Carry Gun: Walther PPK or S&W .38 Snub

[Ala Dan]

Actually, I've carried both a Walther PPK/S or a quality .38 caliber snub
at one time or another over the year's~! My PPK/S (I've owned 2)
were made in Germany, and were extremely reliable. Nowdays, we have
an American made Walther PPK (from '95), also in .380 ACP that is very
reliable. But, in my way of thinking sooner or later any semi-auto
is subject too lay down on you in time of need~! Yes, I still carry
semi-auto's till this day; but I keep 'em properly maintained and I am
fully aware of how to clear a malfunction.

BTW, I do sometimes alternate the carry of a quality .38 caliber snub
with that of my semi-auto's.

 

[Pilot]

My wife carries a S&W 642 with the CT laser grips and loves it. I often carry a Beretta M85FS in .380 and I think of them as relatively equal ballistically. The Beretta's 4 inch barrel and +P .380's help a lot. The 642 is lighter and more concealable however.

 

[m0ntels]

I dont know if I'd call ALL the PPK/S stories old. It was 2 yrs ago with about a year old gun. If they've changed since then I couldnt tell you cuz I havent looked to try one again after the first time. Different people shoot different guns for many reasons, and ergonomics is a big one. It wouldnt matter to me if I was the only person in the world that got cut by a PPK, because it did cut me. Why would I buy a gun that hurt me to shoot? I dont knock the PPK for anything, other than that for me it was a biter.

I've heard stories of the BHP biting tons of people too, and the same number of people will tell you it is the best auto ever made. If someone asks me to shoot one, I wont say know just because I've heard a story. But I had heard the PPK will bite larger hands, so before shelling out the money, I rented one, and I'll be damned, I got bit.

Try before you buy is a good policy if it's at all possible. That's what I did, and it saved me a bunch of money and hassle. No one can tell you how any particular gun will shoot for you. Rent some, ask other people if you can try out one of theirs, or take the gamble and spend away. Same old story as always.

Randy

 

[Thain]

All the FLGS in my area that have ranges and rentals don't rent Walthers. Which depresses me to no end, because I'd love to squeeze of a few boxes on a P99. (I'm a big fan of the P99, using it for years in airsoft. Although I've never handled the "real steel" gun.)

My CCW needs are all the typical: small or I won't carry it, decent stopping power, and accuracy. I also need something I can carry in a short sleeve button-up dress shirt, Dockers, and no jacket. (Business casual dress for my sales job, and alot of time spent in hot RVs on the lot, or sitting at my desk being bored.)

I'm convinced the .380 or .38 are good enough and close enough for my defensive needs. I'm a Used RV Salesman, not an off-duty cop, so I forsee most encounters will be with 'mere' muggers and other street criminals.

Just pulling a gun should resolve most of these conflicts (statistically anyway) and putting a bullet or two into them should wrap up the conflict if brandishing doesn't (agian, goign by statistics).

Both guns have been around, been covertly carried, and been trusted for the better part of a century. American cops have loved their .38's forever and a day, European cops have loved their PPKs.

From the feedback here, I'm going to conclude that the best idea is simpy to try them both, and pick the one that fits me better.

Maybe I can find a way to "test drive" a Walther, given their price I'm sure the FLGS is more than willing to do what it takes to sell me one.

Good news is that my wife refuses to trust autoloaders, so we'll be getting at least one .38 snubby for her... Worst case scenario, I get the PPK for me and borrow her snub when I want to play with a wheelgun at the range.

 

[MICHAEL T]

One last thing 2 times here I saw 380+P their is no 380+P as approved by SAMMI . No numbers have ever been set like 38+P or 9+P Their some hot ammo from europe and Corbon about tops here but none are +P. If you see that on 380 its a come on..

 

[Thain]

Allow me to display some ignorance, but what is SAMMI and why do I care for what they've approved?

I gather they are some type of industry assoc.?

 

[P-35/53]

If both guns are reliable comes down to which suits your method of carry and which you shoot best and are most comfortable with.

