die. That's almost a definition of sick. Making suicide harder --restricting access to guns, for example-- does nothing but torment an already sick person.
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This came up the other day in one of the "gun law" threads and the statistics showed that when the Brady Law first went into effect, with a waiting period, that gun suicides dropped by almost 57%.

The total suicide rate, however, dropped NONE. NADA. ZERO.

They will find a way if that's the decision that has been made.
 
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