CB entry level gun

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WestKentucky

WestKentucky

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Folks, I have run across a bit of disposable cash and plan to purchase a cap snd ball revolver. I have a few in mind, and am looking for pointers or suggestions. The gun itself doesn't necessarily have to be new, but I do want a quality weapon. I have considered a few and have narrowed my choice down to:

Used ROA checked out for function/lockup,

Pietta Rem
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=907

Pietta remmy pocket model
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=874

Or the NAA .22
http://northamericanarms.com/firearms/cb.html

I know that the Colts are distinctly absent, but I just cannot get interested in open top revolvers. Please offer up other suggestions. The NAA seems silly but is intriguing.
 
If you can afford the ROA, buy it. It will be the most trouble free of the bunch. Remmies and the open top Colt clones will all need some tweaking to be reliable. Not so the ROA, unless it has been abused. With the ROA you won't have to worry about cap jams, arbor fit, bolt/notch fit, etc. And you will probably be able to sell it for more than you paid for it.

No experience with the NAA. It does not appeal to me.
 
It (always) depends…….

Will this be for plinking, target shooting, or serious target shooting?

Of the four, the Pietta Remington offers the most versatility, unless you are willing to pay an average of $500 for the Ruger OA.

The Ruger Old Army, 7-1/2" barrel with a full charge and a .457 RB or a 22 grain conical ball can deliver the velocity and energy of a .45 (Long) Colt.

if I wanted a C & B to do everything, plus getting ALL my money back when I'm ready to sell it, save your money and buy a Ruger Old Army.

The NAA .22 caliber is, by the nature of its size, harder to load & hold, and designed for plinking/novelty shooting.

The Remington Pocket model is about in the same boat as the NAA. With smaller springs than the New Model Army, it may be harder to cock and pull trigger, and of, course used at close range.

So, it just depends.

For $225-$265, the Pietta is a great entry level/beginning choice C & B revolver.
 
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ROA

I see everyone's point on the ROA, which is one of the big reasons I am drawn to it. Resale is not so much of a concern, as I don't plan to get rid of it. I don't plan on using the gun for anything other than as a range gun, and it would be one with which I am not overly concerned with accuracy, so the NAA and rem pocket are still on the list as potentials, I can not figure out why the NAA seems so interesting unless it's appealing toy cheapskate side since it would use shot and basically no powder, so your big expense in shooting it is in caps. I will look for a deal on a ROA, but I will also keep an eye out for a remmy.
 
I Was In The Same ...

...situation as you 4 months ago (Christmas gift cards!). First C&B revolver wants!

I have always liked the lines of the 1851 Navy .36, Cabela's had a sale on the Pietta 1851 Navy steel .36, and I took the plunge before reading a LOT of informed posts on this and many other BP forums.

In hindsight, I would have purchased a .44 cal revolver (if only for the reason to later acquire a .45 Colt cartridge conversion cylinder: the bore of a ".36" Navy is .375 and not conducive to accuracy using .355/.357 bullets). I like the grip shape of the Colt, not so much the Remmy. I like the solid frame of the Remmy and not so much the Colt (for conversion cylinder use).

If I decided to purchase another C&B revolver, at this time it would be a Uberti 2nd Model Dragoon [rectangular stop slots and squareback trigger guard (just for aesthetics)] with the later possibility of modifying it to accept a Walker .44 cylinder. I would also purchase a spare Dragoon .44 barrel and get a .45 Colt cartridge conversion cylinder.

My Pietta 1851 Navy steel has had a problem with bolt/cylinder timing, only evident after dry-firing it over 300 times and seeing it have the cylinder slots peen over about .002". I have corrected the bolt thickness and no longer have that problem.

Uberti Colts are known for short arbors, not so the Piettas. The Piettas are nice, but not as nice as the Ubertis. Uberti offers more selection with revolvers, IMO.

Get a $5 copy of the Dixie Gun Works catalog (free shipping by USPS: about a week out). Fantastic reading and well worth the fiver.

