Cartridge Comparison

[WisBorn]

As gun people we love to compare cartridges. I think it is a little bit human nature. It may also be standing up for your favorite round. In comparing cartridges it makes me a little bit disgusted when people cherry pick loads.

The 30-06 standard hunting loads throw a bullet 100-150 feet faster than the same bullet from a 308 win. Will the deer or elk know the difference??? I don't think so.

100-150 fps from a pistol is a big difference. Or is it??

My favorite little comparison is the 45Colt and 45acp
45Colt - 250 grain, 900fps, 450#s
45acp - 230 grain, 960fps, 471#s
Which is a better choice

What are your favorite comparisons and cartridge choices?

 

[scaatylobo]

As gun people we love to compare cartridges. I think it is a little bit human nature. It may also be standing up for your favorite round. In comparing cartridges it makes me a little bit disgusted when people cherry pick loads.

The 30-06 standard hunting loads throw a bullet 100-150 feet faster than the same bullet from a 308 win. Will the deer or elk know the difference??? I don't think so.

100-150 fps from a pistol is a big difference. Or is it??

My favorite little comparison is the 45Colt and 45acp
45Colt - 250 grain, 900fps, 450#s
45acp - 230 grain, 960fps, 471#s
Which is a better choice

What are your favorite comparisons and cartridge choices?

I love your post !!

But beg to differ as the spec's I saw recently put the .45LC at 50 fps faster than the .45ACP.

I do not have a way to check it out,but I do have a Ruger with both cylinders and would love to see a side by side comparisson.

I would think that there might be a slight difference between the way both are chambered as to thousands of an inch bore wise .

 

[Jim Watson]

My favorite little comparison is the 45Colt and 45acp
45Colt - 250 grain, 900fps, 450#s
45acp - 230 grain, 960fps, 471#s

If you are going to cite .45 ACP +P, oughtn't you show .45 LC Ruger instead of the black powder equivalent?

 

[WisBorn]

I just grabbed two loads from Wikipedia. I should have looked up the standard loads. Which are fairly close also....

 

[LimaCharlie]

Use the best tool for the job.

 

[CDW4ME]

Here is a comparison , HST in two different calibers, both perform well:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
38 Special Federal 130 HST Micro - 13'' / .73
9mm Federal 150 HST Micro - 17.3'' / .71

But... the comparison is not complete, yet.
In "pocket size" or "similar size" handguns, the 5 round 38 special (snub) is capacity deficient to a Sig 365 (for example).
11 rounds 9mm > 5 rounds 38 special

 

[.45Coltguy]

Hmm. My only comparison that I will put out here is this:
.45 Colt, 250gr rnfp coated, 8.0gr Unique, 5.5" barrel @ 875 fps mv over the screens[on avg.]
.45 acp, 230gr rn coated, 5.8gr Unique, 5.0" barrel @ 825 fps mv over the screens[on avg.]
Pretty close for these two old timers. Both dandies.

 

[WisBorn]

Here is a comparison , HST in two different calibers, both perform well:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
38 Special Federal 130 HST Micro - 13'' / .73
9mm Federal 150 HST Micro - 17.3'' / .71

But... the comparison is not complete, yet.
In "pocket size" or "similar size" handguns, the 5 round 38 special (snub) is capacity deficient to a Sig 365 (for example).
11 rounds 9mm > 5 rounds 38 special

Thanks for the link. It reminded me to check out the results for Hornady Critical Defense 110FXT. I bought some 38 & 38+p of the load. @beeenbag mentioned them in one of his videos.
Yes I like my pocket 9mm Kimber R7, but there are times I still carry my j frame.

 

[cjwils]

Keep in mind that energy is proportional to the square of velocity. The OP mentioned cartridges with a velocity difference of 150 fps, but if you consider the square of velocity, that is a significant difference.

 

[PapaG]

Two of my favorite cartridges. My loads are different from factory as I carry either an ACP or Colt while hunting. Both are loaded with the RCBS 45-260 KT. In the Colt/Ruger, I'm clocking about 1200 fps. ACP, much less.
Penetration tests show either will do and has done full penetration on our average Illinois doe.
I like wide, flat nose bullets for penetration.
Guns, 4 5 8" Blackhawk and Kimber Pro Carry.
My carry guns are smaller and use the 38/9mm sizes. Compromising power for convenience.
Some day that rare feral hog is going to come waddling down my creek botom.

 

[.38 Special]

I spent a lot of time worrying about .45 Colt "Ruger only" loads vs. the .44 Magnum. I was a big fan of the Colt and argued in its favor every chance I got, but ultimately, the critters I shot with either never seemed to know the difference.

 

[jmr40]

Keep in mind that energy is proportional to the square of velocity. The OP mentioned cartridges with a velocity difference of 150 fps, but if you consider the square of velocity, that is a significant difference.

Assuming we are talking about big game hunting most all MODERN cartridges are more alike than different. Every cartridge 26 caliber and up is capable of killing every game animal in North America and all but about 4 on the planet if the bullet chosen for the task is up to it. With the 26 caliber cartridges you can get bullets with enough weight and sectional density to give the necessary penetration for game larger than deer. The only real differences are in how far you can make the shot and how much recoil you want to deal with.

If you're talking about old school cartridges from the black powder era the rules are a bit different and I'm not going there.

I think the bullet you use is more important than the cartridge it is fired from. Some are designed to expand rapidly even at moderate impact speeds. Some stay together and penetrate deep with little expansion unless impact speeds are quite high. Either of which can be good, or bad, depending on what you're hunting and the range you're shooting.

