Canon USA demands employees reveal CHL or be terminated

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Just another excuse for me as a photographer to swear by Nikon, I don't touch anything canon related. I have many reasons, so now I'll just add this one to my list:D
 
Swing and a miss

People are quick to say they want the government to butt out of their personal matters, but when it comes to something that would benefit them they're all for government involvement.
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Personal matters: as in stuff that is, well, personal, having nothing work-related involved. Is having a CHL illegal? Is having a CHL a precursor to violence in the workplace at Canon? If one acquires a CHL and currently has only long guns, is that somehow OK?

You see, I don't have any CHOICE about doing business with the government. I do have a choice about doing business with or being employed by Canon.
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Canon allegedly is using a GOVERNMENT list of GOVERNMENT-assigned licenses which have absolutely nothing to do with job performance or suitability of employment...you missed that part.
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Oh how quickly we forget: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Explain how one can have ANY "rights" when they are subject to infringment...as long as it is by a non-governmental entity...OR you're saying KABA (amongst other "rights") isn't a fundamental "right" after all, KABA (and everything else) is a privilege. Which is it?
 
Personal matters: as in stuff that is, well, personal, having nothing work-related involved. Is having a CHL illegal? Is having a CHL a precursor to violence in the workplace at Canon? If one acquires a CHL and currently has only long guns, is that somehow OK?
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Oh I agree that its a dumb policy, I just don't see why the government should be expected to intervene. If the employer and employee can't settle the matter they should part ways.

Canon allegedly is using a GOVERNMENT list of GOVERNMENT-assigned licenses which have absolutely nothing to do with job performance or suitability of employment...you missed that part.
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Perhaps the voters need to go to the source of the problem them and make sure that information isn't made available.

Oh how quickly we forget: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Explain how one can have ANY "rights" when they are subject to infringment...as long as it is by a non-governmental entity
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If I employ you I won't let you say anything you want on the job. Am I denying you your freedom of speech? Walmart won't let me hand out pamphlets at the front door, is that a violation of my freedom of press? I bet I can't practice my religion at your place of work. You're free to exercise your rights at any time, they are free to discontinue your employment as well. You decide which you want to do.

We're just a step away from saying working is the same as being kidnapped for 8 hours a day. :neener:
 
Soy,

Would you be OK with Canon not hiring people of a certain religion?

What about them not hiring white people?

You obviously don't take your right too seriously in my opinion. But
that's just me.
 
If I employ you I won't let you say anything you want on the job. Am I denying you your freedom of speech? Walmart won't let me hand out pamphlets at the front door, is that a violation of my freedom of press? I bet I can't practice my religion at your place of work. You're free to exercise your rights at any time, they are free to discontinue your employment as well. You decide which you want to do.
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Again, the extreme apologists would have no problem dictating what I can say OFF the job, telling me I can't hand out any pamphlets AWAY from the job, or restricting what religion I can practice on MY OWN TIME. The issue isn't about bringing a gun to work or if guns in the parking lot are OK, it's if you've ever applied for a license. See post #1. Canon is allegedly freaking out because if you apply for a CHL, you MUST own a gun - thereby prohibiting you from OWNING a gun, even the single-shot .22LR that the Brady Bunch will allow you to keep. If true, if they can get away with it, others will follow. A couple companies besides Scotts ban smoking on personal time; more than a few have searches for "contraband" that is legal to own and possess - just not in their parking lots. Why is this a good thing?

We're just a step away from saying working is the same as being kidnapped for 8 hours a day. :neener:
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Well, you could make that a condition of employment :uhoh: Apparently it would be heartily endorsed then...
 
I was going to call Canon in Irving, TX and see what they had to say. However, there is no phone listing for them. Dallas and Ft. Worth listings only. Anyone have any information about the Irving facility?
 
If this was a decision that some local manager made, then corporate needs to hear about it just as much as if it was a headquarters decision.

