CCW Holder Wrestled to the Ground at Walmart

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The Florida Baker Act Definition

The Florida Mental Health Act of 1971 (Florida Statute 394.451-394.47891[1] (2009 rev.)), commonly known as the "Baker Act," allows the involuntary institutionalization and examination of an individual.

The Baker Act allows for involuntary examination (what some call emergency or involuntary commitment). It can be initiated by judges, law enforcement officials, physicians, or mental health professionals. There must be evidence that the person:

possibly has a mental illness (as defined in the Baker Act).
is a harm to self, harm to others, or self neglectful (as defined in the Baker Act).
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Morcey2 posted it up while I was typing . Thank you, Matt. :)
 
There are misinformed, and just plain stupid people everyware, why does it surprise anyone that this happened in Wall-Mart? We have all seen the cartoon emails of some of the folks who spend the day there.
This would just be another day at the store. We all have been making Wall-mart jokes for years. At least he didn't have it tucked in a bikini or a pair of Speedo's.
If you wanted to Baker Act people, you only need to pull the ambulance up to the entrance and wait about ten minutes in FL.
 
There is one very important take away from this for everyone here, and it concerns the bystanders who got in on the action.

We have a lot of threads on intervening here, in ST&T and in Legal. this incident highlights perfectly the need to know what you're getting into. If either one of those "good samaritans" had threatened Daniels with a weapon, they'd have been in handcuffs, too.
 
Plus, as a bonus, ... it upset MDA's Shannon Watts.
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Just shows what most of us have already known. The antis have no problem with violence as long as it's directed at the people who they don't agree with.
 
We might have a good chance at OC here in Texas in the near future.
I will be getting a new holster for my EDC G-26, but I will also be carrying a KaBar TDI LEO @ 10.
I'm a little surprised that no one has taken issue that the Man being assaulted was a person of color and the criminal was white. I'm really perplexed that no one would mention that or that this hasn't made more in the headlines,.....Not really.
 
Yahoo! News certainly brought out the race factor.

Upon arriving at the Walmart in Florida’s Hillsborough County on Tuesday, the 62-year-old Daniels, who is black, grabbed his handgun from his car and slipped it into a hip holster underneath his coat. Watching this from inside the store was Michael Foster, a 43-year-old white man described by the Tampa Bay Times as “a well-intentioned vigilante.”
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Maybe an undercover Cop passed by him while he was in custody and he went in to the same act again?
Either way, it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
 
BSA1 said:
So what did they do after Daniels announced he had a concealed carry permit? Just stand back while he was being physically attacked, pushed and held on the floor by brute physical force.

Did any of the “good Samaritans” have the courage to speak up and tell him to stop his attack and release Daniels?

How many of the other "good" people used the cell phones to record the attack rather than calling 911 and trying to stop the unprovoked attack?

How little have we learned from the past.
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OK, show me the video that has audio to answer all your questions. Show me the video that shows more than about a minute with just the immediate assault and disarming. So me the police report that documents the times and events as they recorded them after the fact by interviews.

We're making a lot of assumptions here...including me with my "good Samaritan" comment.

Ever been in a conflict with someone where you were right and they were wrong? It's simply AMAZING the lying BS that will come out of the other person's mouth in their attempt to evade responsibility, prosecution, capture.

One of the scenarios that's been bandied about on this, and other gun forum sites, has to do with those of us who choose to carry encountering a violent act involving someone else. Most jurisdictions that I know of allow the use of deadly force in defense not only themselves, but of another person. But you'd better be darn sure of the scenario involving the other person when you act. Examples have included coming up on some guy beating a woman in a parking garage...and it turns out it's her boyfriend/husband and the woman turns against the "savior" who intervened in her defense. Or other examples of domestic violence, wherein the perceived "victim" later presses charges against the person who acted to save them.

This, in many ways, is no different. The people around these two had no idea what all the background was between them. The fact of the matter is that those people knew only that Foster tackled a man while yelling "HE'S GOT A GUN!". They didn't know who EITHER of these guys were, so a few stepped up and removed the gun from the picture. At that point, things could more safely play themselves out for everybody in the area while the police arrived to sort things out.

So yeah...I don't blame them for what they did, nor do I believe they deserved to be charged with anything.

You may disagree, with your 20-20 hindsight. That's your prerogative.

;)


EDIT:

By the way...as for your question about how many other people used their cell phones to record events instead of calling 911...who cares? More evidence of what took place, as far as I'm concerned. In today's day and age, with virtually everybody having a cell phone with so many capabilities, it's to be expected that these things will happen. Doesn't make them bad.
 
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Wow. Just saw the address, that's the Wal-mart close enough that I routinely walk down there.

The Baker act might be indicative of a few things. Maybe he had some kind of issue around people in the jail, maybe he's depressed and showed signs of being suicidal (jail is NOT fun, even and especially if you thought you were in the right before), maybe the whole thing was caused by some kind of paranoia or PTSD. Hard to say.
 
