CCW without permit

[Benelli Shooter]

Dahmer killed innocent people. If one of his victims would have had access to an illegal weapon, maybe Dahmer would have been stopped.

It is insanity to think that just because our corrupt government passes a law, it is a moral law. Our laws are arbitrary and mostly illegal. It is a fairy tale to think otherwise. Most laws are not written with your welfare in mind.

Should the Jews have just gone to the camps quietly as they were ordered? It was the law.

Embrace your inner outlaw.

 

[Nate1778]

I do agree years ago life was different, I also believe where you live is different as well. Law around here can have some "Good Ole Boys" in it and they are probably a bit more lenient than say an Orange County police officer. Sometimes not keeping up with the "rest of the country" is a good thing...

 

[ar10]

Probably get slammed for this but I post it:
Being one of the "poor" retired I do a lot of reading, mostly very early American history particularly the American Constitution including the Bill of Rights. One thing I found was our Constitution is dynamic, the signers and authors of the Constitution knew society would change long after they died. The 2nd Amendment was and will change depending on the mood of the people and elected officials. Even during Washington's term as President the delegates agreed that the "mob" needs to be governed by the "few" who had the whole nation to consider. I believe it was John Adams who stated "men are inherently cruel and don't see past their own selfish goals".
I understand the why part of the 2nd Amendment because every one of the founders understood that British and European leaders kept their "subjects" in check by disarming them. But as we move through history more and more control is taken over by the central government while states rights are slowly eroded. That is exactly what the "Sons of Liberty" fought against.

 

[Zach S]

I've done it. I've also drove way over the speed limit.

If its a good idea to do something illegal, there's a good chance that obeying the law might cost you or someone else dearly.

 

[rbernie]

I sense at least some people are in favor of not having to acquire a permit for what they feel is a right, but will follow the rules and jump through the hoops b/c its the law.

Absolutely true (italics are mine).

Some folk talk about how they view any effort to dictate the terms and conditions of firearms ownership as infringements upon the Second Amendment. And that may be their viewpoint. Some of them might even walk that walk instead of just talking.

But most folk will make bona-fide efforts to comply with the existing laws, simply because we are raised to believe in the rule of law.

Embrace your inner outlaw.

Just a brief reminder that we do not encourage acts of illegality here on THR. I understand that all of us are scofflaws in some way (certain as regards speed limits, at a minimum ), but we should still take pains to ensure that our public face is one of willingness to work within and live within the rule of law.

As an example - if you don't like CHL laws, then work to get open carry legally allowed in your state. But nobody should come here braggin' about how they carry without legal cover, because we simply do not accept that kind of braggidocio.

 

[Robert]

Carrying a ccw without a permit where one is needed is illegal. I sure hope that ya'll have a decent lawyer on retainer to back you up. Me I can not afford a lawyer, good or otherwise, so I got my permit and now carry nice and legal.

And though not overtly mentioned, it is not THR to discuss illegal actions at all.

 

[razorback2003]

Costs

You have a lot of options to avoid breaking the law. If you are in a state where it is legal to openly carry without a license, do that and avoid the fine. If you can conceal or open carry in your car without a license, go for that.

The fact is you will come out cheaper purchasing a license in most states than getting charged with a weapons offense and trying to get your gun back......if the court gives you that option. It will probably be a real big hassle. You may be handcuffed...you may be processed and have to post bond and appear in court. You'd probably want a lawyer to try to get a dismissal (if you have a clean criminal record). Do you really want to pay for all that? It is good to have a license on hand in the event you feel you badly need to carry in the future.

Law enforcement is generally friendly to people with licenses and not as friendly to those breaking the law and carrying without a license.

 

[REAPER4206969]

I support peaceable people that carry without a permit/license 100%

 

[DasFriek]

I will admit i have no plans to ccw without a permit,that being said there may be a time when i feel a need too.
Say if i take a 300 mile trip alone and possibly into remote areas,i dont think id keep it on me but in my car.
Once things in my life settle down a bit i fully plan on taking the required courses in order to obtain a ccw in ohio,i am lucky we do have that option here.
I will say i think i would be so nervous carrying one without a permit id be ready to take it off first chance i got.In saying that i think you can see it dont take doing so lightly.

In ohio its illegal to even carry a knife of any blade size,so pocket knives can be considered ccw if the LEO wants to be a jerk.But i regulerly carry my folding Benchmades in sheaths all with 3" blades and no issues.
But i dont think id get the same responce if a LEO saw the butt on my gun,id fully expect to be questioned and have nice new bracelets.

