Case sizing. Full length vs neck only vs ?

[.38 Special]

I’m just joking. No offense meant

I kind of am too. Nothing sillier than an old fool who gets his feathers ruffled on the internet.

 

[FROGO207]

I can't shoot the difference at 200YDS so I usually partial full length size. Minimum FLS for gas guns. Works well for me.

 

[GoldieMI]

I FL Size all my loads. from 223 to 6PPC to 300WM to 50BMG
standard dies, arbor dies, bushing dies...all are FL sizers
I try to be consistent every load. So my choice for me is to FL Size.

 

[FLIGHT762]

At some number of neck sizings, the shooter will have to take a cleaning rod to knock the fired case out of the chamber. Brass work hardens and given enough neck sizing cycles, the body will stick in the chamber.

^^^^^^This^^^^^^ Or, you will be beating your bolt handle open with a 2X4 and might get lucky not to snap the bolt handle off.

A lot of us here have been loading a very long time and have gone through this with N/O sizing. Yes, it can be done, but there's no accuracy advantage.

If you're bent on doing this, keep precise notes on how many times you've neck sized. You will probably get away with 3-4 N/O loadings before needing to F/L size.

 

[The Glockodile]

You can usually feel the difference in the bolt lift after your last firing - that's your brass telling you that it's time to skip neck sizing this time around, and do full length sizing (before resuming neck sizing once again).

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

If you're bent on doing this, keep precise notes on how many times you've neck sized. You will probably get away with 3-4 N/O loadings before needing to F/L size.

I recently retired a batch of brass; 7.62x54r PPU that was used when I got it.

I neck turned and uniformed the flash holes. I full-length sized and trimmed the batch - I think it started as 92 pieces.

I then fired the batch 17 times, neck-sized only, with a Lee collet neck die, in a 1942 Finn M39. I annealed every 3rd firing.

No sticky bolts, no problems chambering.

The exception rather than the rule ? Perhaps.

I'm on firing #7 on a batch of WIN brass in the same rifle, same treatment.

 

[Otto]

^^^ The Lee Collet Necksizing die gets my approval as well. Lee made modifications to them in 2019 which enables a small portion of the neck to protrude through the end of the Collet-Sizing fingers. This mod facilitates better seating of the bullet. These dies can produce extremely concentric ammo. It's one of the few Lee products I actually recommend.

 

[murf]

I used "fitted necks" for a while. This is a case and chamber set up so that the neck has just enough room to release the bullet. This prevents the case from changing, dimensionally, and allows for reloading without any sizing whatsoever. The downside was/is that anything - a bit of fouling, an unburned powder granule, etc. - which interferes with bullet release can skyrocket pressures.

Doubtless it's another thing we did "back in the day" which now would be met with snarky disdain.

that is how my grandfather shot benchrest back in the early sixties. his 40x in 222 magnum had a tight neck chamber and he just primed the case, poured in the measured powder and hand seated the bullet.

i learned to neck size my varmint reloads back then (bump/fl sizing? no such thing). times, obviously, have changed.

murf

 

[Ranger99]

JMHO- it depends on the firearm, the
chamber dimensions, the rifling, the
shooter's goals, the tools he's using to
get there, etc.
Some I do for certain things, some not.
Lots of factors. It's like a lot of other
things. Ultimately each person has to
cut their own path after wading through
the information, some of which isn't reliable.

 

[Walkalong]

No sticky bolts, no problems chambering.

The exception rather than the rule ? Perhaps.

The pressure one is running at makes a big difference in how long before you have issues.

 

[AJC1]

The pressure one is running at makes a big difference in how long before you have issues.

Fact. I have reloaded 4227 loaded cases 5 times with minimal sizing and no trimming. Pressure changes everything.

 

[stillquietvoice]

To your point, even the most ardent neck sizers will have to FL size their brass.

I wonder if when they eventually do FL size, do they wait until late at night, when no one’s home, with all the shads drawn and the lights turned low to perform this abomination? Do they feel dirty afterwards?

This is where the real excitement is for them, hoping they can get away with something wicked.

Seriously though I got a case stuck that was neck sized due to a case being stuck in my fl die, ran out of lube and bought graphite case lube, bought a new die set, then finally unstuck the fl die.

 

[Rule3]

OMG! Wait until you start researching seating depth and ow many nanos off the lands, concentricity. brass volume, bullet weights and all that!

 

[BWS]

Eric Cortina video shows his..... short sighted'ness. He's assuming everyone is running max loads.....and/or it's all about competition.

It is VERY doable to have cast loads that you can wear the brass out,with say 20 firings,and never FL size.

You just have to test and find out what's going to work with YOUR particular application. Most,when running near max loads,can "get away with" 3 or 4 firings before case grows enough to require setting the shoulder back. Another area,as some have posted above,is he's using custom dies. Great,but over the counter dies come in a full range dimensionally. So a tight die can actually make your shoulder move fwd,or backwards. Which is why you have to check.

It's a deep rabbit hole. Someone used to digging it with a backhoe needs to realize some folks are limited to a small shovel. Shooting your mouth off because you see things one way,and everyone else HAS to do it that way is fundamentally against what handloading is about,IMO.

I neck size ONLY,on some rigs.... and FL size ONLY on others.

