ccw on jobsite parking lot

[P95loser]

i live in alabama, with a liscense to ccw... i work at lowes and they state in policies and procedures that handguns are not permitted on our person or in our vehicle while at work... I thought i could keep my gun in my car. That is a state law that i didnt think they could overide.

I am still doing it and just wondering what my situation is.

 

[billwiese]

Well, it's their property and their parking lot. You're their employee, and have a right to not work there.

BTW -- does Lowe's there ban CCW for customers (i.e., a 'no guns' sign on property, entryways, etc.?) The different treatment of employees vs customers could possibly be legally interesting.

I'm not sure how your state's CCW law is written, but many states' laws say you're allowed to CCW 'except where specifically prohibited by property owner' - like Texas' "30.06" signs.

Anyway you might not have much protection from gun law, and this simply becomes employment contract law...


Bill W.
San Jose, CA

 

[GhostRider66]

From what I understand here in TX, it would pretty much come down to whether or not the business owns the parking lot in question. It's pretty easy for a business to prohibit CCW by their employees (employee handbook, almost any sign will do, etc.) but the question comes down to the definition of premisis with regard to the parking lot. You might try calling the instructor you took the CCW course from and always check with packing.org

 

[Bravo11]

Our Lowes doesn't have any signs posted restricting CCW.
As far as asking your CCW instructor, it's been my experience that most
CCW instructors will pretty much quote you the law but won't go as far as lending legal advice or try to interprept the laws.

 

[Pilgrim]

I suspect the company's policy prohibiting firearms in your car in the parking lot as well as in the store has to do with keeping you from having the ultimate "trump card" in a management-labor dispute.

I suppose they think that if they have to fire you for breaking company rules you will at least honor the rule prohibiting firearms in your car in the parking lot.

Pilgrim

 

[Frandy]

Can't speak for Alabama

If you were here in NC, you'd be breaking the law. It's a misdemeanor and could result in your losing your carry license and geting a fine and up to a year in the local slammer.

 

[carebear]

Get your state law changed like we just did.

If it is legal for the general public to have weapons in their car in a public (not private, employees only) parking lot it should be ok for you, if only for consistency.

Until the law goes into effect I am parking off the company lot.

 

[hightech]

Parking

The law covers public areas not private. Park you car on a public street if you can or if there is a parking lot next door reserved for another store park there. Just remember that if you split hairs like this you may get on their list of first to go for any infraction.

 

[bogie]

The interesting thing is that a lot of employers are reading where insurance companies are saying that they shouldn't allow their employees to carry, and trying to extend it to their customers.

 

[carebear]

bogie,

According to spiffy and per some research I did about my company's choice to change theirs just recently, there are few if any insurance companies recommending or requiring these policies.

About the only original business policy guidelines or studies I can find published is the OSHA recommendations. Those other business think tanks that also recommend a "no weapons" policy seem to be lifting it chapter and verse from OSHA's website. Most don't mention weapons at all.

The companies may be checking with their lawyers about potential liability concerns but it doesn't seem to be insurance company driven as yet.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The interesting thing is that a lot of employers are reading where insurance companies are saying that they shouldn't allow their employees to carry, and trying to extend it to their customers.

I'm still waiting for someone to post the name and address of the insurance company that issues such requirements.

I don't believe a word of it. I think employers who like to practice anti-Second Amendment bigotry are trying to hide behind imaginary insurance requirements. In plain English, I think they're lying.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I once took a job at a Barnes & Noble. There are three B&N stores within hollarin' distance of me, all in strip malls, and none have any signs telling customers that CCW is not allowed. However, their personnel manual does have a statement that employees are not allowed to carry on company premises.

I was still in my training week when they sent me home to read the personnel manual, sign it, and return a signed acknowledgment to the store manager. I handed in my resignation instead.

But there is no question that they have a double standard, and the manager admitted it. They don't wish to chase away potentially paying customers, and I guess maybe they don't feel secure in having a right to tell licensed CCWs they can't carry in the stores. But they are adament about not allowing staff to carry. The manager went to corporate legal, and they wouldn't even allow me to bring a handgun to the store and keep it in my locker until quitting time. The store was in a rather "fringe" neighborhood and they wanted me to work the closing shift, then walk out to my car late at night, an hour after all the other stores had closed, undefended. Not a chance that was going to happen.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

I think I'd park across the street, personally...

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

Your situation is, "Keep your *&#*! mouth shut," and if you ever have to use that gun to save your own life, either on the grounds of your workplace or on your way to/from it, you will be happy to lose your job. You'll get another one.


-Jeffrey

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

The store was in a rather "fringe" neighborhood and they wanted me to work the closing shift, then walk out to my car late at night, an hour after all the other stores had closed, undefended. Not a chance that was going to happen.

Woulda been funny if you had written to corporate legal and challenged the suits who infest the place to come on down to your store and do the closing shift and see how comfortable they feel in the dark parking lot the way you did.

