case support in Redhawk 45 ACP/45 Colt

Status
Not open for further replies.

HankR

Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
543
Location
upper midwest
I'm thinking of grabbing one of these. Does the additional milling for the moon clips cause any issue when shooting "Ruger Only" loads in 45 Colt? There isn't one locally for me to look at, and I'm having trouble imagining how each load inserts into the cylinder.

Do both cases (Colt/ACP) tend to extract un-bulged and require minimal resizing piror to reloading?

Thanks,
 
It shouldn't.

The moon clip cut is very thin, and well above the solid case head web in the case.

I'm quite sure if it caused any unsupported case bulging, they wouldn't / wouldn't do it for legal reasons.

rc
 
While I don't have a convertible Redhawks, I do have two 5" guns, one in 41 mag and one in 45 Colt--- these guns are built like tanks and I doubt there would be a problem. JMHO of course. :)
 
Never even been in these waters, question:

Is there even a "Ruger only" load for those .45s?

Todd.
 
My manuals pre-date the re-introduction of the Redhawks in .45 Colt. I was assuming the Redhawks could take the same pressures as the Blackhawks, but Idon't have any published data in front of me now. I might not be remembering that correctly, and the newer reloading manuals may make a distinction between the two.

I'd check it out before reloading any hot loads. At this point I'm just wondering if I should ask my dealer to get one for me to look at, or wait to bump into one by chance.
 
I certainly hope so. Ive run some pretty nasty loads through a redhawk in 45 Colt.
 
The Redhawk can take higher pressures than the Blackhawk. The one I had demonstrated all kinds of ejection problems even with normal .45 Colt loads though, so there wasn't much point in going Ruger-only in it. It got three trips back to the factory before Ruger swapped me for an Alaskan.
 
Had no ejection problems in multiple loads with both calibers in two samples here.
And I shot BB on both calibers.
Denis
 
The Redhawk can take higher pressures than the Blackhawk.

I thought that was the case. My question was specifically about the extra milling for the moon clips when using 45 ACP. Does this expose enough of the case to cause problems when shooing 45 Colt?

Had no ejection problems in multiple loads with both calibers in two samples here. And I shot BB on both calibers.

What's "BB"?

Thanks,
 
Buffalo Bore, AKA SUNUMABITCHTHAT HURTS!!!!!!! :)
It is written that ye shall find no significantly hotter commercial .45 Colt loads under the sun.
Denis
 
Thanks Denis, I have heard of Buffalo Bore, just didn't get the abbreviation. I've been lurking on some other boards (just googling reviews of this gun) and seen some of your posts there.

Reading between the lines, you're happy with the hybrid and would do it again? I like the concept, and am thinking of grabbing one. My local dealer actually has one now, but I won't be in that town till later in the week.

Thanks for the video 243winxb. There are two guys on the other forums who have had light primer strikes, and the consensus seemed to be that it's not all that common (only two guns, or maybe three now, out of lots) and that it seems to be a problem w/ the Ruger moonclips and brandX works better? But then I saw Jeff's review at Gunblast. He rarely has anything bad to say about any gun, but had to failures to ignite w/ some older BB, which made me assume it was 45 Colt, not ACP, no moonclip to blame?

I don't want to buy a gun w/ known problems. I'm a Ruger fan, and a huge 45 Colt fan, but had to send a SP-101 in .22 back to Ruger last year for light primer strikes, so I'm hesitant, but...
 
Buffalo Bore singles out the Redhawk as one of several designs with known light strike problems. The moonclips may be compounding an existing problem. How big of a problem, I don't really know but Bowen specifically makes an extended firing pin to help fight the problem. If you got the Redhawk and had problems you could try that.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=139
 
Not to be crassly commercial, since it's not paying for either the new Maserati or the condo in Cancun, but there's a full write-up on the convertible Red in a Kindle ebook on Amazon.

I mention it occasionally when the subject comes up because there isn't room here for much detail.

Essentially, anytime you create as much "freebore" or un-controlled (fill in your own term) bullet jump with a short cartridge (ACP) in a long chamber (.45 Colt), you can expect SOME degree of affect on short (ACP) accuracy.

I had run into that before on another company's custom convertible Super Red in .45 ACP, .45 Colt, and .454 Casull.
ACP accuracy was dismal in that OTHER gun, and ACP velocities were way down.
I had expected something similar with Ruger's approach.
Which is not a criticism of Ruger, just an acknowledgement of the two-caliber/one cylinder situation.

In the two convertible samples from Ruger, ACP accuracy was markedly affected & ran from good to lousy.

I had NO misfires with either sample in any load in either caliber.
No problems with clip function binding cylinder rotation in either gun.
No problems with hot BBs in extraction or function, and .45 Colt accuracy was just fine.
No support issues.

The small grip I like, but NOT with heavy loads.
Oucharooney, and had to put a full-sized Hogue grip on to finish the hot sauce.

Reds are known for an intermittent light-strike ignition issue.
I did not encounter it.

My two older Bowenized Reds have his longer firing pins, just to eliminate the possibility.
Bowen as of last month does not have his new extended firing pin ready to sell for the current revised Red & Super Red firing pin set-up.
Don't order his existing pin made for the older design & expect it to fit in the new guns.

