cases getting stuck in wheel gun

[jeeptim]

Have a 45lc and some of the brass after shot is really tough to get out.
Loading light loads 1 load is 185gr rnfp plated 6gr bullseye wlp and cbc cases. I mean really stuck. Is it the cases? Seems that the cbc case is a lil more pron to stick. Also the light loads are sooting up a lil more then I would like. Also heaver bullets loaded light stick less.
After some load work up finding 230 to 250gr lrnfp seem to be working far better then lighter slugs.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You are probably right at the starting wright for that bullet/powder combination so excessive pressure is probably not the problem.

Did you check inside the cylinder holes and see if they are dirty or there is something inside the cylinders causing the sticking? Do you clean your brass before you load or do you use the brass as is? Shiny brass helps extraction.

 

[jeeptim]

Hey Arch
Yeah the brass is polished cylinders clean when I start and no obstructions.
So just not sure.
Thanx

 

[cfullgraf]

My Smith 25-5 (45 Colt) is sensitive to cases.

With the same powder charge and bullets, Remington cases drop right out while Winchester cases stick like they are glued in.

May not be your problem, but gives you another data point.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Hey Arch
Yeah the brass is polished cylinders clean when I start and no obstructions.
So just not sure.
Thanx

wow, very strange. Your charge is not high, are you completely sure the powder charge is what you think it is? BUT, even if you're off a little it takes A LOT of pressure to expand a case enough to stick them in the cylinder.

I know there is something here we are missing but I just can't think of what would do it...

 

[jeeptim]

Could it be a crimp problem? To deep of a roll crimp? I'm kinda at a loss as well.

 

[Iron Sight]

Seem to remember someone suggesting checking for chambers that have become bulged/non uniformly expanded. The fired cartridge case expands into an area that restricts case removal.

 

[gamestalker]

Iron Sight hit on a very possible cause for unexplained sticking of wheel gun brass. Also, are all the cases extracting with unusual resistance from all the cylinder chambers, or just some? And does it do it with factory ammunition also? If it is doing it with all ammunition you run through it, then it's certainly a good time to do some measuring.

If the cylinders are indeed clean and relatively smooth, and the load is absolutely what your intending, then often, and unfortunately, bulged cylinders are often the cause.

Take a caliper or other appropriate measuring tool and measure the outside of the cylinder. Take multiple measurements from the back to the front of the cylinder. The measurements should be consistent from back to front. If your measurements get larger as you move forward of the back of the cylinder you have a bulged cylinder.

If all the above is in good order, I got nothing. There is only so much that can go wrong with a wheel gun cylinder that will cause difficult extraction.

GS

 

[FROGO207]

I have several Ruger Blackhawks and some did have brass sticking issues. On my two 30 Carbine ones especially. The cylinders looked OK to me so I did some looking on the net and found that polishing the part where the brass goes with a split dowel and 600 grit emery paper would help. I tried it to one of the Rugers and it immediately stopped the sticking problems. So any others that I had sticking problems with got the same treatment with equally good results. You should look for bulged cylinders as well but none of mine had that problem. Good luck.

 

[JohnM]

Kinda need to know what gun and its history.
And if factory brass is sticking too.
Poster above mentioned Blackhawks, I've seen tight chambers in them too.
But, I have an old S&W with a tight cylinder.

 

[45lcshooter]

your larger loads will create more pressure, sucking in the case to spit out the bullet, so the larger load cases will be easier to get out.

The smaller load cases often don't have enough pressure to push the case where it needs to go. Meaning pushing the crimp back to straight, and in smaller load cases it has to make the high pressures with little powder.

Your load to me seems a little lighter than it should, all my loads start out at 7gr, and i don't have a problem with stuck cases, even mixing 7gr shells with 8gr, 8.5gr, and the hot rod 9gr.

if you sort by headstamp, try another headstamp with your low load. CBC brass some people swear by it, some swear at it, I usually swear at it. I headstamp all my brass, so every MTM box of 50, is all the same, once i shoot that MTM box up, then i move on to the next headstamp.

the lighter the load, the more air is in the case, which means not all the powder will burn so it just sizzles away(best thing i could come with to explain it) Example: take a water bottle that is half full, act like its in your holster, draw it, and shoot. the water is bounching around, same thing with the powder. Just thinking of centrifugal force, when you draw and pull the trigger most of your powder will be right at the bullet, so your fire from the primer has to travel all that way, then it has to fill the case with pressure to push the bullet out. Now in a larger load case, you have less air gap, so it will burn the powder and get the pressure it needs to push the bullet out the barrel.

 

[blarby]

My superblackhawk drops the first wheel-load out under the power of gravity alone.

Every cylinder after that requires manual extraction using the ejector rod.

 

[jeeptim]

Gents Thank you.
You have given me several things to look at. After the range I will report.

 

[gamestalker]

Both my SRH and SBH will empty by gravity alone on the first firing as well. After that it requires a nudge from the rod, but by no means would I consider it as tough to extract, and I have been loading exclusively with H110/296 for a good number of years.

IMHO, if the brass qualifies as sticking, thus needing more than just a simple push of the rod to extract it, something is rotten in Denmark. To reiterate, it's either a bulged cylinder, a problem with the load, rough or dirty cylinder walls or ammunition.

