Cast 45 acp info/tips

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TEXASJD

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New to making my own cast got a lee .452 mold 200g RF. I will probably use hp-38, I have Lee ALOX lube and can powder coat. (gun is 1911) I will be loading on a 650 Dillion press.

Any tips ?

My questions?

Do I have to run bullets through a sizing die if I powder coat?

Does Alox dry completely?
 
What is your barrel groove diameter? A cast bullet has to fit the throat on a 1911 .45 acp, maybe .001" larger than the groove diameter. Most 1911 .45 acp are .451". My experience is that a Lee mold may run a little larger than it is supposed to, and if so, you may need to size it down. My experience is best accuracy comes with unsized bullets. I have some pistols that have chambers so tight they would not chamber a cartridge loaded with a bullet big enough to fit their oversize groove diameter. There are also pistols where the groove diameter is so oversize the bullet is not going to fill them, and cast bullets will result in incredible Leading.

I have no experience with powder coat.

If the ID of your cartridge case is really small, and your bullets soft, the cartridge case can size down a bullet that fits the groove diameter such that it becomes too small, resulting in Leading.

When casting bullets, a couple percent Tin is your friend, increasing Lead fluidity and bullet fill-out.

I have found HP38, which is just WW-231, to be an excellent powder in .45 acp.

I believe you are saying you have Lee Liquid Alox as your lubricant. Lee Liquid Alox is one of a family of Calcium soap products of the Lubrizol Corporation, which bought the old Alox Corporation long ago. Lee Liquid Alox is Alox 606-55, indicating it is cut with mineral spirits: https://www.thegearboxguys.com/data/ALOX606-55pds.pdf My experience is that it frequently feels a little tacky after it drys, and people who find that offensive will add more things to it, or dust the lubricated bullets with something to remove the tackiness. I have noticed that it can build up on reloading equipment, which can do dangerous things like incrementally increase seating depth until it is dangerous, but Dillon Seat dies are designed to allow cleaning without losing adjustment. Be careful with the term "Alox", as there is another older concept in bullet lubrication where a greasy lubricant that is 50% Alox 2138F/50% Beeswax is pushed into deep grooves on the bullet.
 
TEXASJD said:
New to making my own cast got a lee .452 mold 200g RF. I will probably use hp-38, I have Lee ALOX lube and can powder coat. (gun is 1911) I will be loading on a 650 Dillion press.

Any tips ?

My questions?

Do I have to run bullets through a sizing die if I powder coat?

Does Alox dry completely?
Click to expand...

I tried pan lubing bullets briefly and lubing with Alox even more briefly before going to powder coating.

I found both previously mentioned processes to be both extremely messy and very smokey upon firing; not worth it IMO.

Of course, millions of bullets so treated have been fired by millions of reloaders over many years so, naturally it's a matter of personal choice.

To answer your question about sizing after coating that's a solid maybe (Leaning towards probably)

Powder coating does add to the entire overall outside dimensions of the bullet so depending on what your finished diameter is you may have to size.

I size all of my cast and PC'd bullets regardless just for the sake of uniformity and Lee sizing dies are very inexpensive.

You also may have to seat your bullets a little deeper because the powder coating also adds to the dimensions that will not/cannot be sized (ogive) leading to your bullets being jammed into the leade/rifling.

Not a big deal but you might have to adjust your powder charges accordingly to allow for less internal space in your case as pressure could become excessive quickly especially if you're already loading to the upper limits of performance.

9mm and .40S&W seem to be particularly susceptible to this.

As far as Alox staying "tacky" is been my very limited experience that they do remain a little tacky.

I even tried an old trick of mixing Alox with Johnsons paste wax and mineral spirits (the exact proportions escape my memory since I gave up on it very quickly in favor of PC)

Hope this helps.

Stay safe!
 
Thin the Lee Liquid Alox with mineral spirits , you want to tuble lube and leave a thin barely visable golden color wash of lube . Too many use too much and get smokey results .
A light thin wash of alox-mineral spirits , thin it to no thicker than log cabin pancake syrup .

