Carrying a broken CCW and didn't know!!

[Island Beretta]

On the last Thursday in 2004 I took out my Beretta to do a function test over a clearing pit. After several clicks- which included racking the slide, inspecting the bullet and not seeing any primer mark, I looked at the breech face and saw that the firing pin looked receded in the channel. I had fired the weapon the previous Monday as a function check as well.

Did a function check which included lifting the safety and pushing the firing pin through from the back of the slide. I then noticed that the tip of the firing pin did not protude from the breechface. Worried, I dismantled the slide..the firing pin was broken in 3 places: the tip and the 2 ends of the cutout that the firing pin fits in. It appears based on the oxidation on the metal that the firing pin was broken for sometime, and even worked then, but the last to give out was the tip and that sealed the issue.

I have posted this here because I am more concern of the strategies and tactics issues that emanates from this.

In my neck of the woods 2 gun carry is difficulty (tropical climate) and you can be arrested for carrying a knife or any blunt weapon e.g. baton.


So I pass on these learnings:

1. Keep your CCW in pristine condition. This means change parts, not only keeping clean. This gun is 3 years old with no parts change, lots of dry-firing and hard shooting, it has also gotten a couple of solid drops. Ernie Langdon recommends a top-end tune every 6 to 12 months depending on use.

2. Function check your weapon everytime you pick it up to carry- even if it is just a visual inspection. I did mine 4 days apart but that was too far.

3. Be careful of modifications. On the spot reliability is good but what about later? My Beretta had an overtravel stop installed on the trigger that lifted the safety out of the way when shooting to allow the firing pin to go through but not enough to fully clear the channel. This 'little' drag kept eating away at the forward and rear junctions in the firing pin notch. The safety block had to be changed as well due to the pitting on it caused by the firing pin drag.

4. Always have a Plan B. During the 4 days between the function check I was all around including going to the bank to withdraw a large sum of money (hey, it was Christmas!!) and going to 2 late night events (hey, it was Christmas . 24 people were killed, during this week including CCW holders, most just going about their normal business.

5. Gunmen usually kill you if they find you with a gun, the only thing I could say is that they would not have been able to use my gun to kill me, unless of course, they decided to use it as a club.

I hope you all have some learning from this, as I have had, because it could have been a lot worse for me.

A good friend of mine and a Beretta enthusiast as well repaired the firearm on New Year's eve night. Thanks, Al!!

 

[InfernoMDM]

I had a guy over in Iraq (AF office name witheld to protect the stupid) who was complaining about his safety on his berreta(92?). He said he couldnt get the range but was worried about it. I told him to clear it and give it to me. He cleared it and I function checked it. Heard a odd sound inside while checking it. Took it down and yep part of the trigger system was broken. Did I mention the hammer DIDNT WORK! Although that didnt tell him somethings wrong. He also had a crack in the chamber area, a small one. Aparently other issues had come up, due to lack of maintance even though none of them were fired much at all.

 

[The Rabbi]

One word: REVOLVER!

 

[Trebor]

One word: REVOLVER!

Revolvers can go bad too. I had one student in the first CCW I ever taught who'se Colt Peacekeeper (parkerized Trooper) froze up after a few cylinders. The cylinder wouldn't turn and we had to bang on it to get it open. I suspect improper cleaning.

I had a student at my most recent class, in December, who'se S&W Model 19 would only reliably fire five out of six chambers. We suspect a timing issue because he was getting firing pin strikes on the cartridge rim instead of on the primer.

Heck, my own S&W Model 28 is currently redlined "out of service" for intermittent failures to fire. I'm going to pack it up and send it to S&W for an overhaul. It worked just fine until it stopped working.

Granted, I tend to believe that a revolver is generally more reliable then a semi-auto, but you do have to maintain and inspect them as well. Nothing mechanical is perfect.

 

[The Rabbi]

No question they can but
1) It happens a lot less often.
2) It is a lot easier to check function.

