Casting with Wheel Weights Questions

[Lovesbeer99]

I'm new to casting and just cast a few rounds for my 38spl as a test run. I load 158 gr SWC (I've been buying them up till now) at a velocity of about 750 fps or slower. Just some target Rounds.

Can I just use wheel weights or do I need to add the tin and harden it to #2 allow? I have the same question with my 30-30 that I load to very low velocities. Maybe I can just use a gas check? I load my 30-30 with 7 -8 grains of Unique wich basically makes this a 357 magnum at about 1400 fps.

Also, how many of you use a BRN hardness tester? Is this really a good tool, of just a nice to have?

Thanks in advance and shoot safe.

 

[Dean Williams]

Wheel weights are perfect for your 38 target loads. You don't want them too hard anyway. If you get any leading, it won't be due to the alloy, but because of improper bullet size.

If you're using a gas check bullet for your 30-30, then you can put a check on it. Wheel weights may work okay with it too. It needs to be sized to your barrel if you are going to prevent leading, whether you use a gas check or not.
#2 alloy is harder than ww's, and you might need it for your rifle, but try the ww's first.

I don't use a Brinell tester.

 

[243winxb]

Cast Bullets

Can I just use wheel weights or do I need to add the tin and harden it to #2 allow?

A little tin is good, keeps the alloy from leading the barrel. You dont need it as hard as #2 Lyman alloy for low velocity. Your bullet diameters are more important. For the 38spec/357mag. you want a bullet dia of .357"to 358" For the 30-30 win the bullet should run .310" to .311" You will need to buy a Lyman "M" die for the 30-30 to flare the case mouth so you don't shave lead when seating the bullets. If the bullet is designed for a gas check, use one. I do not use a a BRN hardness tester. Just my thumb nail. Photos of some bullets i have cast. Click for larger size.

[/URL][/IMG] http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/faqs/bullet-casting.php

 

[RustyFN]

Tin will not harden the bullets it will help the lead flow and fill out the mold easier. If you add tin you don't need to add more than 2%, any more than that is a waste. I have been casting straight WW's for my 45 and they have been testing with a BHN of 14.
Rusty

 

[USSR]

Tin will not harden the bullets it will help the lead flow and fill out the mold easier. If you add tin you don't need to add more than 2%, any more than that is a waste.

+1.

Don

 

[243winxb]

Tin Will Harden the Alloy

The Brinell Hardness of Antimony 294MPa, Lead 38.3MPa, Tin 51MPa. The largest component of metal in the bullet casting alloy is Lead. Since tin is harder than Lead, over all the alloy would become harder when Tin is added by a tiny amount. But the main reason Tin needs to be in the mix is

While antimony is used to harden the bullet, the mixture of tin is critical, for while antimony mixes with lead in its molten state, it will not remain mixed when it solidifies. If tin were not added, we would have pure antimony crystals surrounded by pure lead. A bullet of this type , while it feels hard , would certainly lead the bore and eliminate all potential for accuracy. In a lead-tin-antimony mixture, the antimony crystals will be present just the same, but they will be imbedded in a lead-tin mixutre. As the bullet cools the tin will form around the antimony-lead keeping your bullets from leading the bore.

 

[243winxb]

Bullet Sizes & Weights – How to Vary Them

The bullet diameters and weights presented in this list
are based on the use of Taracorp’s Lawrence Magnum
bullet alloy (2% tin, 6% antimony, 1/4% arsenic,
91.75% lead).
Bullet diameters and weights will vary considerably
depending on the lead casting alloy used. This variation
can be as much as 1/2% on the diameter, and 8% on
the weight among the most commonly used casting
alloys. For example, a .358-158 grain bullet might
show a diameter variation of .002", and a 13 grain difference
in weight.
Of the most commonly used alloys, wheel weights (.5%
tin, 4% antimony, 95% lead) will produce bullets having
the smallest diameter and heaviest weight, with
such bullets running approximately .3% smaller in
diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with
Taracorp's metal. Linotype will produce bullets with the
largest diameter and lightest weights. This alloy will
produce bullets approximately 1/10% larger and 3%
lighter than Taracorp. Other alloys of tin and antimony,
with antimony content above 5%, will produce bullets
with diameters and weights falling between those cast
from wheel weights and linotype.
Alloys containing little or no antimony will cast considerably
smaller than wheel weights and in some cases
will produce bullets too small for adequate sizing.
Within the limitations given above, the weight and
diameter of a cast bullet can be adjusted by varying the
alloy’s antimony content.
The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will also
vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures
will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet
cools, thereby producing a slightly smaller and lighter
bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature http://www.redding-reloading.com/PDF...ulletchart.pdf

