Carry Piece/Small .45 Recoil

[dk-corriveau]

I submitted my concealed handgun permit paperwork today, so it is time to think about a carry piece. I am looking for some guidance and information, but first some background:

- Nearly all of my shooting experience has been with full size semi-autos. I regularly shoot a full sized .45 while at the range. I’ve also spent a lot of time shooting a Sig 226 and a Walther P-38.
- I am about 6’ tall and weigh about 180, so I am pretty average size.
- I live in Virginia and I would like to have a carry gun that I can conceal during our hellish summers.
- My number one concern in selecting a carry gun is my ability to shoot it well, so skip the “this caliber vs. that caliber arguments”, although it is a factor I am considering.

I have shot both a Sig 232 and an S&W J-frame .38 Special, both of which I could carry year round. I loved the Sig, felt great, shot great, etc. I liked the J-frame, but it will take some getting used to shooting a revolver. For those of you who have some opinions on these two options I would love to hear them, just not on the stopping power issue.

I would also like to hear from those of you who carry/own compact 1911s. Since I already shoot a 1911, moving to a smaller version would be nice with regard to functionality and grip angle. But I am a little concerned about recoil. I am very comfortable with my full sized .45, but the little ones seem like they could be a handful.

Obviously, what I really need to do is get out there and shoot some more platforms, but that is easier said than done. Thanks for the help!

 

[tbeb]

Sig 232 and S&W "J" frame are both good choices. I prefer the .38 special. One reason is that it can use a heavier bullet. Small revolver is easy to slip into and out of a pocket. Get an airweight. I like an exposed hammer because I like the option of single action. The older S&W model 37 is a prime example. Use a pocket holster and the hammer spur will not snag on clothing when you draw. I carried a 12-shot .380 for about 9 years. It malfunctioned due to a weak magazine spring. I lost confidence in it and went back to a snub .38. Right now I'm kicking around the idea of a Kel Tec P-ll because it holds 11 rounds of 9mm, it's fairly compact, and it is double action only. It was also designed by the same man who designed my .380. All in all I prefer to carry in a pants pocket. Good choices for that in my opinion are the above 2 and the Kahr PM-9. I wouldn't spend what they're getting for a Rorhbaugh (very small 9mm pistol).

 

[Old Dog]

You should have no problem with a Commander-size or compact 1911. Even with my lightweight SA Micro-Compact, recoil (though noticeably stiffer than with a 5" 1911) is easily manageable -- once you've practiced enough ...

With your size, a Commander-size (4" -4.25" barrel) should conceal easily, especially with a good holster IWB holster like a Sparks VM-2, even OWB with something like a Kramer Belt Scabbard (or, if you're budget minded, a Galco Concealable).

I particularly like the Colt Combat Commander (all steel, so no problem with recoil), but for lighter carry pieces, I love the Colt LW Commander and the Kimber Pro Tactical (another lightweight 4-incher) ... Either are my favorite daily carry pieces, though my Micro-Compact gets carried a lot, too -- especially during hot summer days under light clothing -- it's tiny.

My absolute favorite as far as a non-1911 compact CCW pistol is the SIG 228. My wife has a nifty Taurus PT-145 (10+1 in .45 ACP) that definitely earns an honorable mention.

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

SW 642 -- Join the Club

 

[Rabbi]

Para Ord CCO is a dandy choice in a snubbed 1911 style and that magical LDA trigger has to be tried to be believed.

My newish carry piece is a Glock model 36 in .45 acp.

Both have only slightly more recoil than all steel 1911s and are easily gotten accustomed to. Both are rather corrosion resistant, too .......... important in a hot climate.

Good luck in your quest.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I carry a Kimber Pro Carry in a Galco Royal Guardian IWB holster and have no problem keeping it concealed. You should be fine with your body size and concealing a Commander size 1911.

One thing to remember, your wardrobe will change a bit when you CCW. Looser shirts and one size up on waist size for pants if you IWB carry. Also, a barrier shirt like a wife beater will help keep the pistol or hoster off of your skin if you IWB.

 

[AK103K]

I'll also suggest the Commander. Its a very easy gun to wear, even in warm weather. I'd be more worried about reliability with anything smaller than with recoil. I also carry a P230 or 642 as a back up, and both are great guns and each with their own places. So go get one of each. I agree with the loose shirt and a tee shirt, but I like my normal size pants. Its only slightly more snug and the snug fit helps to hold the gun in place when you use a IWB holster. I'm partial to Blade Tech for them myself.