So why didn't you just take the job and carry anyway?
LOTS of people have jobs that say they can't carry, and they do it anyway.
...Trust me.

-Jeffrey

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

Well, it's their property and their parking lot. You're their employee, and have a right to not work there.

BTW -- does Lowe's there ban CCW for customers (i.e., a 'no guns' sign on property, entryways, etc.?) The different treatment of employees vs customers could possibly be legally interesting.
...

Anyway you might not have much protection from gun law, and this simply becomes employment contract law...


Bill W.
San Jose, CA

Dude, who are you kidding? You are the one who just told him he can like it or lump it because it's the company's right to set policy.

Why would you then suggest that it might be "legally interesting" because employees and customers are treated differently? It's cut-and-dried "employment contract law," and as you said, no one need have their rights denied, they just "don't have to work there."

In other words, you think anyone who wants a JOB should have to simply roll over and accept such a policy.

If my employer installed metal detectors (to keep out CCW per company policy), I would quit tomorrow.

-Jeffrey

 

[chopinbloc]

again i don't know your state law - packing.org is a great reference - but in az that's a property issue, not a gun issue. in other words, if an employer tells me i'm not allowed to carry at work and i do, i'm trespassing. class II misdemeanor, i think. nothing short of a felony or domestic violence misdemeanor can take my ccw away in az too. i get the sense that all things being equal you'd just leave it in your car. if that's the case, then do so - who's gonna know? on the other hand, the whole idea of concealed carry is that no one knows, so if you have a good carry setup, carry at work. i've carried at several jobs that told me i couldn't and no one ever knew. you may feel differently, but i'm not gonna stop carrying because of any man. they don't like it, screw 'em.

 

[carebear]

Technically, if they tell you not to carry at work and you do, that's a violation of policy and perhaps of your employment contract.

When they ask you to leave and you refuse, that's trespassing.

 

[BioDemon]

Park just off work property if posible.

 

[ken grant]

If your weapon is in the car or truck and hidden,how will your employer know ?
Do they search cars in their lot? Do they have the right to search?

 

[ALHunter]

As one who is occasionally forced to write such policies for employers in AL., the employer can legally dictate a weapons policy for their property. This can apply to all "weapons" too, e.g. ASP Batons, black jacks, knives, etc.

If you don't want to quit, and don't want to waste your time with a losing battel with the employer, then just keep it to yourself, or, like Derek Zeanah said, park somewhere other than their property.

 

[MLH]

Thank God I live in Kentucky!

A private but not a public employer may prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employer, but may not prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employee, except that the Justice Cabinet may prohibit an employee from carrying any weapons, or ammunition, or both other than the weapons, or ammunition, or both issued or authorized to be used Page 6 of 11 by the employee of the cabinet, in a vehicle while transporting persons under the employee's supervision or jurisdiction.

They may keep you from carrying at work, but can't keep you from keeping it in your car!

 

[spacemanspiff]

having worked in insurance all my adult life (my ten year anniversary is this october! how sad is that?) i have yet to see any property/liability insurance carrier restrict firearms. i cannot speak for workers comp policies, but i doubt they have such exclusions.

businesses will try to quote 'insurance' reasons for all kinds of baloney. in my youth i'd get booted from convenience stores because i was wearing rollerblades. they always said 'our insurance won't cover you if you fall so you can't be in here with those on'.
then i started reading the policies for those same stores once i got in this industry and discovered they lied. various employers will quote 'insurance' to keep people from being armed, but thats usually on the advice of their lawyers who help them write employee handbooks. its tied into a 'violence-free environment'.
osha pokes their nose into that can or worms and tells employers to look for 'warning signs' such as 'interest in weapons'. basically they could take a picture of my cubicle and have all the source material for their predictions of 'blood in the streets'. my collection of retrieved bullets from the range, my best groups tacked on the wall, various oleg posters, the statement from the BATFE on 9/13/04 about the AWB sunsetting, oh yeah, and the three dead hard drives pulled from my server that i put a few rounds through, just as a warning to the other office equipment that may decide to kick the bucket prematurely.

 

[P95loser]

someone at work told me a couple of days ago that lowes or home depot one went to court about this and lost...

they say that lowes puts it in policies and procedures but legally cant enforce it, also the building is "leased" somehow or another so i dont know if that would qualify as their property or not.

 

[Model520Fan]

LOTS of people have jobs that say they can't carry, and they do it anyway.
...Trust me.

I do. It was pretty funny to listen to an anti-gun person (he was partly right; HE has a temper and knows he is not to be trusted with a gun; he was apparently not aware that most other folks are more in control of themselves than he) bitch because the company had not provided extra security guards when one of several downsizings took place. This was in a large computer programmer section of the company, and was after the murders in Wakefield MA. He didn't know that yours truly had the same last-ditch safety devices he had had every single day of over five years of employment. I survived all of the downsizings, including the one that left me without a job.

All sorts of things are going on that not everyone broadcasts.

Yours truly,
520