 

[cookekdjr]

I have a 342PD, the titanium version of the 642. It weighs 10.8 oz.
Its not flashy or exciting, and it only holds 5 rounds. From time to time (especially when I'm broke) I think about selling it.
But then I think about what I'd replace it with. Which would be a 642, the same gun, only 15oz instead of 10.8oz.
Then I put the 342 back in my pocket, and start thinking about what other gun I can sell, b/c the 342 is just too useful.
There's a reason lightweight J-frames have been produced for decades...and will continue to be.
-David

 

[Father Knows Best]

642

I got a really nice Walthers/Interarms stainless PPK/s in trade about a year ago. Last month, I traded it away for a Swede Mauser. Why? Because the trigger was the worst piece of trash I have ever felt. The double action pull for the first shot is long and HEAVY! And I mean HEAVY! My Lyman digital trigger gauge couldn't get a reading on it, because the gauge maxes out at 12 pounds and that was nowhere close to where the trigger started to move. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with the first shot on that thing. The single action trigger pull wasn't bad, but of course there is no safe way to carry it with the hammer back. I looked into having a 'smith lighten it up, but they all said the same thing: that's just the way it is -- a byproduct of the PPK's design. In other words, "live with it." I couldn't.

I also got the dreaded slide bite a few times.

It was reliable, and fed hollowpoints just fine (some apparently don't). Accuracy was acceptable, though the sights were pretty poor.

The 642, on the other hand, is a gem. It's lighter, and shoots a more powerful cartridge. It will not jam, EVER. The trigger is smooth and consistent from shot to shot. With a set of crimson trace lasergrips, it's an awesome CCW gun.

Allow me to display some ignorance, but what is SAMMI and why do I care for what they've approved?

I gather they are some type of industry assoc.?

It's SAAMI, not SAMMI. It stands for the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturer's Institute. They publish specifications for cartridges, including acceptable pressure levels. They have standards for +P and +P+ for some cartridges, so if you see a 9 mm +P or a .38 special +P, you know what you're getting. The point is that there is no SAAMI standard for a .380 "+P", so you really have no idea how ammo marked as such is loaded. Since the PPK isn't designed for anything over standard .380 pressures, anyway, you shouldn't try it.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Thanks for correcting the SAAMI I'm not home where my cheat sheet is. I guess that time Father Knows Best was true. . As to trigger on PPK/s its a close range SD pistol and you won't notice heavy trigger it if for real. I have gotton use yo mine and can hit very well first shot. I still find trigger to be lighter than Beretta tom cat on DA and SA

 

[Technosavant]

I just recently went through the "pocket gun conundrum" and ended up choosing a S&W 642 (the thread is around here somewhere, shouldn't be too far down the list). I felt that the PPK/Bersa Thunder sized guns would likely be too long for good pocket carry; while thin, I was worried about the butt sticking out of my pocket. I was looking hardest at the Beretta Tomcat (shoots the less powerful .32ACP round), but I just worried too much about the lack of ability of that thing. It felt great in the hand, would conceal very well, was of high quality, but there isn't much point in having a gun if it won't get the job done. The 2" revolvers (be they a S&W 638 or 642 or the Taurus 851) do fit well in Dockers-type pant pockets (you WILL want a pocket holster), are the standard for reliability itself, and the .38spl is plenty competent (it isn't up to the .45ACP, but guns that shoot that round can't be pocket carried).

I even shot my 642 at the range today, both 130grn "regular" FMJ and 125grn +P SJHP ammo. I could tell the +P kicked slightly harder, but I did mix the ammo in the cylinder (x of regular, y of +P), and it was not always easy to tell which was which. Recoil was VERY manageable, even though my pinky (curled under) get a bit sore after 50 rounds. I could easily keep rapid-fire rounds not only in a silhouette at 7 yards, but in the middle of said target (don't even have the CT grips).

I would recommend a S&W 638 or 642 without any hesitation at all. Mine will reside in my pocket on those days when I must dress as you do (business casual). It will be able to do so with ease; just don't keep anything else in that pocket.

 

[middy]

I'd go for the snubby. They are just too easy to stick in your pocket and forget about.

As far as a .380, I think the Sig P232 is a "better PPK".

 

[tbeb]

I carried a 13-shot .380 ACP for nine years. Today I carry a S&W 642-2 which is an airweight, centennial style .38 special +P revolver with a short stainless steel barrel, stainless steel cylinder, and alloy frame. To me, it is the perfect pocket gun. It is simple to operate, and it is reliable with any bullet style one wants to use. I also feel the best .38 special ammo is a better manstopper than the best .380 ACP ammo.

 

[Thain]

I spend a good portion of my day... sometimes for weeks on end... sitting in Dockers (or similar slacks) in front of my PC in the office. I'm very much afraid of a CCW 'printing' while seated.

It seems to me the thinner cross section of the PPK (or similar) would be less of a problem than the .38 Snub.

Ah, the eternal debate about where and how to carry!