I guess my suggestion is that you read everything on as many BP forums you can find about every Colt/Remmy/variations that you can find. Then sit back and think about what you really want.

Just my $.02.

Jim
 
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Ruger. However, there is something to be said about a gun that needs fixing: You learn how to work on your own. My class had to build Trappers not because they wanted us to build a single shot black powder pistol but for all the lessons we had to learn while building it. Mind you, if one isn't mechanically inclined, forget building or fixing your own. Just get one that works each and every time.
 
Just a voice from left field, deep left field, my Rogers and Spencer shoots rings around everything else I own. Including three different ROA's , an 1860, a 36 caliber Navy, by Navy Arms, a Walker, an 1862 Police and several others. Like the ROA its out of production, unlike the ROA parts are available at a reasonable price. The gun is still reasonable priced and can be found on occasion at different web sites.

Just another approach to a c&b that is a top shooter.
 
One More thing

If you are interested in the so-called 1858 New Model Army replicas, the cylinders can be changed out post haste compared to the Colt pistols.

I like Clint Eastwood movies. The Outlaw Josey Wales will be recorded tomorrow afternoon courtesy of DVR. Dragoons are the order of battle.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089767/

The original Remmys in 1858 were the Remington-Beals revolvers. Many changes resulted in the Remington New Model revolver which was not produced until 1863.

The Remmys are good, well thought out guns, and were many years ahead of the Colts, even the 1860/1861/1862 models that preceded Sam Colt's death in 1862. To wit, the Colt company finally imitated Remington with a solid top frame with the 1873 Colt SA "Peacemaker" (in the vernacular).

Then Remington, in 1875, decided to produce a metallic cartridge pistol to compete with the Colt, but it was never as popular.
 
pietta rem 1858 almost the best gun ive ever owned sure it may never have been as pretty as some others but ive shot the bazzogie out of that thing and it keeps going.
 
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The Remington New Model Army made by Pietta is affordable and thanks to modern CNC machinery extremely well made for it's price.

The overall design is geared towards durability and the softer steel is not a problem because of the support of the top strap and the fact that it uses black powder.

The Pietta 1858 (New Model Army) frame is also slighty oversized which should make it even more durable.
 
robhof

I have 2 ROA's, a pocket Remy, and a NAA 22, among others, which are all open tops. The NAA is a toy, useless for any distance past 10', the pocket Remy is ok; shoots better than the NAA, the ROA's get frequent workouts, the only competitor is my 1860 Colt clone in 36cal, less powder and lead and just as accurate. All my guns were bought used, but in excellent condition, if you know what to look for, it's the best way to go, just be sure the original owner took care of the gun. If you are determined to go with the NAA, go with the EARL and at least a 4" barrel. The magnum chamber and use triple7 powder, real B/p isn't hot enough to get much power out of the 22, also you're stuck with NAA made bullets; no aftermarkets or subs available, I've looked.
 
The little Remington is really not for beginners. They shoot way too high, necessitating a new and taller front sight and if you don't use enough of the right kind of powder, should a ball hit the metal target post, it'll come back at you!

Pick the Remington or Ruger. If you have large hands, consider the one with the brass dragoon grips. Then there's also the Old Army Vaquero with traditional sights and those command about double or more in price right now.
 
The Colt 1851 Navy (.36) is and was the best shooting c&b gun ever.
My Uberti London only needed minor internal polishing and shimming out the arbor hole. (easy to do check posts on these forms).
Any of these Italian guns are better with some tuning.
 
You could also look at the Uberti Remington, forged frame and a dovetailed front site. In my opinion the Remington and the Rogers & Spencer are as good as a Ruger but with an added plus they can be used in all black powder competitions.

But I agree with Dave, the '51 Colt in navy caliber is the most natural pointing handgun ever built. But you didn't give that option so I excluded it from my answer. :)
 
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First cap and ball?

The Pietta 58 Remmy... No question, hands down the best overall first BP revolver.

