ccw Florida question

[cubanpimp]

"any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose"

what does that really mean? I can still pack in a restaurant that sells alcohol, but not stand by the bar???

 

[CZ-100]

Yes... you are Correct.

Example: You go tto Outback Steakhouse, you can go in and eat dinner but you can not go into their bar area and either sit at the bar or the tabled around the bar.

 

[Jeff Timm]

Yes, BUT, some places get a little vague about the location of the Bar area. Like the local TGI Fridays, if I go right at the entrance I'm safe, but if I go left I'm BUSTED! Not a good position to be in, especially if the toilets are on the other side of the bar area. One of the local 24 hr Denny's has a "pub" in a separate room, that's fairly safe.

Geoff
Who is very, very paranoid when it comes to Lawyers.

 

[cubanpimp]

thank you guys, that made sence to me....so if I go bowling and there is a bar by the pool tables, as long as I stay away from the bar I can play pool? and the same would go for a gas station that seels beer I can still go in and just stay away from the beer????. these are all too comfusing!

 

[Falconeer]

thank you guys, that made sence to me....so if I go bowling and there is a bar by the pool tables, as long as I stay away from the bar I can play pool? and the same would go for a gas station that seels beer I can still go in and just stay away from the beer????. these are all too comfusing!

The gas station shouldn't be an issue; I'm assuming a gas station is selling, not serving. Don't drink it and keep it in the trunk and you should be fine. In my opinion anyone who drinks and carries needs to sell the handgun and slam their head in a car door a few times to stimulate brain activity.

The bowling alley with bar is a bit stickier. If the tables could be considered part of the 'bar', then technically you'd be illegal. If you CCW in Florida, you should own a copy of Florida Firearms Law: Law, Use and Ownership. It's written by a Florida attorney who specializes in firearms law and is very readable. Trust me, it's not at all out of the ordinary to find LEOs who are just as mistaken about CCW laws as civilians. There's a LOT to know.

 

[joab]

what does that really mean? I can still pack in a restaurant that sells alcohol, but not stand by the bar???

Correct with a minor adjustment.
You cannot even walk through the bar area, if going to the restroom requires you to pass through the bar you are technically in violation.

No you cannot play pool at the bowling alley, it's part of the liquor serving part of the establishment (if the lay out is the same as the alleys I used to go to).
Generally if it is part of the area that the bartender or barmaids are responsible for keeping clean it's part of the bar

 

[AirForceShooter]

it's CONCEALED!!!!
Who knows!!

AFS

 

[Falconeer]

it's CONCEALED!!!!
Who knows!!

AFS

Perhaps the undercover officer who's having dinner and sees it printed when you happen to bend over to tie your shoe/pick up your napkin/etc?

 

[AirForceShooter]

if my experience meeting LEO's here is any indication , you'll be thanked for carrying.

AFS

 

[Falconeer]

if my experience meeting LEO's here is any indication , you'll be thanked for carrying.

AFS

Well, the simple fact of the matter is carrying in a bar in the state of Florida is against the law. It's not whether you can get away with it or not. It's my belief that as CCW holders we have a responsibility to hold ourselves to a higher standard. Where do we draw the line if we start 'bending' the law?

 

[45Broomhandle]

FOOD FOR THOUGHT...

In one of Daytona Beach's larger gun shops a few years back, I proudly mentioned to a clerk that I, my wife, and our daughter, had all just completed the safety course required to obtain our Concealed Weapon Or Firearms Licenses.

Evidently not anxious to make a sale, the klutz proceeds to lecture me on how useless the license is and why he'd NEVER apply for one, but just take his chances. He began listing all the places one CANNOT carry - such as this bar issue - and ended his diatribe by asking, "If you can't carry in all these places, why bother getting one?" I don't know why he wasted so much time outlining all this to me. He could have saved his breath and just said, "Man! Are you folks ever stupid!" Needless to say, I've never been back there.

Also, about every gun shop in this area has a notice on the door that if you're not a LEO you'd better not carry on THEIR premises, licensed or not. What great welcoming tactics these shops maintain! I don't buy from any of them unless absolutely necessary.

ADDITIONAL INFO. I just clicked on the book title mentioned above and got nowhere. Then went to www.amazon.com, entered the title and found used copies $10 plus $3 for shipping.

 

[cubanpimp]

i DON'T CARRY BY BARS, i THINK i'LL TRY TO KEEP MY CCW, I have met many cops and aver 75% of them look down on people with CCWs, they think only cops should be armed, and ask ???? like, why do you need it? if one day I see a cop who i know is anti ccw getting stabbed I will call 911 and tell the guy to stop, but will not help, when the news anchor asks me why I did nothing, I will say, he specifically told me there was no reason to carry, so I followed his wishes of not letting a civilian get involved....sorry for the rant, there are good leos outthere.

 

[jamez]

I'm from Texas and will be traveling to Florida for a family vacation soon. I understand the laws in Flordia are very similar to Texas in CCW but this has me questioning the 'bar' issue. If it's anything like Texas there should be a sign indicating that 51% or greater of their income is from the sale of alcohol consumed on site. The letters on the sign are to be black and be a particular size and a screened back red 51% on the background to indicate clearly to CCW patrons that carry is prohibited. It should also be a 'given' that a bar is an off-limits place for CCW. Here in Texas I can drive/walk to the store, or ride a horse even , with my companion and buy beer. The whole idea is to keep the handgun and alcohol consumption away from each other, which should be common sense. I'm still waiting on the 'hard liquor and handgun night' at Ranger's stadium.

