casting 30 caliber 150gr rifle bullets

[horseman1]

Hey folks.

I've been casting bullets for my handguns (45 auto, 45 colt and 40 S&W) for a while using nothing but my range scrap, but this is my first time casting a rifle bullet for 30-30 Winchester or maybe 30-06 or 308 or even 303 British.

To make a harder alloy, what I did was melt 2lbs of scrap from my range (mostly fmj, lead or copper plated pistol bullets), added 1/2 lb of Rotometals Superhard alloy and around 3.2 to 3,5 ounces of pewter. According to a spreadsheet and my math, it should be around 16 bhn or a little harder. I plan on putting on a gas check and powder coating these. I plan on using published load data for the 150gr flat nosed cast bullet in question. Wondering if any of the experts here see any issues with my plan. The first test would be in my 30-30. If you have anything at all to add, it would be appreciated.

It has been a while since I started a thread, so I hope I clicked the right buttons!

Thanks and Regards,
Kurt

 

[adcoch1]

I'd start with the 30-30, and I'd cast a few with the pewter and range scrap. Test for hardness. Then add super hard to get where you want. I bet you won't need the super hard alloy to get a great gas checked and PC bullet at 30-30 velocity. My experience with PC is that it acts like a couple points of BHN. Gas checked, I'd run a 12 BHN pc'd bullet up to 308 velocity with confidence if it was sized to the bore correctly. I would be targeting a bullet that still expands with this though, I try and make my bullets for both hunting and targets.

 

[horseman1]

Expansion... I did not think of that. Great!

 

[Charlie98]

with confidence if it was sized to the bore correctly.

Any cast bullet needs to be sized correctly. In the .30-30, I've found that to be .310"

 

[horseman1]

Thanks Charlie, I think they come out of the mold as .310 (with range scrap). Might get smaller with tin/pewter though. Will have to check.

 

[adcoch1]

If you need to size them, do it after PC, unless the PC becomes necessary to get them bigger than your sizer leaves them. PC bullets with gas checks are pretty hardy and easy to work with.

 

[Slamfire]

Check to see how much bullet jump there is to the lands. My New Haven Marlin 336 would not shoot my cast bullets. When I finally measured the distance bullets had to jump to touch lands, it was a ridiculous half an inch.

This is an example of how low sample size fools you. I was shooting ten shot groups, which of course, is three times the number of rounds on paper compared to the current Gold Standard of three shot groups. As a measure of consistency and accuracy, the three shot group size is great at making advertisers and narcissists look good.

Best ten shot group




add a little velocity and the group gets blown






so the only logical thing to do, is go back to the first load. Right?

It took a while to group again, but the 1400 fps load began to show instability as the shot count went up.



The thing is, with a half inch jump, this barrel will never shoot lead bullets worth a flip. I suspect some bullets are entering the lands bent. It is my opinion that cast bullets will not be accurate if shot in a loose barrel or a chamber with a long throat.

Having tried cast bullets, it takes a lot of work to find the combination that works well in your rifle. I came to the conclusion that the best overall cast bullet powder was AA5744. I am not a fan of reduced charges of rifle powders, or using pistol powders in rifle cases.

 

[243winxb]

The Lyman #311291 & IMR 4895* works well in 30-30, 30-06. The 30-30 can be loaded to almost full pressures. The 06 needs reduced powder charge.

Bullet diameter is .309" or .310" & needs a Lyman "M" die to open the case mouth for bullet seating. No crimp on mine, Win M94 30WCF. Marlin micro Groove rifling may be harder to get great accuracy?

Barrel condition is everything. My 1903 Springfield didnt like cast till a new GI barrel was installed. The rough barrel on 30WCF fouled & accuracy fell off, after a while.
The Thompos Center Contender 30-30 loved the cast bullets .

 

[jmorris]

I would probably weigh the bullets after they drop. I have a mold I use as a “standard” and by altering alloy I can make the 230grain mold drop bullets as heavy as 240 gn with pure lead down to 211 grains with silver solder and those are hard.

 

[AJC1]

Thanks Charlie, I think they come out of the mold as .310 (with range scrap). Might get smaller with tin/pewter though. Will have to check.

Charlie is exactly right in my experience. 310 is perfect. If your plan is to powdercoat, then you will require sizing post coat. Noe makes the only non lube tool .310 that I'm aware of unless your plan is to try and lap the .309 Lee up to .310. I also agree that a bhn in the 12 range will be perfect unless your trying to drive them up to full jacketed velosity then 13-14 will probably work better. I also have better luck installing the gas check before coating, as some molds and alloys already fit tight and pc will make them not fit or be a pita. I play with the 170 because it gives more energy at slower or the same velosity and that works better in steel Silhouette.

 

[lightman]

It sounds like you have a solid plan. You can always "check and adjust" as you go.

 

[horseman1]

So much good input here. Thanks!

 

[PapaG]

My pre-64 M70 30-06 is MOA with, take your time, 311291 cast of virgin linotype in single cavity mould, gas checked, sized .308, and heat treated. Lubed with NRA alox/beeswax formula. Age at least seventeen days. LC match brass, sorted by weight, FL size, trim to length, neck reamed, neck sized. Bullets weighted and sorted by .2 grain weight. Powder, IMR 4198, 24.0 grains. Tuft of Kapok on powder. Seat to touch lands.

 

[horseman1]

As slow as I am PapaG, 17 days will be no problem Like the other recommendations as well. <edit> Oh, and I have 4198...

 

[GooseGestapo]

Most of my groups with the .30/30 are somewhat better than I’ve seen here.

I use older wheel/weights mixed with 95/5% leadfree solder (95% Tin, 5% Antimony) and air cooled. I size to .311” for all my .30’s. I use SPG or NRA 50/50 (Alox / beeswax) and Hornady crimp on gas checks assembled with a Lyman 450 lubrisizer. Lyman M-die to flare case necks, Lee collet Factory Crimp die to crimp separate from seating.
I’m not real impressed with Powder Coat… Works good on blasting grade pistol bullets.
For plinking bullets, the Lee 150gr FN tumble lubed and unsized over 7-10gr of Reddot,Greendot, or Unique makes a great can buster load.

This is the only rifle cast bullet group photo I have.
3-shots from my “Remlin” Marlin 1895 .45/70. Bullet is a Lee 400gr FN from a 2-cavity mold. Straight w/w. SPG lube, .460” size over 20.0gr #2400. Range is 50yds.
That’s three in 1-hole at the center of the bull. I was sighting in the gun after swapping scopes. Taped holes were previously fired sighters.