 

[scbair]

I also thought a revolver would "always" function (barring abuse, of course). Last Friday, I took my pet 5-shooter out for its weekly cleaning (I carry a stainless revolver in a pocket holster, and work in an office setting; I check the cylinder to ensure it's loaded each morning, holster & pocket it, and remove it when I turn in at night. I clean it at the end of the week, wiping down, inspecting bore, chambers and action). Surprise! It locked up tight & refused to cycle at all! The bolt is malfunctioning and fails to drop, preventing the cylinder from rotating. Wonder how many days I'd been "unarmed with a deadly weapon" (in the words of Jeff Cooper).

Lesson learned (or re-learned; I knew, but jus kinda forgot): NO MACHINE IS 100% RELIABLE!

Corrective actions:
1) Carry a BUG;
2) Inspect both primary and BUG daily;
3) Carry stout knife;
4) Wear running shoes.

 

[Dave Williams]

Question:

I have little experience with Berettas, but have heard that they are prone to parts breakage from dry firing, particularly the firing pin.

Is that true?

Thanks,

Dave Williams

 

[Island Beretta]

Dave: I know the weakness is the trigger spring but that was on the older models. I wouldn't say that generally about the Beretta. Mine has been through hell and to be honest the parts change was maybe overdue.

My biggest issue was not knowing about the weapon being disabled whilst carrying the weapon in potential hot spots. This has to affect your confidence somewhat.

 

[coylh]

The firing pin of my CZ-75 broke during normal shooting. The amazing thing was that the gun still functioned partially. I could fire one round and it would malfunction. Fire one round, malfunction. The firing pin was protruding a cm or two from the face hampering ejection.

 

[OpenRoad]

Dave: I know the weakness is the trigger spring but that was on the older models. I wouldn't say that generally about the Beretta.

It's not just the older models. And the Taurus's do it as well.

 

[Whole Hog]

I had an experience very similar to scbair with my S&W 337. I went to the range one Friday afternoon, shot my carry ammo and about 50 rounds of range ammo, reloaded the gun with fresh carry ammo, and went home. The next morning after I unloaded it in preparation for cleaning, I discovered that the gun was locked up solidly. Neither the hammer nor the trigger would budge. S&W turned it around quickly and said they replaced a broken trigger block. I still like that revolver, but will never forget the feeling when I realized it didn't work. No amount of inspection could ever catch a problem like that though.

Scott

 

[The Rabbi]

Revolver especially I think tend to give some kind of notice they are going bad. But if I had one that worked fine for many many rounds and then suddenly quit when I needed it most I would think my time is up anyway. Some things just cant be prepared for.

 

[Sam]

As scbair stated earlier, no machine is 100% reliable.

Inspect daily, fire for function regularly(weekly), get to know a good 'smith and have him detail inspect periodically (once a year).

Change your ammo regular too. Best way to practice with something like your carry ammo is to shoot up carry ammo and replace it. If it is too expensive load your own.

Sam

 

[maxcarp709]

Words to live by....

I started carrying my G26 after getting my CCW in OCT.During qualifications the little Glock ran perfect as well as the G30 I use as a 2nd gun for CCW.At the first chance I got in Dec I went to the range to get some practice.After firing 20-30 rounds trying new magazines everything was going well with the G26 then.....a misfire,then after a couple more rounds a failure to extract,then several more misfires.Hmmmm...this is not supposed to happen with a Glock I sez to myself.I did a qwik teardown of the slide to inspect the firing pin,spring and saftey plunger.All looked well since thet were recently cleaned after quals.I did notice the firing pin spring was kind of.....discolored,mottled in spots.Sac Le Bleu!I sez.I put it back together and try a few more rounds.Still getting misfires.Not as many but way too many for a carry gun.This is with factory new ammo.Meanwhile the G30 is perking along flawlessly.I went home and switched out the firing pin and spring on the G26 with the parts from my trusty G19.A few days later I got a chance to go to the indoor range to try the little Glock with some Armscor ammo I bought at the range.No Problems.Great! I even shot a few rounds of CorBon +P ammo and every thing was great.I ordered a HD firing pin spring from Glockmeister and put that in.It looked bright and shiny compared to the mottled OEM spring.I went back to the range last sun and ran 100+ rounds thru the little gem.The next mag I got 1 misfire.Dang!After inspecting the round I noticed the there was a primer strike.Loading it back in the gun it fired just like all the rest.Maybe this one I could blame on the ammo I sez.I resolved to replace all the rest of the springs on the G26 and take it out monthly to practice.The G30 will remain close at hand since I keep it stuffed between the seats in my car to ward off carjackers.Any machine made by the hands of man can fail at one time or the other.Thats why we practice Malf Drills.