 

[Varminterror]

It is VERY doable to have cast loads that you can wear the brass out,with say 20 firings,and never FL size.

The context is the pursuit of peak accuracy. Plinking cast loads have very little to do with this discussion.

 

[BWS]

Did I say "plinking"? Don't think so.

So,are you saying the only way to, "the pursuit of peak accuracy" is through max/full pressure loads? If so,hasn't been my experience.

Another aspect of this is big,honkin factory chambers. Neck sizing is useful for leaving part of the neck unsized to help center the round in that part of the chamber. Not all competition's allow custom barrels. Just sayin,Mr Cortina,and anyone claiming "my way or the highway" is doing handloading a disservice. If you want to follow his advice,knock yourself out.... here's hoping you nothing but X's. Good luck with your shooting.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I say "plinking"? Don't think so.

So,are you saying the only way to, "the pursuit of peak accuracy" is through max/full pressure loads? If so,hasn't been my experience.

I cannot agree more. There is more than one way to skin a squirrel.

Example :
Factory battle sights, a stock as issued Finn M39 3-line rifle. No bedding, no special barrel, no match chamber. No special match bullets, just home-cast Lee, right at 1500 fps.
100 yds, front rest, rear bag.
My eyes, and I am in my 7th decade.
Neck sized, probably fired 10 or more times without FL resize.



Okay, it's not 10 shots in one hole at 500 yds. But, it's also not a big money rifle, with a big money scope, with coddled match ammo.

Just sayin,Mr Cortina,and anyone claiming "my way or the highway" is doing handloading a disservice.

I watched his video, something I rarely do.

At least, I watched it until he said something like - "I'm not trying to tell you what to do..." then, 3 sentences later, he's yelling "...STOP NECK SIZING !!!"

That was enough for me.

 

[BWS]

Not everyone is,or should be "out front" trying to lead horses to water. Especially in this day and age of firearm restraints. I have a very hard time writing on technical matters,to the point of almost giving up. Never made it through HS,instead WAY more comfortable in front of one of our machines.

Which brings another minor tidbit with Mr Cortina.

He's recently gone whole hog into building a machine shop(which I've sent him mucho support on). Hopefully,he learns to keep his rants in check when around guys who've been turning handles longer than he's been alive,just sayin.

 

[BWS]

I know quite a few people that think along those terms. You just have to know your strengths and weaknesses....

Which,BTW is one of the keys towards better shooting(or fill in the blank). The ability to make "calls" on yourself is a learned skill. It is,I believe one of the defining points between being an amateur and a professional. Lots more to it but,once again I ain't no writer,haha.

 

[red rick]

Good thread and information . I just bought my only bolt action rifle and thought neck sizing would be the way to go since I would only be loading for that rifle . I looked at the dies at the LGS and was going to buy a neck sizing die , but they didn’t have any . Glad now , because I will be full length sizing now .

 

[Howa 9700]

So am getting vibes that this is not settled science?

On Cortina's video, he shows a fired case that will not allow bolt to close. If neck sized only, how does that change? His shoulder bump is the same amount as the thickness of a piece of scotch tape.....but bolt then does close.....and neck is sized down to hold bullet in place. Seems that is the best of all conditions (and BTW, exact same method shown by gunsmith Randy Selby). I wasn't sure you could do that with standard dies.

BTW, in the Lee book, they say if you take a fire formed case that now fits and will chamber, do what is suggested......crank die down to touch shell holder and then back it up to partial size......case will then be a tight fit. Basically the opposite of Cortina and Selby. Book suggests the user try it and that is on my agenda for today.

Am also handicapped by the fact that most of my fired brass has only been fired once. It may take a few more firings to matter?

But have seen enough to now be curious. Have ordered a Lee collet neck size die (Midway) for caliber that gets shot the most. Price of admission is about $18......small price to pay for a curious mind.

 

[Walkalong]

Good thread and information .

It is, although I did have to clean up some noise, remember, give your opinion, whatever it is, even contrary, but be nice about it, don't make it personal.

So am getting vibes that this is not settled science?

There are so many applications out there that there are only a few "set" rules. And people have varying likes about how they approach things. A couple of folks have pointed out a good reason for neck sizing that make sense to me. I just don't have any rifle it makes sense for except .22 Hornet.

 

[The Glockodile]

So am getting vibes that this is not settled science?

Unfortunately, no.

There is a lot of Voodoo in what we do.

We sometimes think we’ve gotten lucky with a certain maneuver, making errors of association...

...without having truly established “all else being equal.”



For instance...

 

[LOLBELL]

Isn’t it great that we can do what works best for ourselves. I have a 22/250 that gets it’s best accuracy with neck sizing with a Lee Collet die. I have a 270 that gets its best accuracy by F/L sizing. I figure I’ll continue to do what works best for me instead of listening to the experts.

The 22/250 does a 1/4” ragged hole at a 100 and at 800 it never misses a 1/2 liter water bottle. The 270 does a 3/8 hole at 100 and 2” at 250.

It took a lot of powder, bullets, and primers to find the accuracy I have with these two rifles. I think I will stick to what I have been doing and let the “experts” do what works for them.

 

[Fatelvis]

One benefit of neck sizing (for two or three firings), is a good way of finding your true chamber measurement. Knowing the actual chamber size allows you to bump the shoulder back the desired .001"-.003".