The above information is from a good website The 22LR bullet alloy would seem to be made with 2% to 3% antimony content from internet searchs,plus the coating/lubes help along with the correct bullet diameters. What does 22LR bullets have to do with casting? Nothing at all. Zip. So, you want to cast using pure lead or almost pure. Good luck with that. An alloy is used so you can get the correct diameter for the bullet as it drops from the mould, if for no other reason. The moulds are regulated to work with a certain type of alloy. Try using some lyman, Saeco, RCBS moulds using pure lead, see what the diameter as cast is. It will NOT produce good bullets of the correct size. Pure lead is for black powder bullet moulds and the Lee Key drive slug mold and others. Do your own testing, what is said on the below posts just may NOT be true.

 

[liljohn]

Water dropped wheelweights are all you need

Use straight wheel weights and water quench the bullets.

Let the bullets drop into a bucket of water straight from the mould. They'll harden up quite a bit from this alone; as hard as many alloys. They'll also harden over time so they'll be even harder in 2 years.

I've gotten 20 to 22 BHN with water quenching (air cooled is about half this). I've pushed these bullets at magnum velocities without leading. As someone mentioned above, leading has more to do with bullet fit than lead hardness.

 

[jcwit]

I cast with 2 ingots of range lead and 1 ingot of wheel weights, lube is my own mix of bees wax, paraffine, and car wax, sizing is usually 1 thou. over bore dia. I get no leading with 45 ACP, 30 cal carbine, or 38 spec/357 mag loades. I do have problems with 9mm, but just live with it. I've no idea what my hardness is as I've never had good luck with my Saeco tester, but the above mix works for me.

 

[sqlbullet]

At 750 fps, you could shoot pure lead without leading if you have the proper size, proper lube and proper pressure peak in your load.

Tin is only needed to fill out the mold. It's presence creates a eutectic and reduces the surface tension of the lead. While it does contribute to harness, given the relative costs and hardness benefits of tin, it is a costly way to harden an alloy. Antimony (wheel weights are a great source) and trace arsenic or copper (as grain refiners) are far cheaper and produce a harder alloy.

If you have wheel weights, use them. However, proper size, lube and pressure peak must be kept in mind or you will get leading with any alloy. As the alloy becomes harder, a higher pressure peak is needed to properly obturate the bullet, to seal the bore. This does not always mean more velocity, just a faster powder for the same velocity.

For instance, in my 10mm, I use AA#9 or Blue Dot for max loads. But for practice, I use Unique. The faster powder keeps the pressure curve up while reducing velocity and recoil. This ensures the bullets still properly obturate to fill the bore.

 

[FredT]

The hardness tester is a nice to have item. I have one and misplaced it in a move. I would never tell some one that you just have to have one. I use the finger nail test, if your nail will scratch the lead, it is on the soft side, no scratch, it is harder, for what that is worth.

 

[RustyFN]

FYI

http://www.sixguns.com/crew/castbullet.htm

Historically, tin was used to harden bullet alloys because it was widely available, it was easily mixed with molten lead, and it improved the "castability" of the alloy considerably (tin lowers the surface tension of the molten alloy and allows it to fill out the mould more completely). However, in recent years tin has gotten to be rather expensive. In addition, it's really not all that effective at hardening lead alloys. Antimony hardens lead alloys much more effectively than does tin, and is cheaper to boot, so antimony is the primary hardening component used in lead alloys today. In addition, antimony allows the alloy to be hardened via heat treatment, something the chemistry of tin doesn't allow (and arsenic is even better for heat treating than is antimony). Antimony has limited solubility in molten lead, but tin enhances its solubility through the formation of an intermetallic SnSb compound, which is more soluble.

Hope this helps.
Rusty

 

[rcmodel]

For .38 Spl at 750 FPS, no hardening is necessary.
The softer the better in fact.

Too hard will promote leading at low velocity because the bullet is too hard to bump up to fit the cylinder throats and gas blow-by will gas cut or melt the sides of the bullet.

If you notice, factory loaded .38 Special lead bullets are very soft, almost pure lead.

There is a reason for that besides the economics of swaging soft lead bullets. If they needed to be harder to work properly, they would make them harder.

On a side note, .22 LR bullets are also soft swaged lead, and they handle near magnum handgun velocity (1,200 - 1,400 FPS) without leading just fine.

rc