Why on earth would someone do that? If I feel that I am in a deadly force encounter I sure as heck am not aiming for the leg.
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Sorry, I assumed people knew in-contact fighting techniques. One of them is to draw and shoot the leg when grabbed from behind. Another would be to draw a knife and start working on the arm and/or any available limb. Obviously, these are very situational and dependent upon opportunity.
 
Sorry, I assumed people knew in-contact fighting techniques. One of them is to draw and shoot the leg when grabbed from behind. Another would be to draw a knife and start working on the arm and/or any available limb. Obviously, these are very situational and dependent upon opportunity.
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Right, you attack the best of what is available given your situation. However, the way the situation went down, such options are not always as immediately available as one might like, but if you have the option, then using it in this situation certainly might have seemed prudent.
 
AlexanderA said:
We don't live in a society (if we ever did) in which casual gun carrying is generally accepted.
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Speak for yourself. This part of "we" does, in fact, live in such a society. It's not uncommon for me to carry, either openly or concealed on any given day. As far as I've noticed, nobody has ever given me - or my weapon - a second glance, let alone tackled and choked me simply because I was armed. The fact that you choose to cower to other people's fear is your issue - not mine. Please don't project your shortcomings onto others.
 
MedWheeler said:
Red Wind, not in the county in which I work. I see so much abuse of that act it's infuriating at times..
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WOW .. just did a search on the "Baker Act" it was initiated in Florida over 171,700 times in 2013 , so I don't think I would read to much into the fact he is being held under that act .
 
Another reason why to keep your firearms concealed in certain settings. The old guy could had just as easily been targeted by thugs. This is why I also EDC a neck and pocket knife.
 
This is why it is crucial when one CONCEAL carries!

To keep it CONCEALED!

The attacker was an idiot, but even in our CCW class, Our instructors drilled the fact that Concealed means Concealed and that even "printing" can cause problems in a public place.
 
We don't live in a society (if we ever did) in which casual gun carrying is generally accepted.
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I carried knife one time into Mcdonalds. A 5" dagger, in a sheath.

You wouldn't imagine the gasps and looks I got from people.

Try carrying a shotgun into a busy walmart, even if open carry is legal in your state. I'd love to see how long someone would last without getting the cops called.
 
The one time someone tried to chokehold me from behind (this was long before I could have even had a CPL). I reached back with both hands, grabbed behind his ears with my fingers and put my thumbs on his eyes, and started to press. He let go, quickly.

Dunno if I could do that today or not, but if I didn't have my gun (for what ever reason) I would sure try.
 
Lawsuit....

I watched the video & it's not quite clear what occurs. Even with the 2 angles.
From what is shown, the male victim(CCW holder) was bush-whacked & piled on by shoppers who used poor judgement/bad choices.
If it were me, Id want the attackers & the first older guy prosecuted.
"Printing" does not mean you run up & tackle a stranger in public. :rolleyes:
If you see something hinky or out-of-place, alert the property security or manager/staff first.
Doing security work, I've had guests/employees/residents etc relay concerns or details to me often. It's safe & prudent to handle problems that way.
Rash acts or snap judgements can lead to big problems later. :uhoh:
 
Rash acts or snap judgements can lead to big problems later.
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Or the lack of such judgments can result in folks being injured or killed. You don't really know until the event is over in a case like this. Foster made too many assumptions in this case as Daniels wasn't going to be doing anything wrong.

"Printing" does not mean you run up & tackle a stranger in public.

This wasn't a case of printing. :rolleyes: Foster saw Daniels take a gun from his car and put it under his coat. Still doesn't mean you get to tackle the guy, but it wasn't an issue of printing.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...-at-walmart-attacked-by-vigilante-for/2214432
 
"I can't help but wonder if Foster would have attacked an early 30s man that could pass for a 1%er, if he spotted my CC pistol."

That was my first thought when i read this story
 
Florida, open carry....

I disagree....
If you are a armed citizen & legally own a firearm/hold a valid CCW, you can move a gun, handle a gun, holster a gun, etc. The gun owner or CCW holder is not brandishing or acting disorderly.
In Florida, which BTW has more valid CCW license holders than any other state, :D , a new "open carry" law was put in place for the specific reason of license holders(W) to not be arrested or prosecuted when their sidearm is "exposed" or seen in the open. This is meant to be a brief event too. Like if you got out of your car or bend down to tie your shoe. :rolleyes:

In the late 1990s, I was going into a restaurant(suburbs of Pittsburgh PA) with my cousin. I was by the passenger side of the car & decided to remove my leather shoulder holster. My pistol, a 96D .40 was in a gun case & I wore my holster because I was going to conceal the firearm later. I had a valid CCW permit too, :D . I looked over at the window of the restaurant & saw a few of the patrons gawking at me, :eek: . I took my rig off and put my jacket back on. Nothing happened inside but if anyone asked, I could explain my actions.
PA now has "open carry" so guns/holsters/wear isn't a huge issue even in urban areas.

It's come up in other topics posted before but it bears repeating: what is the law & what you(or some other person) thinks is the law are 2 different things. :mad:
The victim(CCW holder) should file a civil action against his attackers & maybe Walmart for improper security.
 
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