I think a better way to predict a cartridges performance is to 1st select a bullet with enough weight to penetrate the game hunted. Then look at the bullets and the impact speeds they are designed to work in. Most common bullets will expand at speeds as low as about 1700-1800 fps and will still stay together as fast as about 2800 fps. Other bullets will stay together and penetrate with impact speeds over 3000 fps, but most of those need 2000 fps or more to expand at all. Don't ask the bullet to do something it wasn't designed to do and it will kill game.

How much does that 150 fps matter? Comparing 165 gr loads my 308 drops below 1800 fps at about 550 yards. My 30-06 somewhere around 650 yards. The 308 has about 6" more drop. A little over 4' vs a bit over 4.5' A 165 gr bullet should provide adequate penetration, and both should still expand at any range out to about 550 yards and no game animal will ever know the difference.

A 300 magnum will get you past 700 yards before the bullet is too slow to expand. But it could also be too fast and over expand at ranges inside of 100-150 yards.

 

[beeenbag]

Thanks for the link. It reminded me to check out the results for Hornady Critical Defense 110FXT. I bought some 38 & 38+p of the load. @beeenbag mentioned them in one of his videos.
Yes I like my pocket 9mm Kimber R7, but there are times I still carry my j frame.

So far the 110g ftx is the only thing I’ve found to expand AND get penetration reliably from a j frame. I do have some hand loads with the 130g micro hst bullet I keep talking about but will finally be recording it performing this week.

 

[Bazoo]

I enjoy a good cartridge comparison. I compare 357 Magnum, 44 Special in standard and +P versions, 45 automatic, 45 Colt, and 44 Magnum. Always interesting to hear actual field reports from guns/calibers and game I've not had the chance at yet.

 

[lightman]

I can think of a few that I hear argued about besides the ones you posted.
243 Winchester vs 6mm Remington
270 Winchester vs 280 Remington
6.5 mm CM vs 6.5 mm Sweed vs 6.5-284

Probably a few that I'm forgetting!

 

[.308 Norma]

270 Winchester vs 280 Remington

And 280 Remington vs 7mm Remington Magnum.

 

[WisBorn]

And 280 Remington vs 7mm Remington Magnum.

Yes and the 280AI vs 7rm.

 

[Chuck R.]

How about .357 S&W Magnum VS. .357SIG.

With 125s about a wash, with the heavier bullets the.357Mag starts to walk away, but that was never the intent for the .357S. IMHO it does what it set out to do pretty well.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Well, I think my 30-30 makes my deer taste better than my 35 Remington. Then again, my 35Rem make my pig taste better than the 30-30. Head scratcher for sure.

 

[Thomasss]

Jack O'Connor said long time ago, no deer ever complained about a bullet flying 100fps slower than the next.
As for the .45 comparison, it depends on what you are aiming at and for what purpose. Velocity by itself isn't worth
s*** if you can't hit the target.

 

[CDW4ME]

How about .357 S&W Magnum VS. .357SIG.

With 125s about a wash, with the heavier bullets the.357Mag starts to walk away, but that was never the intent for the .357S. IMHO it does what it set out to do pretty well.

Got ya covered.
I'm not going to use the same bullet, rather select higher energy / velocity options for both.
Selected 357 Mag load is one of the ones that built is reputation for having good "stopping power" .
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/357-sig-gel-test/
4'' barrel 357 Mag Remington 125 gr. SJHP - 1,473 fps - 602# KE
357 Sig 125 gr. Winchester PDX1 Defender - 1,423 fps - 562# KE

Yes, the traditional "full power" 357 Mag load is more powerful than the 357 Sig - by 50 fps and a whopping 7% more KE.

But... (shocker ) the comparison aint over yet.
One could/can get a 8 shot 357 Mag revolver. Congratulations! You have 1/2 the capacity of a 16 round Glock 31.

I have a 357 Sig barrel for my Glock 35 which affords 16 rounds of essentially 357 Mag power, my chrono averages:
125 Ranger T @ 1,428 fps / 566# KE - this is on par with the Winchester load tested by Lucky Gunner
125 PPU FPJ @ 1,461 fps / 593# KE - "practice" ammo that is hotter than SD ammo.

In before someone posts: Yea, but the reloading manual says a 357 Mag from a 6'' barrel .... - No. Nope. Invalid, calling it now.
Barrel lengths above were comparable; a 4'' revolver and a Glock 31 (Lucky Gunner) are comparable because the Glock includes the chamber whereas the revolver doesn't.
Also, most police revolvers would have been 4'' barrels.

 

[WisBorn]

I agree with @Chuck R. 158 grain loads from 357mag start stepping away from the sig. I still like 180 hardcast from 357mag 1400 fps/783#s

Different tools for different tasks!!

Someday I will give a 357sig a try

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Here's one for you. User's that taut "the advantages" of 7mm Mauser / 7mm08 / 284 Winchester / 280 Remington over each other. When compared with the same barrel lengths it comes down to tired coffee talk and that's it. They are all magnificent cartridges and the "Honey" position in the cartridge pantheon.

 

[CDW4ME]

9mm versus 357 Mag in "pocket size" or "similar size" handguns.
Sig 365 versus 340 PD J Frame


https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
9mm Federal HST 124+P - 1,168 fps - 376# KE
357 Mag 2'' barrel Remington 125 SJHP 1,209 fps - 406# KE

Yea, 357 Mag has about 40 fps advantage and a whopping 7% more KE - In exchange for 1/2 the capacity.
In terms of incapacitation potential, or "stopping power" <---Not my term, but it is relevant to some, 9mm is on par with 357 Mag from a snub.

 

[WisBorn]

The centennial hammer does have an advantage when drawing from a pocket.

Don't get me wrong! I like micro compact 9mms, but I also like j frame revolvers. For different reasons...
Remember this a cartridge comparison thread.