 

[enfield]

I carry a S&W 638 in a pocket holster while wearing shorts and t-shirts. It works fine for me.

 

[carebear]

6'2" and 190 and I usually carry my LW Commander.

Full(ish) size shouldn't be too big a deal for you. I have gone to wearing more untucked nice button-downs (short and long sleeve) and polo's when casually dressed. Untucked, not too fitting, T-shirt's aren't too big of a deal either.

Suit coats, no problem.

I have a Taurus 85 Titanium and Mustang Pocketlite that I pocket carry when I absolutely can't carry the other.

 

[Preacherman]

I carry an airweight J-frame in a Desantis Nemesis pocket holster most of the time (due to a back injury, it's tricky to wear a holster on my waist all day at the moment). However, for more firepower and a harder-hitting caliber, the Glock 26/27/33 is about the same size overall as a J-frame, albeit a bit blockier, and also conceals well in a Nemesis pocket holster. My choice is the 27 in .40 S&W, loaded with Remington Golden Saber Bonded 165gr. JHP's. Ten rounds on tap, easily concealed in a pocket, and very accurate - what's not to like?

 

[CARRY'IN]

I have carried an assortment of guns over the years and lug a Makarov around right now- and will probably continue to do so for various reasons. But of all the guns I carried, big and small, a snubnose alloy frame revolver was my favorite. Snubbies carry well. You get something big and think shoulder holsters are cool, trust me, that will wear off pretty quick. Any holster is a hassle. I have no idea how people voluntarily carry large autos and revolvers concealed; it mystifies me because when I had to do it, it was miserable.

 

[MICHAEL T]

I say you should do all right with a commander. I own a Para P-10 3" 10+1 45 compact and the Llama version of it. I don't find recoil any problem Just make sure you have ear protection. They are loud. Colt Defender seens to be most trouble free out of box, all rest need a little tinkering or so it seems.

 

[Iggy]

6'2' 250#

I carry a CCO in 10mm A little practice and you can handle the recoil quite well.

When that is a bit big I go to a J- frame in 38

Both are carried in Sparks VMII very comfortably all year round.

Good luck in your search..

 

[halvey]

- I am about 6’ tall and weigh about 180, so I am pretty average size.

It's really more about the size of your hands and length of your fingers than anything.

Any holster is a hassle. I have no idea how people voluntarily carry large autos and revolvers concealed; it mystifies me because when I had to do it, it was miserable.

I'm glad someone brought this up. Call me a wimp but lugging around a "light" gun - 23 oz 1911 after I had it worked on got a bit old after awhile. I started not to carry because it became kind of uncomfortable by the end of the day. For me, it is more important to carry something than nothing. The lightweight Smiths, PM9 or Kel Tec's seem to be the deal. At least for me.

 

[AK103K]

Any holster is a hassle. I have no idea how people voluntarily carry large autos and revolvers concealed; it mystifies me because when I had to do it, it was miserable.

A good holster and belt, once you get used to them are usually pretty comfortable. The key is to get the proper equipment. A $10 holster and a $5 Sears belt usually aint it.(but you never know, it just might work OK for someone) I've voluntarily have carried either a Government Model or Combat Commander, IWB, and a double reload on my belt, daily, for about the last 30 years. It took a little while to get used to the extra weight and bulk, and yes, at first it was somewhat uncomfortable, but that didnt last long at all. Once I settled on a good holster and a proper gun belt, its actually been very comfortable. Its uncomfortable when its not there. I know everyone is different and we all have our pet choices, but if your going to go to the trouble of wearing or carrying a pistol, dont you think it should be the biggest and baddest thing you can carry and conceal? If not, why bother? The .380's, .38's, and in some cases the .22's, .25's and .32's do make nice little back up or extra guns to your real gun and after all sorts of hand wringing and teeth gnashing, you cant figure out a way to carry your real gun in your Speedo, you might could just have to pop that pip squeak in the key pocket. Not that I'm liking it mind you, the Speedo or the pip squeak!(and yes, I can pull the Speedo off, and without a hint of "Dunlop" either )
Wearing a pistol requires some work and effort from you. If you dont do it all the time, its usually even more work. If its a hardship on you and such a struggle, then your either doing something wrong, or maybe you should find something else.

