case separation in die - stuck

[birdshot8's]

While depriming and neck sizing 357 Herretts, made from RP 30-30 case, I had one separate at the case head in the die. I tried the bristle brush, and using a rod to catch the rim of the mouth. No joy on both attempts.

Any tips on how to proceed. The sizer is a Pacific Durachrome.

I asked Hornady if they had any ideas, but have not received their reply.

 

[rcmodel]

Plug the small end with a tamped in rag.

Then pour the big end full of molten lead.

Once it cools, beat it out.

rc

 

[birdshot8's]

ok, Thanks I let you know.

 

[fguffey]

I have blind end pullers meaning there were times I could not get on the other side and drive something out so, I had to pull from the same side. When I could drive from the opposite side I used a tap, I ran the tap in by threading then drove out the stuck piece by driving/hitting the tap. an option, I could remove the tap and then used a bolt, with stuck cases that are stuck I use starting taps. Starting taps require as many as 8 turns before they cut a full thread.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

If you are in North Platt, Nebraska drive on over to Hornady.

F. Guffey

 

[Catpop]

I've done this before with no damage to the die. Fold a little bit of the remaining case over with a brass punch. Fill the case with cerro safe chamber alloy. Then as rc said, drive it out.
Catpop

 

[gamestalker]

That's a pretty innovative idea RC. But then again, it's no surprise coming from you. You da man!

I'll keep that filed in the back of my disorganized memory for future reference. Couple close calls, but so far I've never stuck one.

GS

 

[CLP]

I've read you can put the die in the freezer for an hour and the brass will contract at a greater rate than the brass. Using a brass punch at that point you may be able to tap it out. May be the easiest thing to try, and if not successful then you haven't invested a lot of time or effort.

 

[Dudedog]

If you have a drill bit or a tap that is a little bigger then the inside dia of the brass you might be able to get it out using one of those. Of course you need to make sure it is only a little bigger than the ID and not as big as the OD. Of course lots of lube would help. Liquid wrench, Triflow etc.

Heating/cooling might help depending on the differnet coefficients of expansion of brass and steel.
(quick check and it looks like brass expands more than steel when heated) Canned "air" cold be sprayed on the brass to cool it. If you hold the can upside down you will get liquid which will evaporate quickly and cool the brass.

Maybe both, warm up die then cool brass.


RCs plan seems like a good one as well as well.

 

[rcmodel]

Just for grins, I put a 3/8" drill bit, and a 3/8" brass rod in the freezer last night.

The steel drill bit shank measured .374" at room temp.
The brass rod measured .3745" at room temp.

After 24 hours in the -2 degree freezer?
The steel bit measured .374".
And the brass rod measured .3745".

So, I doubt that is going to work.

You might be able to pack the die with dry ice and get the case cold enough, fast enough to where you could quickly heat the die and get enough contraction / expansion difference to loosen it.

But I doubt it.

rc

 

[Dudedog]

that shoots down the heating or cooling plan.

 

[FROGO207]

You need to get a soft steel, monel, or brass rod. A 1/8 steel gas welding rod or brass brazing rod will do. It needs to be softer than the die material though so do not do this with a standard punch or chisel as they are hardened like the die. Then cut it just long enough to use as a punch, form one end to a point on one side and leave the other side rounded. Then use it as a wedge between the shoulder/neck and body, drive it in from the head end of the die using the round side against the die. This will collapse the brass casing into the empty center enough to remove it. Might have to do this in two places 45*apart though. The trick will be to do it without scratching the die. I have done this successfully to stuck brass in a standard rifle die before. Good luck.

 

[birdshot8's]

case freed.

After going through the replies, I went with suggestion to tap the case. I threaded the inside of the casing with a 3/8 coarse thread. After screwing a bolt into the case I was still not able to pull the case. While looking at the bolt and feeling sorry for myself, I thought why could I not file the bolt head so I could slide the head into a shell holder. An hour later i had a bolt which slide into a Number Two shell holder. I made the mistake of not having the ram all the way up the first attempt. I tried to pull the shell but was unable to take advantage of the cam action on the press. After positioning the ram at the top of the stroke the case slid right out. I think I will keep the bolt around for the next stuck case. Thanks to everyone who gave ideas, this is a great forum.

 

[birdshot8's]

I was just re-reading through the posts after making my progress report and I noticed fguffy's suggestion to tap the neck end and push. I would have done as he suggested, if I could READ. I saw tap and must have quit reading at that point.

And, for what it's worth, I spoke with Jim at Hornady. He said he would pull the case and recondition the die as needed, for 10 dollars to cover shipping. I like Hornady more every time I deal with them.

 

[Catpop]

Glad it worked out for you
Catpop

 

[Dudedog]

Success
bet it was sweet when you finally got it out.

 

[Dudedog]

Delete,
oopps duplicate.

 

[gamestalker]

That's pretty darn innovative!

Glad it worked out well for you.

GS

 

[WVGunman]

All I can say is, thank god for carbide dies! (And as annoying as this was for the op, better in your die than in your gun.)

 

[DC_art]

"Just for grins, I put a 3/8" drill bit, and a 3/8" brass rod in the freezer last night.

The steel drill bit shank measured .374" at room temp.
The brass rod measured .3745" at room temp.

After 24 hours in the -2 degree freezer?
The steel bit measured .374".
And the brass rod measured .3745".

So, I doubt that is going to work.

RC,

Wouldn't you expect different results from brass and steel tubes? Wouldn't that be closer to what we're looking at here?

Art

 

[rcmodel]

Possibly yes.

But I didn't have any tubes to try.

Anyway, I would expect some measurable difference in expansion rates between same diameter solid rods.
And I couldn't measure any.

If I had a lot of energy?
I would drop a sized .223 case in a sizing die.

Then mark where the case stopped with a Sharpie pin.
Then freeze it standing up in the freezer.

If the die expanded more, the Sharpie mark would be inside the die.

If the case expanded more, it would be stuck in the die.

But I ain't got the energy to try it anymore.

Because I am convinced from years of experience as a machinist, that shrink fitted parts can be done easily.
But not by heating or cooling both parts at the same rate.

The hole has to be REAL HOT!
The plug needs to be super-cooled with dry ice or liquid nitrogen.

Then the plug will tight slip fit in the hole, and 2 minutes later when the heat between the two parts equalize?

You can't beat them apart with a jack hammer!!

IMO: Freezing a die with a case stuck in it won't do anything, except make a very cold die with a case still stuck in it.

rc

 

[double bogey]

Like RC said, the parts have to be at different temps, and a wider margin than room temp to freezing. I have installed many a bearing on a motor by heating the bearing to 225°. Slides right on the motor shaft instead of beating or pressing it on, and I have pulled many stubborn bearings by heating with a torch, and using a puller. Aluminum now, expands a lot more than steel.

So heat can work, but not by heating both parts.

 

[CLP]

Just for grins, I put a 3/8" drill bit, and a 3/8" brass rod in the freezer last night.

The steel drill bit shank measured .374" at room temp.
The brass rod measured .3745" at room temp.

After 24 hours in the -2 degree freezer?
The steel bit measured .374".
And the brass rod measured .3745".

So, I doubt that is going to work.

You might be able to pack the die with dry ice and get the case cold enough, fast enough to where you could quickly heat the die and get enough contraction / expansion difference to loosen it.

But I doubt it.

rc

I'll be darned if that doesn't sounds like a challenge! Another project to pursue in the free time I don't have...

 

[rcmodel]

Gopher It!!!

Time to put this old internet wives tail to bed about getting stuck cases out in the freezer.

Rc