I'm not going to be buying or recommending Canon stuff until they clear it up. And I've specced a LOT of high end stuff...
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Why have you assumed that based on an unsubstantiated second hand report from a single source that this matter is even true? Yes, TSRA is a good organization, but we don't know their source for the claims and even Canon USA does not know of the alledged matter...as per the information we have.
 
Here ya' go:

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/nad/locations.html
Southwest Zone, Irving, TX (972) 409.7800

And here's the address:

3200 Regent Blvd
Irving, TX , 75063-3145

(Sorry, that was meant to be a reply to Elza)

When I got my CHL 4 years ago, the instructor (Who's name I can't recall) mentioned that there was a Japanese based company in the metroplex that fired anyone with a CHL, but he refused to divulge the company's name... I'm willing to get this was it, but as has been said, I'm not ready to condemn Canon until this can be verified one way or the other, but if it is confirmed, then (peaceful!) action will DEFINITELY be required!
 
I had been in the market for a new camera for a while, and done my research. Canon was one of the finalists. Because of their stand on concealed carry, I bought another brand.

I also e-mailed them and told them why I didn't buy a Canon now and wouldn't buy from them in the future!
 
I don't understand where the line is these days. We see cases where companies fire employees when nicotine is detected in their system...even if the employee has never smoked on the job. They say that they aren't being discriminatory, that smoking is unhealthy and will raise their health insurance premiums. It just so happens that smoking isn't "PC". Owning a firearm isn't "PC" to a lot of people also. I wonder what would happen if they applied their way of thinking to some more "PC" issues.

So...wouldn't the same thing apply for people of a specific race that is more prone to a certain disease? What about being overweight? What about genetics? If you had a long history of a deadly disease in your family couldn't they fire you for that also? After all.....you could cost them more in insurance. What about someone who sky dives or rides a motorcycle? What about someone who drives a car that has a low safety rating? You could probably find a million "risky" behaviors out there. I wonder if they can fire someone for how they vote in an election too. There's a reason to fire just about everyone isn't there? Hmmmm...."Attention everyone. You're fired"!
 
Thanks ya'll, I look forward to hearing the outcome of the phonecall(s)...

BTW... Just found it interesting, the way I found ya'll and this thread - I got the TSRA alert, and decided to try to research it myself...

Googling on "canon CHL" this thread is the #1 listing...

So I guess this thread IS the authority on this issue...

I'm too lazy to do it, but has anyone tried contacting the TSRA and requesting information as to where they got this from?
 
Does anyone know if private citizens can record voice conversations legally? I know police/private investigators must disclose the fact for use in court, but how about just a formal complaint to a corporate headquarters? I'd like to record my conversation tomorrow
 
According to this page (And several others like it I found):

http://www.aapsonline.org/judicial/telephone.htm

Texas is a "One Party State" which, from my understanding, means that if at least one person on the call knows it's being recorded (That would be you) it's okay, even if the other party is not made aware that the call's being recorded...


(Standard IANAL (I am not a lawyer) disclaimers apply, of course)


(For reference, additional sites listing Texas as a One Party State in regards to taping phone conversations:

http://www.pimall.com/nais/n.tel.tape.law.html
http://www3.dncsolution.com/marketing/reginfo/reginfo4.asp
http://www.callcorder.com/phone-recording-law-america.htm
Tx. Penal Code § 16.02. )
 
Soy,

Would you be OK with Canon not hiring people of a certain religion?

What about them not hiring white people?

You obviously don't take your right too seriously in my opinion. But
that's just me.
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I believe they have the right to do so, just as I would have the right to boycot them and tell all my friends to do so for them to do it.

I look at it alot like I look at freedom of speech. The government will not censor your speech, you're free to say the dumbest thing that pops into your head. If what you say is a message like what fred phelps says that might mean you're ostracized by society. If your message is that of zumbo you might put yourself out of work. If an employer wants to discriminate, let them and let the free market react accordingly. What you're saying is that the consumers who buy their products are too stupid to punish the provider for bad behavior. I already see people in this thread posting that they're going to stop buying canon products despite not even having proof of this happening. Why do we need big brother to intervene when the free market can already take care of the problem?