First, its cheap... My very first (I now have 3) was a brand new, in the box, 2013 short barrel that I got for $200 even... Keep in mind that you are not 100% sure about BP revolvers and cant be until you try it out, so how much do you really want to spend on a weapon that could just end up setting on a shelf? Second it is far more advanced and much closer to a modern then any colt, and not just because of the top strap... making the transition from center fire sidearms much easier. And third, if you get a recent manufactured one its pretty much trouble free... I am getting closer and closer to the point where I am ready to tackle the colts and the related issues that come along with them, but in all honesty I cant say with any certainty that I would be here in the BP world if I had had to deal with those issues right out of the gate... I imagine the same would be true of the issues with the little pocket models.
 
A minority opinion - Where what When How Why? If I was going to get a BP revolver for personal protection and plinking in an urban or suburban environ it would be the .31 Colt or Reny copy or original depending on cash.

For all around use, as in you don't have strong feelings as to whether you will target shoot, plink, hang it on the wall, hunt, keep it on the night stand ( In a good holster I pray ), I would go with the Remmy or ROA.

Is it for beauty, elegance, grace, and having a cool replica? Can't go wrong with a Colt Belt Pistol repro of some sort, '51 ;60 '61 iir even the five shot '63.

I would keep my Pietta Remy if I could only have one. If I could afford it a ROA would be 'that gun'.

I frequently wear a '51 around camp when "I don't need a gun", it will be a sidearm to a rifle where legal when hunting.
My 1860 repro is elegant and lively in the hand. It's beautiful and I can see toting it with a lighter thann max charge as I would a .38 in the woods for all around utility.
The 1858 with a full charge and a round ball remained popular long after fixed cartridges for a reason. That ball at 1200 fps or so does damage in flesh that belies the numbers on paper. The conical penetrates like nobody's business.
For full charge and hunting or if it comes down to it holding one's own the rapid cylinder change cannot be discounted, or the added strength of the topstrap.

If there is no pressing NEED for a weapon, get the one that speaks to your heart.
 
Ha!! No offense perldog007 but personal protection for me equals .45 Colt (I like my wife's husband too much to rely on a .31 of any kind )!! All of my personal handguns are chambered for .45 Colt. (Remies, Dragoons and an El Patron Comp. in .45 Colt/ .45 acp). If I were restricted to BP only, it would be any of the big bores mentioned .

OP, for the most part, I agree with most here for a first c&b revolver. My first was a brass .44 Remie. ('76). A couple of yrs later, saw my first open top and loved um ever since. Keep in mind, they all need fixing to some degree. All can be made into amazing machines. You can see some pics on my site.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
 
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I'm in the same boat. CB guns can be very reliable, but I know with absolute certainty what my modern guns do with optimal handloads...on paper and on deer. Sure it's not exactly the same but if my loads shred a deers chest it will likely perform similarly on 2 legged targets should that need ever arise. The CB gun will be purely for enjoyment at the range. If I decide to hunt with a muzzle loading handgun I will have to figure out another gun to buy...a very convenient problem to have.
 
If you can find a Ruger at a reasonable cost I'd say get it. And make sure you ALWAYS ensure the cylinder pin lock is turned or else you'll bend it upon loading as I did on my first day out. It's something you'll always remember afterwards as there are no replacements (I hear someone is making aftermarket parts now).

After a Ruger I'd vote for a Remington. The price is great for a Pietta on a Cabelas sale, but I wanted an Uberti and may yet still get one or two. I had to modify a few parts on my Pietta including the loading window to accommodate my bullets.
 