 

[cookekdjr]

I spend a good portion of my day... sometimes for weeks on end... sitting in Dockers (or similar slacks) in front of my PC in the office. I'm very much afraid of a CCW 'printing' while seated.

It seems to me the thinner cross section of the PPK (or similar) would be less of a problem than the .38 Snub.

Ah, the eternal debate about where and how to carry!

Thain, check out this review of the 342pd to see how a light J-frame prints:

http://www.gunblast.com/SW_342PD.htm

This is THE gun to carry in a pocket holster. No one will ever know its there.
-David

 

[Father Knows Best]

I spend a good portion of my day... sometimes for weeks on end... sitting in Dockers (or similar slacks) in front of my PC in the office. I'm very much afraid of a CCW 'printing' while seated.

It seems to me the thinner cross section of the PPK (or similar) would be less of a problem than the .38 Snub.

Whether a pocket gun prints through your clothing or not is a function of the clothing you wear and the holster you use, not the gun. You should never carry without a holster -- even a pocket gun! With a decent holster, a 642 will not print. In fact, its light weight will make it much less noticeable than a PPK, because it will be less likely to show the characteristic "sag" of a heavy object in a pocket.

Trust me on that last point. My brother is a LEO. He spots gangbangers carrying concealed from 100' away by the way the pockets on their pants or jackets sag.

 

[ArmedBear]

Whether a pocket gun prints through your clothing or not is a function of the clothing you wear and the holster you use, not the gun. You should never carry without a holster -- even a pocket gun! With a decent holster, a 642 will not print. In fact, its light weight will make it much less noticeable than a PPK, because it will be less likely to show the characteristic "sag" of a heavy object in a pocket.

Trust me on that last point. My brother is a LEO. He spots gangbangers carrying concealed from 100' away by the way the pockets on their pants or jackets sag.

Sure. But a middle-class guy in Dockers with something heavy in his pants doesn't arouse suspicion. I've often had heavy stuff in the pockets of khakis. It's not illegal to carry something weighing more than an ounce. Unless it's pot.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

My 2 cents....

I have carried both the Walther PPK and S&W 649. My preference is the PPK in an IWB holster. It is thin and totally concealable, even with nothing but a t-shirt on. Never prints.

 

[kentucky_smith]

For something in that size range, you may want to look at either a Makarov or a CZ-83 in 9x18. Or a small-carry Beretta.


But for the way you want to carry, you also may want to drop down a caliber and look for smaller carry gun, like a keltec P32

 

[ArmedBear]

I have carried both the Walther PPK and S&W 649. My preference is the PPK in an IWB holster. It is thin and totally concealable, even with nothing but a t-shirt on. Never prints.

When you get arrested for indecent exposure, do the cops pat you down and find it, or do you just tell them about it and hand it to them?

 

[ArmedBear]

BTW I think it IS relevant to discuss the different types of PPK's.

The trigger and the beavertail are different. These are major complaints with the original guns, Interarms versions, etc. I'd like to know how the S&W versions are. If the problems are solved, I'm probably getting one. If not, I'll get a CZ83 or something.

 

[196pc]

I've carried a PPK and a S&W 640 for off duty & backup. I now carry the 640 with 158 grn SWC HP's. Its easier for me and if I have to I can fire through a coat without jams. I still like the Walther though.

 

[tangodown]

Dont get either one, get a Kahr in .40!!! Currently I carry a para warthog, great gun but heavy... Here are three of my carry guns ...

<img src="http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/jjpatterson/100_1085.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

profile view of s&w and ppk...

<img src="http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/jjpatterson/100_1086.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


I have a Kahr in .40 on the way. After shooting my buddy's kahr I finally found a pistol that is light, reliable, comfortable to shoot, and easy to shoot well. But if you have to get one of these the ppk is so damn easy to shoot and hit what you are shooting at, it just points right.

 

[tangodown]

Dont get either one, get a Kahr in .40!!! Currently I carry a para warthog, great gun but heavy... Here are three of my carry guns ...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/jjpatterson/100_1085.jpg

profile view of s&w and ppk...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/jjpatterson/100_1086.jpg


I have a Kahr in .40 on the way. After shooting my buddy's kahr I finally found a pistol that is light, reliable, comfortable to shoot, and easy to shoot well. But if you have to get one of these the ppk is so damn easy to shoot and hit what you are shooting at, it just points right.

 

[lbmii]

My dad has a WW2 era Walther in 32acp and it has way too many reliability issues IMO.