 

[AirForceShooter]

I carry with a CCW so I'm supposed to live up to a highter standard??

Nope, not me.

I live by the same rules everyone else does.

AFS

 

[Rockstar]

Preferring to assume that the threadstarter was looking for legitimate information and not trying to "bend the laws," I'd have to say that it'd take a real lowlife prick of an l.e.o. to bust somebody who's seated properly in a restaurant, when that person walked near the restaurant's bar on the way to the bathroom. I don't believe you'd find an arrest happening for such behavior in FL.

It's pretty clear what the legislative intent was when the FL "carry" laws were drafted permitting concealed carry in restaurants that happened to also have a bar.

 

[joab]

If it's anything like Texas there should be a sign indicating that 51% or greater of their income is from the sale of alcohol consumed on site. The letters on the sign are to be black and be a particular size and a screened back red 51% on the background to indicate clearly to CCW patrons that carry is prohibited

No such signs here. The rule is explained in the pamphlet covering the laws that came with your application you are expected to be knowledgeable of the laws that apply.

It does not necessarily take a prick to enforce the law.
A new cop that doesn't understand street justice and naively thinks that he is supposed to actually uphold the laws of the state would be all that it takes.

 

[Jeff Timm]

.45 Broomhandle opinied, "Also, about every gun shop in this area has a notice on the door that if you're not a LEO you'd better not carry on THEIR premises, licensed or not. What great welcoming tactics these shops maintain! I don't buy from any of them unless absolutely necessary."

It's been my experience that gunshops and ranges have armed personnel, the requirement for customers not to carry seems reasonable especially when target ID is considered. Hit the deck and let them handle it.

Geoff
Who noticed the young lady was carrying a nice revolver on her hip, I missed the lavolier holster with the NAA revolver around her neck, hanging, uhh well in a well endowed area. Some pistolero I am!

 

[jamez]

Again, I'm from Texas and an indoor range I frequent has a similar sign outside simply stating, 'please unload ALL guns outside prior to entering' which I spoke to the owner about. He stated the reason for the sign is for any guns that are to be used on the range. There is an inspection of the guns before they make it out on the range, which every place should do this for patron protection, and he doesn't want to be picking up a loaded weapon for inspection. If you come into his shop intending to buy something or with a CCW you don't intend to shoot, he has no problem with you carrying. But then again, I love this great state we live in, not to put Florida down. So many more people seem to be gun friendly even if they don't CCW.

 

[k_dawg]

There is no requirement for a place of business to post a 51% rule sign. In face, I have never seen it.

The real issue would be at resturants with bars, such as Applebe's etc. Where is the "magic line"? It is just the seats at the actual bar, or the tables around the bar? Do they even seperate the registers between the areas?

:banghead: :banghead:

 

[cubanpimp]

this is a touchy topic, I will ask police men in Miami and get some facts to post later.

 

[DunedinDragon]

this is a touchy topic, I will ask police men in Miami and get some facts to post later.

Unfortunately, asking a police officer won't do you much good other than finding out what THAT police officer's feeling about the matter are. The real person that matters is the District Attorney and how they interpret the laws...which as District Attorney's go..who KNOWS what they might be thinking...if they actually DO think.

 

[XDKingslayer]

Dunedin is correct, don't rely on LEO to know the laws, especially on CCW instances where their personal prefferance and the laws are usually two entirely different things. Get with your District/State Attorney and talk to a supervisor, which is usually a senior attorney.

Florida's laws are pretty simple once you understand them. And all of the ones that are mildly confusing such as carrying in a restaurant that also serves alcohol and carrying in your car without a CCW are the ones the cops usually screw up.

 

[joab]

don't rely on LEO to know the laws, especially on CCW instances where their personal prefferance and the laws are usually two entirely different things

I was just informed by my BIL, a sargent with a local sheriff's department that it is illegal to CCW in a family establishment, such as a WalMart or Albertsons or family restaurant..

His reasoning is that his department recently arrested a man for carrying in an Albertsons grocery store.
After a little prodding as to why the police were called he told me that the store manager had asked him to leave and he refused citing his CCW as legal permission to carry where ever he wanted.

Even police who pride themselves on knowing the law and truly do try to keep up on it sometimes get it wrong

 

[Mulliga]

His reasoning is that his department recently arrested a man for carrying in an Albertsons grocery store.
After a little prodding as to why the police were called he told me that the store manager had asked him to leave and he refused citing his CCW as legal permission to carry where ever he wanted.

Was it open carry? I don't see how a store manager could have spotted a gun otherwise.

If it was concealed, and the man printed or told people he had a gun, if you are asked to leave, you must leave or you're trespassing. But it's obviously not against the law to CCW in Wally World.

Your BIL needs to read FL law.

 

[Dave P]

"I was just informed by my BIL, a sargent with a local sheriff's department that it is illegal to CCW in a family establishment, such as a WalMart or Albertsons or family restaurant.."


I love it! I'm hope you straightened him right out?!