Carry in Minnesota - Can't comply with the law!

[JonnyB]

We've got one of those paradox thingies in my town. Here's how it goes: The Minnesota statute for the carry of handguns reads as such:

Subd. 9. Carrying pistols about one's premises or for
purposes of repair, target practice. A permit to carry is
*not* (emphasis is mine-JB) required of a person:

(a) to keep or carry about the person's place of business,
dwelling house, premises or on land possessed by the person a
pistol;

(b) to carry a pistol from a place of purchase to the
person's dwelling house or place of business, or from the
person's dwelling house or place of business to or from a place
where repairing is done, to have the pistol repaired;

(c) to carry a pistol between the person's dwelling house
and place of business;

(d) to carry a pistol in the woods or fields or upon the
waters of this state for the purpose of hunting or of target
shooting in a safe area; or

(e) to transport a pistol in a motor vehicle, snowmobile or
boat if the pistol is unloaded, contained in a closed and
fastened case, gunbox, or securely tied package.

You may have noticed that certain things are unlawful - taking a handgun to a friend's home to show it off; taking it to the dealer or gun show for appraisal or trade-in; taking it to the indoor range in town. I can drive downtown, to the range, but as soon as I get out of my car with a handgun (rifles are different), even an unloaded, encased one, I'm in violoation of state law. Really. I contacted the police chief about it; he agreed. He said though, that I "wouldn't get in trouble bringing an unloaded pistol to the range". The locals will ignore what the state consides a gross misdemeanor.

I asked why I can't get a permit, in order to be in full compliance. Broken record time - "you won't get in trouble bringing..." He'd rather have me violate the law than have a permit. Imagine that; encouraging crime! He can't see the irony of it, either. After exchanging emails and letters, I have decided that he's a 'dead horse', and I'll stop flogging him. Aaarrrrrrggggghhh!

JB

 

[ball3006]

Politicians in MN have been....

outside in January with out a hat on too long.....chris3

 

[cobb]

Hopefully in February this will all start to change in Minnesota.

 

[mpthole]

JohnnyB: I fail to see how the statute prohibits you from bringing an unloaded and cased pistol to a friends house or to a range for target practice. I think you're reading too much into the statute.

Please don't get me wrong... I lived in MN for a long time and have no love of these types of gun control laws. The chiefs of police are notoriously anti-gun and the last place to go for an interpretation of the "law".

 

[Oleg Volk]

Just an opinion: the two police chiefs I conversed with in Minnesota ought to stand trial for denial of civil rights. The two specific individuals (not sure if they are typical but friends report that they are) are despicable, foul critters not fit to steal oxygen from real humans.
I sincerely hope that their authority over issuance of carry permits disappears this year.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I sincerely hope Minnesota will do the right thing and adopt a shall issue law. On the whole, Minnesotans are wonderful people, but the state government is another matter altogether.

 

[JonnyB]

MP:

I'm not reading "too much" into the law. It's there, in black and white. It spells out *exactly* what you can do without a permit. Call the state Attorney General. I spoke to the Chief of Police; he agreed with my understanding of the law. That's why I included the exact text of the law; I did a cut & paste from the state's website.

Now, in reality, no LEO is going to bother you if you tote your iron over to a friend's place. It is, however, a violation of Minneaota law.

I guess we can look upon the law as the founders intended; anything not specifically prohibited is permitted...

JB

 

[mpthole]

anything not specifically prohibited is permitted...

That is my point.

 

[JonnyB]

MP:

Note that I said that's the way it *should* be. Unfortunately, it ain't so.

JB

 

[PATH]

Sure. Violate the law and it is okay until some political entitiy wants to give you a hard time. Unbelieveable! I sure hope you folks in Minesota press the issue.

 

[2nd Amendment]

We all violate laws daily and get away with it. Until someone in "authority" wants a piece of you. That's the purpose of massive, conflicting and unintelligible legislation. Everyone is a criminal.

 

[anchored]

That's a very poorly written law, but after reading the caselaw that interprets it, the courts know this and are inclined to interpret it according to public policy (usually in favor of greater restriction.) I think you could make an argument that, since carrying a pistol in the woods, fields or waters for safe target pratice is OK, so is carry to an indoor range. I would request an attorney general's opinion on the matter, then carry a copy of it in your gun case. Or, seek an advisory opinion from the supreme court.

 

[GregoryTech]

Same In Florida

There is a similar problem in Florida. If you live in a condo/apartment complex/town house style home, then while you can legally have a gun in your car (securely encased) without a CWL, and you can legally have a gun in your home without a CWL, and you can legally have a gun at work without a CWL, you can NOT have a gun on "common property" (shared stairways, parking lots, etc) so you have no way to get your legal gun from your home to your car to your place of business!

Also interesting, is you CAN carry the gun on the common property if you doing certain "excepted" things like going to or coming from camping or fishing.

This is a real loophole. A legislative oversight that needs to be corrected, but probably won't be.

 

[powerstrk]

I think the law is somewhat vague in some localities, but I think the jist is if you carry it conceled you need a permit. If you just carry it in a case as if you were going to the range. you don't need a permit. period. Calif.,or NJ that anybodys guess

 

[dustind]

i live in Minnesota too, i am pretty sure you can do anything as long as its unloaded and cased, i used to through stuff in a hard gun case and take my bicycle into the woods, got some funny looks but nobody "said" anything

i have a feeling we will be shall issue any month now

I like that we can carry concealed to work with no permit, have not tried that yet

 

[mpthole]

I like that we can carry concealed to work with no permit, have not tried that yet

dustind: You may want to look into that one a bit further. I think there is some case law on that one that concluded that it must be a business owned by the person carrying and not just anyone going to a "job".

Again, not saying I agree with it. But check the case law. PlusP used to have links on their site.

 

[cobb]

It looks like the personal protection act / shall issue bill for Minnesota was introduced to the Senate on 1/29/03, and was sent to commitee on 1/30/03. It passed the House last year, and if the head count is right it should pass the Senate by 9 votes. But nobody really knows until it is signed by Govener Paulenty because the Million Mom March bunch have been showing their faces around here. They are trying to get guns banned in the city of Duluth, Minnesota even though I believe it is against state law for a city to do so. :banghead:

It appears that there are a few Minnesota gun owners on this board, how about writing a letter to your House and Senate Representative, not an e-mail, set down and write it. You can go here to find out who represents you, their address and telephone number. Just 10-15 minutes of work from each one of you could help assure its passage.

 

[dustind]

mpthole: thanks for the warning, but i may not get the job i wanted so i am guessing i wont be able to anyway

cobb: i joined MN conealed carry reform NOW! i have never written to a represenitive in my life, i am only 20, but i guess i should start, i will find a templete and hand write something to everyone who represents me, and then follow up.