But we really need to hear back from the OP regarding the details of the firearm history.

GS

 

[ArchAngelCD]

your larger loads will create more pressure, sucking in the case to spit out the bullet, so the larger load cases will be easier to get out.

The smaller load cases often don't have enough pressure to push the case where it needs to go. Meaning pushing the crimp back to straight, and in smaller load cases it has to make the high pressures with little powder.

Your load to me seems a little lighter than it should, all my loads start out at 7gr, and i don't have a problem with stuck cases, even mixing 7gr shells with 8gr, 8.5gr, and the hot rod 9gr.

if you sort by headstamp, try another headstamp with your low load. CBC brass some people swear by it, some swear at it, I usually swear at it. I headstamp all my brass, so every MTM box of 50, is all the same, once i shoot that MTM box up, then i move on to the next headstamp.

the lighter the load, the more air is in the case, which means not all the powder will burn so it just sizzles away(best thing i could come with to explain it) Example: take a water bottle that is half full, act like its in your holster, draw it, and shoot. the water is bounching around, same thing with the powder. Just thinking of centrifugal force, when you draw and pull the trigger most of your powder will be right at the bullet, so your fire from the primer has to travel all that way, then it has to fill the case with pressure to push the bullet out. Now in a larger load case, you have less air gap, so it will burn the powder and get the pressure it needs to push the bullet out the barrel.

Please don't take this as a personal attack because it's not, I'm just stating facts. Everything you said there is incorrect.

Pressure expands the case, it doesn't suck it in and the expanding gasses move the bullet, not the case sucking in and spitting the bullet. That just doesn't happen.

If the bullet moves the crimp is probably gone, the load itself doesn't remove the crimp.

What do you mean by small and large loads?

The excess space in the case has nothing to do with proper powder burn unless the powder is known to be position sensitive. Primers are quite strong and the slightly forward position of the powder won't prevent ignition under normal circumstances. Smokeless powder burns so quickly the slight space in the case will not prevent the expanding hot gasses from moving the bullet. I think powder burn rates are measured in milliseconds.

The term "air gap" does not pertain to the space in the case not occupied by powder.

Do you have a load manual or are you using online data only? A manual is very informative especially the front part before the load data.

I'm not trying to put you down. I will be happy to answer any questions you have and I'm sure there are many others willing too..

 

[moxie]

Thanks ArchAngelCD. Beat me to it.

 

[rangerphil]

As an additional suggestion, you might try the following to try to isolate the chamber(s) that are causing the problem. Fire one round a time and then move to the next cylinder and see if you have a particular one that is causing the problem.

 

[Slamfire]

I don't have your pistol in my hand and I don't know how much resistance you are getting to extraction.

Here is a wild guess; maybe your brass is too clean. From George Frost's book, aluminum cases are coated in ceresin wax to keep them sticking in firearm chambers. If you polish your brass to un usual clean levels, maybe the brass is sticking in the chamber, and maybe the bullets are adhering to the inside of the case. How about rubbing some Johnson paste wax on the outside of the cases and on some bullets before seating?. If you polish the paste wax the case will look wonderfully bright and shiny and yet the wax will still provide an adequate level of lubrication.

 

[rcmodel]

The question has been ask, but we still don't know what kind of gun it is?

SA? DA?
Make & Model?

It may not matter, but it might help knowing.

rc

 

[Slamfire]

Loading light loads 1 load is 185gr rnfp plated 6gr bullseye wlp and cbc cases.

I should have asked earlier, are you using a scale to measure 6 grains and do you have check weights? I really can't believe you are having pressure problems at six grains, unless, it is not six grains.

 

[ridgerunner1965]

how do your primers look on fired caseings? over or under pressure load will be evident by bulging, flattening or cratered primers. sooting of the case is another thing to look at.

your load does not seem high, but again we need to know the gun etc. ive loaded for a lot of quality revolvers and never had this prob. i have had this prob on lower quality guns with rough or non concnetric chambers.

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

im just throwing this out there, I can't check your load. someone please correct me if I'm wrong

if your casings & gun are really dirty, it indicates you are getting an inefficient burn from too little charge, and if the cases aren't expanding properly in the chamber that soot could burn around the case as well, increasing the amount of force necessary to extract.

 

[murf]

could be improperly annealed cases. try a different brand.

murf

 

[mtrmn]

A long time ago I loaded some lighter than normal 38 spl loads for a 357 Blackhawk using Bullsye. For some reason they pushed the primers back out of the cases a little and the gun would lock up when it tried to rotate the cylinder. When I went back to the normal heavier load the problem went away. The only thing I changed was the powder charge. Primer pockets were plenty tight.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

A long time ago I loaded some lighter than normal 38 spl loads for a 357 Blackhawk using Bullsye. For some reason they pushed the primers back out of the cases a little and the gun would lock up when it tried to rotate the cylinder. When I went back to the normal heavier load the problem went away. The only thing I changed was the powder charge. Primer pockets were plenty tight.

The primer almost always pushes back out of the primer pocket when fired but when you have sufficient pressure the cartridge will slam against the breach which pushes the primer back in. What you experienced is a classic sign of too light a load.