If you can try to handle a few different ones. The Remmie's are great but I don't like how they feel. The NAA is a very well made toy loads of fun but the tiny grips get to you if you shoot much in one day. I like the 1851/61 style colt grips and also the colt pockets especially in 36 (same grip as the 31 but bigger balls)

What it comes down to is what feels good in your hands. Yes ROA's keep their value but even if you beat the crap out of a Pietta and sell it at a loss they cost so little you would probably be out less than $50 and would probably get more than $50 of fun from it first

Bottom line what's best for me might suck for you. The bigge guns especially he Dragoons have bigger grips a longer site picture but at the same time they have bigge grips and are heavier

For a compromise I like the 1851 the best plus Volt made almost 300,000 of them and who even knows how many the Italians made so there must be half a million or more produced. Numbers like that speak to the quality of the basic design
 
Remington? Sure. You can look at it and admire the engineering that produced the upper strap. You can utilize the strength and beat some one in the head or you can buy a Colt and have a fine shooting comfortable revolver. I tried 44 New Army Remingtons and 36 cal Navy Remingtons and got rid of all of them. I now shoot only 1860-61 Colts and all of them are Piettas by the way.
 
But I agree with Dave, the '51 Colt in navy caliber is the most natural pointing handgun ever built. But you didn't give that option so I excluded it from my answer.
Click to expand...

My Pietta 1851 Navy steel .36 is indeed what you have stated, except...

I want to fit the longer 1860 Army grips to it as I have wide skinny hands with long fingers (think skeleton). To do this it will entail ordering a 1860 triggerguard, mainspring, mainspring screw, and a backstrap. Looking at all of the parts supply places (DGW, Taylor's, VTI, et al): it probably would be nearly half the cost of a Pietta 1860 Army on sale at Cabela's. I might just acquire another pistol or so and part it out. For further consideration.

Folks do it on EBay all the time with little knowledge of what they are selling.

Been there, done that as a buyer.

Your call...

If it was possible, I would like to have Colt style Dragoon parts to fit the 1851 but that is not a reality insofar as I know considering the dimensional differences.

I would still like a Colt Dragoon 2nd model with a Walker cylinder, just to obviate the bad load lever retention of the Walker and to enjoy the smaller frame of the Dragoon. Yes, I like squareback trigger guards.

One of these days, I will have one.
 
I'm a Colt open top afficionado - especially the 1851/1861 variety. Remingtons and Rogers & Spencers do not fit my hands and are awkward to shoot. With that said, if the ROA is reasonably priced & fully functional with no signs of wear - GET IT !
 
I've got pairs of both Colt open tops and Remington '58's. I wanted the variety.

The open top Colt clones are most likely to need some slight mods to get the proper fit of the arbor to barrel so the wedge works correctly. For some odd reason Italians simply can't seem to get this one detail correct. I blame it all on a poor or mixed sample originally sent to them for measuring when the whole clone industry started out.... :D I've had a variety of open tops before settling on the pair I've currently got along with an 1851 as a backup. They are all older used guns with Euroarms, Navy Arms and Uberti names sharing the list. They all needed the mods to fit together correctly despite being from various eras of clonedom.

Then on this other side of the table I've got my pair of Uberti 1858 New Army models that came to me with sequential serial numbers. They were used but only lightly so. I've been using them on a semi regular basis for about 7 years of cowboy action shooting and they are holding up just fine. The guns lock up well, needed NO modifications at all other than one (I'll get to that in a second) and simply work superbly well. Fit and finish inside and out is lovely and suggests a price level that should be comfortably above what they do cost.

The only mod I needed to do to one of the Remingtons was to slightly increase the sear to hammer hook engagement. It was getting to where the gun was almost shooting when my finger had not even touched the trigger. It was literally something to be measured in a low ounces sort of range. The other is sensitive too. But nothing like the one was. I suspect the previous owner had them slicked up and the smith likely got a little crazy with the one gun. A little stoning of the hooks with a suitable super fin stone and the trigger pull now needs around 1.5'ish lbs. Still pretty sensitive but far more usable.

So if you simply want guns to load up and shoot repeatedly without any risks of needing anything other than lead, powder and caps I'd suggest Uberti Remingtons.

The NAA is also a great little gun. But it's more of a novelty than a serious smoke maker. Get one later to fill in that itch for the range toy it most certainly is. Or if you get a Remington then you might end up with your gun adopting one of the NAA waifs like my pair did.... :D

Family.jpg
 
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