I take all my rights seriously but I also don't want to use government to trample on others rights for my own personal benefit. I do not believe I have the right to use government to guarantee that an employer can't make whatever stupid policy they want.
 
My letter to Canon:

I am writing to give notice that I strongly disagree with your policy concerning CHLs (Concealed Handgun Licensees) at your Irving TX facility.
Although I realize that this is your corporate policy and as such you may do what you wish. I must respond by saying that I, as a Canon customer, will NEVER purchase another Canon product. I love my ELPH and was considering one of your printers but I will now purchase an HP printer and do the utmost to convince my friends to do the same. The second amendment and the right to protect oneself is sacred to many of us. There are over 90 million gun owners in the USA. It would do you well to respect us not just as a customer base but as people.
 
Here's what I got from the TSRA in response to my inquiry:

I have an excert from the employee manual, titled "Concealed Weapons Policy". The following will serve as a reaffirmation of Canon USA., Inc's long standing policy of strictly prohibiting the "possession of firearms, explosives or any other weapon on company premises" (See current edition "Inside Canon U.S.A.-A Handbook for Employees")

Section B All employees, who are residents of the State of Texas, are required to confirm, with the regional Human Resources Manager, whether they have:

- Applied for or been issued a license to carry a handgun;
-Been denied a license to carry a handgun;
had their licensed to carry a handgun revoked, suspended or limited in any way;
-been charged with or convicted of violating any law or regulation relating to concealed handguns

The Company may, from time to time, obtain this information from the Texas Department of Public Safety, under the Texas Open Records Act. Any employee who misleads or actively prevents the Company from obtaining information regarding their status as a licensed handgun permit holder will be immediately terminated.

The underlining and italics are mine, the words are theirs.

This was sent to me by a concealed handgun instructor in Irving after hearing stories from Canon employees of how they hesitated to take the class out of fear of company retribution.

I probably won't get any volunteers from Canon to testify. I don't know the number of employees or if there are other Texas companies with this type of intimidating policy in place. However, this is a policy that absolutely goes beyond the workplace, beyond the parking lot. It follows you home and lives where you live through the life of your employment with this company.
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Has anyone asked if Canon's NJ location has the same policy on the books?

Hmmm... then again, it's NJ... are they even allowed to get carry permits up there?
 
I take all my rights seriously but I also don't want to use government to trample on others rights for my own personal benefit. I do not believe I have the right to use government to guarantee that an employer can't make whatever stupid policy they want.
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Well put! It should be (and is) OUR job to make sure companies like this suffer for their policy.

David
 
Canon Gear for Sale

After buying Canon camera gear since 1968, I have the following Canon equipment for sale:
· Canon 20D 8.2mp digital camera body
· Canon EF-S 18-155mm lens
· Canon EF 24-105mm image stabilized lens
· Canon EF 100-400mm image stabilized lens

I have purchased a Nikon D200 10mp camera body and a 17-200mm VR lens

I'm seriously disappointed with Canon's anti Second Amendment policy. Since the change, I have discovered that Nikon makes superior digital photography equipment.
 
So much for talking to the folks at Canon. Tried three times and got nowhere. The calls ended with “recording” followed by a hang-up. No announcements or instructions other than a voice that says “recording”.

I find this a rather odd way to operate a business. Unless, of course, they are getting the snot hammered out of them. :evil:
 
Nikon, Sony, all the way. Canon EOS sucked for my professional photo job anyway. It was great outside but didnt do what we needed. So while I didn't need another reason, here's to no more Canon eq!

ST

ps - rights may not mean much to them, nor safety, nor liberty, but $ does let your wallet count and tell them so so they know at least one reason why sales may be dipping (other than crap eq)
 
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