Of the two convertible test samples I had here, the first (with the worst ACP accuracy) was returned to Ruger.
The second is now at Cylinder & Slide for a custom makeover.
That means I'm keeping it, and the fact that I sent it off for custom work should tell you something about my opinion of the gun.

That said- I will not be using it as an ACP-only gun. The Smith in dedicated .45 ACP caliber is a better candidate for such use.
The Ruger will be primarily used with .45 Colt & sighted in accordingly. The ACP capability will be secondary & rarely, if at all, used. Backup caliber, sorta.

C&S should be getting around to the Red shortly, and one of the work items will be pre-emptive discussion of the potential light strike issue.
Since Bowen doesn't have his firing pin ready to go, we'll have to settle for PROBABLY just shaving the hammer face slightly while it's at C&S.

As soon as Bowen's pin IS ready, that'll be added later on down the road by my local guy.
Besides the two older Reds, I've also had his pins installed in Blackhawks, just to be sure.

If you plan to shoot a lot of ACP, expect to have to take the time to find a load that gives you accuracy you can live with.
If you plan to switch back & forth, using similar bullet weights & velocities in both calibers should give you the closest correlation in using the same sight setting for both calibers.
Denis
 
Wow, thanks DPris. I didn't realize I was asking for a professional review for free. I do appreciate it.

45 Colt accuracy is more of a concern than the ACP, but I'd like them both to be accurate. Is there something Ruger can do if ACP accuracy is pathetic, or is that just luck of the draw?

Thanks again,
 
When I discussed the first sample's ACP accuracy with Ruger, they offered a second sample.
There were tighter chambers in the second gun & the forcing cones between the two were different.

Again- spend a couple bucks on that Kindle book if you want more detail. :)

As far as what YOU can do to improve ACP accuracy, just keep trying different loads & bullets till you get something that works, and that includes bullet weights and bullet diameters.

Look at the forcing cone, match bullet diameter to chamber mouth, if possible check mouths for consistency, if necessary have inconsistent mouths corrected.

Presumably the second sample was closer to where the cylinder & cone needed to be.
I've seen reports of other shooters saying "Mine's accurate!", but few post measured groups at measured distances off a rest to define what "accurate" means to them.

I don't know what's coming off the line now or how they're shooting, both my samples were from last year.
Denis
 
Some of the Lyman cast bullets for the auto rim like the 452423 or 454423 .(if you can find one) , with the longer bearing surface may align straighter in the long cylinder throat, producing better accuracy. They take a roll crimp, if i remember correctly.
 
Last edited:
..that Kindle book...

OK, I just bought my first two kindle books ever, after installing the kindle app on a little-used Ipad (and I did buy them, even though they gave me Kindle Unlimited for 7 days for free for finally installing the app).

I got the ebook on the 1894C also, just to keep it company.

I'll give them a read,

Thanks for the help,

Hank the Luddite
 
Last edited:
Some of the Lyman cast bullets for the auto rim like the 452423 or 454423 .(if you can find one) , with the longer bearing surface may align straighter in the long cylinder throat, producing better accuracy. They take a roll crimp, if i remember correctly.

Well it isn't really a long cylinder throat per se. On a DA gun like this, the cylinder throat is the same whether you are shooting .45 ACP or .45 Colt out of it. It isn't like a SA conversion gun with two cylinders in which the shorter round will have a long, supported cylinder throat, even with a lot of freebore. In a DA gun like this, the bullet initially is just travelling down the open chamber unsupported until it hits the throat, and you are relying on luck for it to hit somewhat aligned. Keep in mind .45 Colt also tends to have generous chamber dimensions, so it'll be about 0.480" in front of the forcing cone, so the .452" bullet bearing surface won't be touching anything out of a .45 Auto. Also worth noting is that since the bullet will not be engaging the cylinder throat, the cartridge will just be lying on the bottom of the chamber. The neck of a .45 ACP is around .473" lying at the bottom of a .480" hole. The odds are against you that the bullet is going to hit the cylinder throat evenly.
 
And therein lies the dilemma of shooting a short round in a long chamber. :)
Denis
 
Yeah I think it makes decent sense in an SA with the two cylinders, and it isn't so bad for a lot of DA guns where the difference in cartridge length is often about 1/8" or so between specials and magnums, but for the .45acp vs .45 Colt, you are talking over 3/8" difference in case length.
 
I do have a Blackhawk, with both cylinders, and I do like that.

I'm really wanting a 45 Colt Redhawk w/ a 5.5 inch barrel, so I probably ought to wait for them to make a run of those, had considered the 4.2 inch, but decided to wait on the 5.5. When they came out with the 45 ACP option they got my attention again. (I've got a 9 mm, moonclip revolver and used to shoot a S&W 625 back in the day. I kind of like the concept). A 4.2 inch 45 ACP revolver makes more sense to me than a 4.2 inch 45 Colt, and, since I was getting tired of waiting on the longer colt anyway....

The E-book had me pretty much decided to get it. Now I'm back on the fence. I do reload, and do have other guns, so it's not like having the ability to shoot 45 ACP out of that gun will make or break my day...

I guess I'm still conflicted, but probably leaning towards waiting. I'll decide I really want one the day after Ruger stops making them if the past is any indication.

thanks,
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.