If your Lee mould drops them close to ,452" in theory you don't need to size ... Lee advocates casting , light tumble in thin LLA , let dry and load ... try it a few times before giving up on it ... this method is very quick and easy to do . If the LLA coating doesnt dry hard but still has some tack to it ...dust them with a tiny little bit of cornstarch or talcum powder or a automotive product called Motor Mica...superfine Mica used as a dry lube in assembling engines . In a pinch I found Johnson's Baby Powder will eliminate the tackies also .

You will need to size if they drop from the mould oversize or if you powder coat them ... if you can get away without sizing ... that's good !
Sooner or later you might need to start sizing ... the Lyman 450 Sizer/Lubricator I bought in 1976 was the best thing I ever spent money on ... one stroke of the handle yields a sized, lubed , gas check seated bullet ready to load ... nothing is faster . Start saving your money .
Gary
 
Y-T71 said:
To answer your question about sizing after coating that's a solid maybe (Leaning towards probably)
Click to expand...
That's an absolute "YES"
Size them back to 0.452


(I'd size them no matter what in any case.
They need to be made uniform.)
 
MEHavey said:
That's an absolute "YES"
Size them back to 0.452


(I'd size them no matter what in any case.
They need to be made uniform.)
Click to expand...

Like iI said in my post, I size everything for the sake of uniformity (and he probably will too) but it's not necessarily an absolute "YES" .

Buddy of mine loads for an Italian SAA clone and is able to cast, coat, load and shoot without sizing and getting perfectly satisfactory results.

Now I don't know what kind of dimensions he's working with (nor do I know the OP's) but it's entirely possible (however, not necessarily likely) that under certain dimensional circumstances cast and PC'd bullets might NOT need sized.

That will be up to the individual gun and components that he's working with.
 
I figure if I’m going to take the time and effort to cast, lube, do brass prep and them hand load my ammo, I can take a second to size each bullet so they are a uniform diameter.
 
I run a few Lee 45acp bullets and finding a good seating stem is critical. Now you can buy a different mold cheaper than getting a stem made or dealing with crooked bullets. The cone bullet designs Lee makes are superb. A swc seating stem works every time and a 2 step expander will make your life a breeze.
 
Y-T71 said:
loads for an Italian SAA clone
Click to expand...
You can get away w/ a lot in a single action.
Not so much in a 1911 and/or any autopistol

And (honest), a PC'd bullet needs to to sized back to spec dimensions unless it really casts undersize
 
Slug your bore. Size accordingly . I skipped traditional lube all together for my home cast bullets, I'm fine with traditional lube but didn't want to buy a lubrisizer and all the fixin's. Instead I got a lee die that holds inexpensive bushings of any size you desire and they're cheap. I size after coating and that's been fine.

I'm not a fan of the alox , it's great if you've got nothing else but I don't like the gooey bullets, works fine though.

I'm using hi-tek coating which is similar to powder coat but I feel like it coats more evenly. The big benefit of coatings is that the hardness of the bullet isn't as crucial to prevent leading. Accuracy may be a different story but in my experience nothing leads if it's coated, undersized hard as a rock goofy bullets will do. Obviously you want to make good bullets though, there's a lot going on there and it's as far down the rabbit hole as you'd care to go. There is no golden rule or fact that can't be argued in casting because every gun is a law unto itself. Weird stuff huh?

You're gonna have to tinker with it some.
 
I started casting for my Thompson Auto Ordnance 1911 which was picky about ammo. RN ran fine, SWC would choke unless the seating depth was perfect and it changed depending on whether they were Bear Creek moly coated, plated or cast/lube so I ditched SWC's completely. I chose the Lee TL452-230 TC because there is no transition between the cone of the bullet and the case and less chance of a "shelf" causing a 3 point jam.
jjLIVJKM_o.jpg
Worked great tumble lubed with Recluse's 45/45/10 formula of Alox, Johnson's Paste Wax and oderless mineral spirits.

Since then, I learned how to powder coat and now I powder coat all 9/38/40/45 handgun bullets

utuDK66n_o.jpg

Here's a sloppy thick powder coated Lee 356-120-TC after the bake:

JTf5qbrP_o.jpg
3YGkWihr_o.jpg

After sizing:
B3JmecFT_o.jpg
KiTVcumX_o.jpg

That flashing at the bottom makes no difference in accuracy for a handgun
 
kcofohio said:
Here's a Missouri's compared to Lee's. Missouri's on the right.
View attachment 1051368
Click to expand...
From an earlier post of the OPs interest of Lee's 452-200-RF mold.

