can you tell if a bullet forensically was 38 special vs 357 mag

[Texas10mm]

The 38 may be a softer alloy, then a mag 357 lead bullet.

Bullet alloy may be matched to a box of ammo. If the ammo is still in possession of the bad guy.

FBI https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/a...cience-communications/fsc/july2002/peters.htm

Example
metal wt. %
______________________________________

Copper 0.038
Arsenic 0.16
Antimony3.0
Tin 0.25
Zinc 0.0001
Cadmium 0.0001
Nickel <.0001
Bismuth 0.018
Silver 0.0038
Tellurium 0.0015
Sulfur 0.0005
Iron <.0001
Lead Balance

This "theory" has been discredited.

 

[WheelGunMan]

aha but that is the issue. you can't say without the gun and the casing that it was a 357 magnum that killed the victim. as Z1D2 said it may even be 38 +p ha ha ha. the replies are very interesting.

Very true. The correct way to would be to generalize and state "the victim was killed by a .357"...that covers a lot of bases.

 

[bersaguy]

Well sure, you got your 38spl:

And your 357mag:

Common knowledge that your 380's, 38's barely penetrate heavy clothing, where magnums blow gaping holes thru everything
But really, no...not so much. The recovered rounds would be identical

 

[Carl N. Brown]

"But in Hollywood 6 shot revolvers shoot more than 6 shots without a reload ..."

There was even a scripted gun fight scene that required the cowboy to put his empty Colt SAA in his holster and pull a loaded SAA out of his belt to continue the fight but the gun swap ended up on the cutting room floor because the editor felt it slowed down the action. I don't recall the movie title but the screenwriter, the director, the actor were mad that the finished scene made it seem he fired twelve shots from one gun.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have read a book on forensic pathology with a fairly representative section on wounds and firearms ballistics. The subject is not as easy or as clear as it is made to appear in the movies.

 

[tipoc]

That was actually pretty easy for a forensic team to surmise. The actual bullet of a .38 Special and a .357 Magnum has a diameter of.357.

If they can get a true measurement on it. Which is not as easy as some may think as bullets deform. I'ts also the case that that .357 diameter has a tolerance on it of .0005 either way in practice.

The original bullet diameter for the 38 acp/38 Super was .358. Now it tends to be .355 the same as the 9mm. The 380 is still officially .356 according to my Lee's reloading manual.
Of course there is some tolerance on barrels as well.

In the real world crime labs aren't always like the well done labs in CSI. Quite often they are a trailer or portable building in the back lot.

tipoc

 

[beag_nut]

Being an afficianado of females, I find that Marisa Tomei to be the main attraction of that movie. I simply adore her in that movie. Especially when she shows her car-mechanic skills/knowledge at the end.

 

[WheelGunMan]

Being an afficianado of females, I find that Marisa Tomei to be the main attraction of that movie. I simply adore her in that movie. Especially when she shows her car-mechanic skills/knowledge at the end.

Yep!! a raging beauty who can quote car specs!! If she is a gun lover too...she'd be....."The Perfect Woman"

 

[Speedo66]

( Listening to a forensic pathologist describe autopsy findings is almost on par with the second level of Courtroom Hell. The first level of Courtroom Hell belongs to forensic accountants in a white collar crime case.)

You forgot how stultifying jury selection is. "Jurors, this part of the trial is known as the 'voir dire', it's Latin for slow death".

 

[Riomouse911]

Indeed...I rarely sit for voir dire as a designated "IO" or Investigating Officer", that is 99 times out of 100 handled solo by the assigned DA. I have sat through many trials as an IO, and the paper ones can be punishment even for those who know the case and wrote the reports...

Stay safe!

 

[beag_nut]

You forgot how stultifying jury selection is. "Jurors, this part of the trial is known as the 'voir dire', it's Latin for slow death".

Wrong! It translates as "to see to speak", literally. Not that it affects anything posted so far.

 

[MedWheeler]

Carl N. Brown writes:

There was even a scripted gun fight scene that required the cowboy to put his empty Colt SAA in his holster and pull a loaded SAA out of his belt to continue the fight but the gun swap ended up on the cutting room floor because the editor felt it slowed down the action. I don't recall the movie title but the screenwriter, the director, the actor were mad that the finished scene made it seem he fired twelve shots from one gun.

Beginning of the final showdown in Open Range. Kevin Costner was the actor involved (starred with Robert Duvall.) Excellent movie.

 

[Speedo66]

Wrong! It translates as "to see to speak", literally. Not that it affects anything posted so far.

Look up the definition of sarcasm.... see what it translates to, literally.

 

[Stumper]

243Winxb, While the FBI did indeed play that metalurgical match "science" and got a conviction......it is barnyard effluvia. Foundry pours of lead are measured in tons-which translates into many thousands of bullets with identical metalurgy.

 

[Gridley]

You can even look for colored flakes in the gunpowder to determine year made and brand.

This one I hadn't heard before.

And I now have a sudden desire to pull the bullets from a box of ammo and replace them with ones that have never been loaded by that manufacturer just on the chance that it messes up someone's forensics someday...

...probably a good thing I don't have a reloading press.

Yet.

 

[robhof]

And don't forget the other 357! It can also shoot the lighter 38 bullets, but then you're getting into supersonic territory...

 

[Z1D2]

I seriously doubt anyone could tell the difference.

But in Hollywood 6 shot revolvers shoot more than 6 shots without a reload, and Jason Bourne can kill you with a pen. So what do we know?

Case in point, try to count Kevin C's Rounds...

 

[Olon]

I always wondered how the heck the detectives could take one look at an ejected 9mm case and declare the exact make and model that fired it! Yup TV is awesome. No wonder why so many people are scared to death of guns. Way too many of those darn 9mm Glock sniper pistols floating around out there.

Especially with full-semi-auto capabilities and the dreaded hi capacity magazine clip