I think im kinda waiting until i get a smaller gun for ccw,my current G20 is almost to big and my next purchase is a 1911 wich is just as big.
My 3rd will be a small 9 and when i get that im gonna start the courses.
Or earlier if i get time or bored as i dont have to have a small gun in order to do it.

 

[Harve Curry]

Before CCW in New Mexico carrying concealed was a petty misdemeanor. I don't know what it is now?? I never did it but concievably it was cheaper to pay the misdeanor fine of about $25 then what it costs for a CCW and classes.

At the time I was arguing to repeal the misdeanor, using Vermont as an example. But the NRA wouldn't and politicians got there way. It's about money and record keeping.

 

[FHBrumb]

Wisconsin has the right to own and carry as part of it's constitution. The Attorney General confirmed this in writing this year. In an interview, years ago, Governor Doyle was asked about CCW, and said he would never sign it. He said that if the people of Wisconsin wanted to carry a pistol, it should be "right here", and patted his hip, meaning in plain view.

Only once that I can find, was a citizen aquitted of CCW illegally. He had been convicted, and appealed up to the State Supreme Court. His past had him being robbed at gunpoint many times. He was a Dominos Pizza Guy.

At the Court, it was said that his need to carry in a concealed fashion to protect his life outweighted the States responsibility to prohibit it. To not be convicted, this burden is on the Defendant. You must prove that your particular circumstances forced you to illegally carry CCW outweighs the States responsibility, due to public health and safety, to prohibit it.

In the past, under certain circumstances, I have risked CCW here. There are some places I simply will not drive to, or through, without a 45.

 

[Jim K]

Folks can argue Second Amendment until Elise comes home, but if you carry a gun illegally and are caught, you will have a chance to tell it to a judge and you WILL lose. Every time. No exceptions. Period.

That being said, I have long stated my belief that people who feel the need to carry a gun will do so, no matter what the law says. If your life is at stake and the threat is real ("they will kill me", not "someone might hurt me") being arrested for illegal carry is a risk you will take. But IMHO, it is not worth the risk of jail time and a conviction that would keep me from ever owning a gun just to carry because it is "cool" or I want to play macho.

Jim

 

[senior]

permits

gun permits for ccl is nothing more than one more way for the gov. to get their greedy hands in your pockets!

 

[Cannonball888]

Carrying a concealed firearm not in comission of another crime is still only a misdemeanor in some states and will not keep you from obtaining a CWP since it isn't a felony and doesn't fall under Lautenberg.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Carrying a concealed firearm not in comission of another crime is still only a misdemeanor in some states and will not keep you from obtaining a CWP since it isn't a felony and doesn't fall under Lautenberg.

Yes it's a misdemeanor, but that's not like a traffic ticket. It's real live criminal offense and is treated as such.

You'll go to jail in handcuffs, be booked, finger printed, and have mug shot taken. You'll stay in jail until a judge decides your bail and you make bail.

In California, and I suspect in other state, it's a weapons offense; and that will mean no more guns under state law (and you'll have to give up the ones you already have). And you can go to jail for up to one year.

If you have a clean record, you'll probably get offered a plea deal and probation that will keep you out of jail. However, a consistent probation requirement will be "no guns."

A conviction on a misdemeanor can also cause collateral damage. You'll probably have to pay a bunch of money to a lawyer. It could also affect your job. Does your job require you to me bondable and would the bonding company have a problem with the misdemeanor conviction? Would your employer? Does your trade or profession require a license, and could a misdemeanor conviction affect any license you may need?

These are all things to think about, and you should check your own state's law carefully so you'll Know the legal risks.

 

[FHBrumb]

Yes, in WI, it's a Class A Mis.

 

[EYESOFTEXAS]

I've considered the "to-carry-or-not-to-carry" question each time I traveled to NJ.

On the one hand, get caught = go to jail. Period.

On the other hand, you've got stuff like

-- "Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six"
-- "Guns are like parachutes- if you need one, and you ain't got one, you'll never need one again."
-- Etc.

If I'm traveling with my family I don't like the idea of surrendering their well-being to the mercy of someone else's good will for them (or lack of it, I should say).

But I also don't like the idea of my boys growing up and their dad is doing 5-10 in Rahway state prison because he got caught carrying.

I'd feel different about the last one if I'm doing time because I pulled the weapon and used the weapon to defend my family in NJ vs. I got caught because it "printed" at the mall.

It's a personal choice. You put something at risk no matter how you come down.

Most will argue it's an easy choice because it's illegal to carry. I may or may not come down the same way, but I don't think it's easy. Depends on your values. Things like "civil disobedience" and "Be a good Nazi?" come to mind.