 

[donkee]

another word, MAKAROV!

 

[B36]

And now you know

The reason i carry at least two guns, and usually three.

Dress around the guns.....not hard IF you want to.

 

[Trebor]

another word, MAKAROV!

Nope. Maks go bad too. My EG Mak was 100% reliable for a couple years until it started misfiring on the single action shots. Turns out the safety detent spring was worn, which allowed the safety to engage just enough to keep the hammer from hitting the firing pin. From what the guys on the Mak forum said, this is a common failure mode for the Makarov. The fix was to remove the safety and bend the spring a little to tighten it back up. It worked and the gun runs fine now, but the safety is now harder to engage and disengage.

In short, no gun is free from the possibility of mechanical malfunction. You want 100% guaranteed reliability? Go with a big rock.

 

[1911SFOREVER]

Berettas are designed to be carried a lot and shot very little.

Before the Beretta defenders jump on me, my experience comes from six months in Somalia and managing an indoor range in California. Recently I've been training Marines at Quantico. Berettas just don't hold up to even moderate use.

 

[Black Snowman]

Carry a fixed blade knife. Very hard for it to not work correctly

Don't forget to carry a firearm for backup in case the threat is more than 21 feet away

Everything can fail, but having a gun at all is light years ahead of most folks.

 

[orangeninja]

Dude....

Get a Glock.

No wait...

Get a Sig.

No wait again...

Get an H&K.

No wait again, again...

Get a Strategic Thermo Nuclear Missle.



Dude....

Get a Glock.

No wait...

Get a Sig.

No wait again...

Get an H&K.

No wait again, again...

Get a Strategic Thermo Nuclear Missle.



*Repeat*

 

[secamp32]

Revolvers break too

I had my backup gun (a Colt Cobra) lock up on me during qualifications a few years ago. I carried it on duty all year and it locked up after firing 2 rounds. Boy I'm glad TSDidn'tHTF and needed that. We take it for granted that it will work when we need it to.

 

[c22m22c]

from what i understand. in ideal conditions berettas are mediocre. they aren't intended for extreme environments (ie deserts, jungles, etc).

anything mechanical WILL fail. and i think the only solution, if you're looking for one, would be to do what i think you're gonna do from now on...INSPECT thoroughly and often.

 

[BigG]

...in ideal conditions berettas are mediocre. they aren't intended for extreme environments (ie deserts, jungles, etc).

If this is true, the Army pulled a magnificent boner when it adopted the M9. In fact, it could be said to be criminal that they jettisoned the M1911A1 for such a worthless piece of bling.

 

[1911SFOREVER]

In the early 80's the services decided they needed to replace Old Slabslides. They issued criteria, and there was a competition between various competing models. Here's the funny part....the AIR FORCE ran the testing! Missiles, fighter planes, rockets, I can understand those guys doing that. But small arms?

Anyway, the Beretta essentially tied with the Sig 226 and won on price point. (Plus the fact that we wanted to sell F16s to the Italians.) The result is that the biggest POS since the Chauchaut machinegun has been foisted on the American fighting man.

 

[c22m22c]

wholeheartedly agree with the above post.

to think that the air force did the testing on the program makes me realize...the gun (as a military sidearm) sucks in extreme conditions...because no airman in his/her right (left, or even out of) mind is giving up the necessary comfort to test it in those environments. just kidding airmen.