 

[james481]

I've yet to get my CCW, so take this with a grain of salt, but I'm about your size (6'2" ~185lbs), and I think my solution is going with different weapons for different climates. During the heat of summer (and I am in Albuquerque, so I mean heat!), I plan on carrying a Kahr MK40 Elite either IWB or pocket holstered. Winter months means more clothing, so I will carry my G30 IWB. I think both the G30 and the MK40 are small enough to conceal any time of the year, so if I am going to the ghetto I plan on packing both. G30 primary IWB with the MK40 BUG in a pocket holster.

BTW, I know that there are many on this board who feel that Glocks are pretty crappy, but I love my G30. It actually kicks LESS than a full size 1911 (in my experience, YMMV), because the polymer eats up a lot of recoil, combined with the lower bore axis. It works everytime you pull the bang switch without fail, and is better than "combat accuracy" (though not as accurate as a tuned 1911, but you don't need a defensive arm to be...). Plus, it will only run about $600, instead of $800+ for the baby 1911s...

 

[roo_ster]

All you need to conceal a GM-sized 1911 is:

• 1. Good IWB holster
  2. Good belt
  3. Untucked polo shirt

As far as snubbie vs .380, I go snubbie.

WRT small 1911s, my wife shoots a Springfield LtWt Ultracompact 1911 in 9mm. She's 5' & sub 100lbs.

 

[Dave R]

But I am a little concerned about recoil. I am very comfortable with my full sized .45, but the little ones seem like they could be a handful.

If you have shot many pistols, they are not that bad. I carry a PT-145, which is not a 1911, but is a light, compact (sub-compact?) .45. The recoil is not bad. Noticeably more than a 9mm, but more of a "push" than a "snap," etc. You can handle it.

 

[Hypnogator]

My favorite carry piece is my .45 Detonics - Small and accurate. Not light. Noticable recoil less than a full-sized 1911, probably because of the stacked recoil springs.

I now generally carry a Taurus PT-145 Millennium Pro - not quite so small or accurate, but 11 rds of .45 ACP instead of 7. Recoil is a little snappier than the Detonics, but is more of a push, and more muzzle climb because the barrel is higher above the grip.

If you can handle a full-sized 1911 in .45, you should be able to handle either of these weapons with no problem.

 

[vito]

You should consider a Kimber Ultra Carry II. Its small, very accurate and in stainless steel with mepro night sights I think it is the perfect carry weapon. If the weather is such that I am dressed very lightly, I use a small camera bag carried across my chest. Its secure and NOBODY seems to suspect that a camera bag contains a gun (unlike the fanny pack that everyone knows contains a gun).

 

[sumpnz]

I've got Sig P245 and a Com3 holster on order from www.hbeleatherworks.com for IWB carry. In a few months send me a PM and I'll let you know how the gun/holster combo works for me (Eric has rather a backlog at the moment). The Com3 was inspired by the Sparks VMII and as I recall someone on here posted a comparison of the two holsters. Basically it was a 6 of one, half a dozen of the other kind of thing.

Physically the P245 is about the same overall size as the compact (3" barreled) 1911 style pistols, but has a 3.9" barrel, hence it'll give a bit more velocity. It's a single stack design that nominally carries 6+1, but it can take the P220 mags which gives 8+1 capacity. Some guys will carry with the 6 rounder in the gun, and an 8 rounder for the reload.

As to recoil, with WWB 230gr harball (avg 780fps from my gun) it's pretty tolerable. Certainly enough to notice, but aimed rapid fire is still quite possible with a bit of practice. I'd imagine that dropping down to 180-200gr bullets would help that quite a bit too. I'm planning to pick up a few boxes of different ammo to try out at the range this weekend and hopefully settle on one to use for carry.

 

[geekWithA.45]

My normal carry gun's a sig P245. Recoil's not even slightly a problem.

 

[sumpnz]

Hey Geek - What ammo do you use for carry in your P245? I am intending to head to the range this weekend to try out a few different types, but I figure you've got plenty of experience that can help me at least narrow the list a bit.

 

[bubbygator]

I've had the Kimber Ultra Carry 2, & it's no recoil "problem", just a bit uppity & very accurate - if you can get one to be reliable, they should be OK. I've shot full size Colt & LightWeight Commander - there's not much difference if you're used to the full-size. I've currently got a Colt Compact, & it's very nice... more like the Commander than the Kimber IMO. I really liked the Commander the best... but I'm getting used to this Compact.

If you shoot 1911 full size regularly, you shouldn't have any problem with any of the smaller sizes. Good Luck

 

[147 Grain]

Nice thread!

What ammo is best for self defense out of compact 45 autos with short barrels, such as the 3.2" in the Taurus Millenium Pro PT-145?