This bullet from the Lee mold has shot well for me. My barrel slugged at .450", so I resize to .451". The gun, and only one I have shot these cast out of, is a Ruger P345. I say it shoots well, as long as I don't load more than 6 in a 8-rd. magazine. Otherwise, I get feeding issues. But I contribute that to the more blunt (meplat) nose of the bullet. I have had no problems with Missouri's bullet.
 
A tip for bullet seating stems... Any bullet profile that has a flat spot on it ... round-flat , semi-wadcutter or truncated cone can be seated with a Flat Seating Stem ... take a round nose stem and fill the nose cavity with J-B Weld , let harden , sand dead flat and Wah-Lah ... Flat Seating stem that will seat all of the above .
To the beginner a nice Lyman M-Die expander is made to expand the case wider for the larger softer cast lead bullets ... such an expander makes your bullet seating life happy-happy .. get one and use it .
Experience has taught me , with a cast bullet crooked in = crooked seating and shaved lead ... they do not straighten themselves out ... start the cast bullet in the expanded case straight !
Gary
 
Blue68f100 said:
Normally feeding issues related to SWC can be corrected with the right magazine. Magazines designed for SWC have a different lips.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on the magazine being a lot of feeding issues. I only tried a couple different magazines out of the 6 or 8 on hand.
With the Lee 452-200-RF, sized to .451", I had to set the OAL to 1.100" to pass the plunk test. The P345 chamber is a bit on the tighter side. But is has shot several other bullet varieties with no issues.
I haven't tried to shoot the cast in the Kimber yet.
 
Blue68f100 said:
Normally feeding issues related to SWC can be corrected with the right magazine. Magazines designed for SWC have a different lips.
Click to expand...
I ask because I've seen a really good Para ordinance mag fail to feed and a stock kimber mag feed, how can one identify good mags for cast. My only plan was to try them until one worked and that's juvenile. Is it a brand or a style that I can see.
 
Maybe just "lucky", but I haven't experienced any difference feeding cast vs jacketed (200 SWC, 225 RN, 230 RN, 230 TC, 200 TC same as mentioned above. Hornady 230 XTP and good old 230 FMJ). I only have 3, 45 ACP guns an RIA 1911, a Ruger P90, which doesn't like SWCs, and a HP 4595). I have 7 extra magazines stock and after market, no magazine related problems. If your 1911 won't feed that bullet there is something definitely wrong...

I don't like the brown noses from tumble lubing so I dip lube (dip a bullet into alox or 45-45-10 and set upright on aluminum foil.). I often thin alox with mineral spirits, or warm to thin and don't use much (a light tan coating) and I don't get sticky bullets when they dry.
 
A lot of variables go into wether or not a magazine will feed a specific cast bullet set at a specific OAL ...
It isn't just the make of magazine . Name brand magazines stand a better chance and the brand I always turn to first ... now that I know ... is Mec-Gar , if they wont feed the bullet it's time to change something else!
Gary
 
TEXASJD said:
New to making my own cast got a lee .452 mold 200g RF. I will probably use hp-38, I have Lee ALOX lube and can powder coat. (gun is 1911) I will be loading on a 650 Dillion press.

Any tips ?

My questions?

Do I have to run bullets through a sizing die if I powder coat?

Does Alox dry completely?
Click to expand...

The 45 ACP is easy to load cast in, I don't even bother slugging the bores. Just cast, size to .452", load and shoot. Cast SWC's such as the Lyman 452460 usually give the best accuracy.

Alox does dry but most people have a tendency to use WAY too much, which leads to long drying times.

Can't help you with PC-ing, too time consuming for me.

35W
 
Many different approaches can produce acceptable results.. I've had reasonably good results with an RCBS 45-201 sized to .451" in a Lube-A-Matic with standard Lyman ALOX stick lube. Sizing to .451" (versus .452") reduced case bulge, and a stepped Lyman M die greatly improved bullet seating. Hope you enjoy casting and loading your own!
 
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