And before someone jumps all over me saying "Yeah, but you can't win in court with that" -- I get it. 10-4. Can't win in court. I'm talking about something bigger.

All that said, if you can get a CHL in your state, but don't, and you carry anyway, I think you're asking for it. In the same way I don't think Nugent's a hypocrite for beating him chest about the Second Amendment and then getting the right to carry everywhere. Why risk anything on principle when there are means within the law that get you the same result?

Just my thoughts.

 

[CoRoMo]

Ted Nugent said, on "Texas Monthly" , "The second amendment to our Bill of Rights is my concealed carry permit period"

Then he went out and had himself declared a "special constable" of the state of Texas so he could carry anywhere under LEOSA. Bit of a hypocrite if you ask me.

Untrue. The Nuge became a constable, rather than having himself declared such, approx. 2004-ish. The Texas Monthly interview took place April 2007 IIRC. He didn't "then" go out and do anything hypocritical. In fact, he's been able to carry without a permit for approx 30 years due to his deputy sheriff status from Michigan.

Back to the OT. Many absolutists such as myself know what the 2A has acknowledged, but unless we live in one of the two states that recognize that freedom without feeling the need to make money off of it, we'd best abide by the law of our state.

If you want to be a martyr and create a criminal record to reflect the sacrifice of your beliefs, go ahead. Eventually, you'll never be able to pass a NICS check again. It's the world we live in. It's the rules we have to play by.

 

[SHvar]

I firmly believe that all those with a clean criminal history (no felonies) should carry everywhere, why, simple, our society would be a much safer, much kinder society.
Imagine the attitude change, the thought that you could risk your life by making almost anyone angry, of course eventually natural selection and common sense would seriously reduce or crime.
I CCW, and sometimes I dont even carry but I have that option.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Imagine the attitude change, the thought that you could risk your life by making almost anyone angry, of course eventually natural selection and common sense would seriously reduce or crime.

Is that why you carry? So that people are afraid to disagree with you? Your attitude is exactly why most colleges are against concealed carry. They are afraid that any sort of heated debate will result in a shooting. Based on your comments, they may be on to something.

I find the implication that those who carry would shoot another person simply because they are angry to be insulting. As a permit holder, you should be ashamed for posting such nonsense.

 

[Rockwell1]

In fact, he's been able to carry without a permit for approx 30 years due to his deputy sheriff status from Michigan.

I apologize for getting the timing wrong, but either way the 2nd amendment still isn't his carry permit and he still used his celebrity status to secure a privlege that most of us aren't allowed access to.

 

[CoRoMo]

...he still used his celebrity status...

I'd need to know where you got that info before I could agree with it.

Maybe my sig line should read...

In two of the fifty states, the Second Amendment of our Bill of Rights is my concealed weapons permit, period!

The truth of the matter is that the 2A was intended to be just that. So, yes it is, but unfortunately, only two states care to leave it alone like they're all supposed to. The rest have criminalized that right.

 

[Frog48]

Then he went out and had himself declared a "special constable" of the state of Texas so he could carry anywhere under LEOSA. Bit of a hypocrite if you ask me.

I believe that appointed as a Reserve Deputy by a county Constable's office. All city/county/state LEO's in Texas must be TCLEOSE licensed, which is Texas' commission regulating peace officers.

Theres no such thing as a "Special Constable of the State of Texas"... Constable is a county-level elected office, and obviously Constables are authorized to commission deputies. And contrary to rumor, you cant be "declared" any sort of peace officer in Texas without a TCLEOSE peace officer license. So either he attended a police academy in Texas, or TCLEOSE reviewed his reciprocity application and recognized the police academy curriculum he must have completed in Michigan, where he previously was a Deputy Sheriff.

This isnt the "good old days" of sheriffs and constables deputizing their buddies without any sort of training, oversight, or accountability.

 

[ccsniper]

I'm pretty sure here in Arkansas that if you are carrying a gun without a permit it is only a misdemeanor, and that is waived if you use your gun in defense of yourself or someone else. Not sure about this so please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not old enough to carry, but as soon as I turn 21 I will get the permit.

 

[KBintheSLC]

I have no quarrel with the OP... I have a CCW permit because I can have one and it makes my life easier. However, I do not feel that a CCW permit is required under the 2nd Amendment and therefore I don't think it is necessary on a moral level. Here in UT, it is only a misdemeanor if you are caught concealing a pistol without a CCW... that is a fair trade to be able to defend your life. Keep a low profile, and they will never know.