Ceiner made my gun full auto?

[Standin]

I just finished building a AR15, and I need a little advise. I put a ceiner 22 conversion kit in the new AR15, and no gas tube. Went to the range to test the new gun, it seems to think it's full auto, it emptied the clip in a 10th of a second(as well as 4 other clips). I don't want a full auto... what is wrong...

 

[bullseye308]

Best thing to do is to remove the conversion kit and contact whomever you got it about retunring it for a replacement. First in importance is to remove it from the lower and separate the two. Some agancy could appear at the smell of "intent".

 

[kingpin008]

Agreed.

However, I have one question: if you knew that the gun was malfunctioning, why would you fire another THREE magazines worth through it? I mean, I can see loading one more mag with a few rounds just to see if it'll happen again, but why did you run a total of four mags through a gun that you obviously knew was exhibiting a dangerous malfunction?

IMHO, you're lucky nobody at the range took enough notice of you playing with your accidentally-FA conversion to bother alerting the Feds.

 

[Utah1]

Somewhere out there is a ATF agent figuring out who you are. If they can get to that AR before you get those parts out they'll have you on felony charges. They won't care about any excuse you have either. Even having the parts out of the rifle will get you in trouble. I'd get that rifle taken aprt and the conversion stuff on its way back to wherever you got it ASAP.

 

[spartywrx]

I'd delete this thread ASAP for the good of everyone involved.

 

[thriftyjoe]

Very very smart! how about posting a sign in your front yard "I have illegal guns in my house"

In addition you admited to continued use of the gun once it was recongnized as full auto

 

[Grassman]

Are we exaggerating just a bit folks? Heck yes I would run a few mags through it also. You guys know you would too, who are you kidding? But I agree he need to get it off the gun, and back to the seller.

 

[average_shooter]

So you didn't do a function check with the weapon unloaded?

Basic function check; Be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN the weapon is unloaded and empty. Pull the charging handle to the rear and release. Move safety to "Fire" position. Pull trigger and hold to the rear. While holding trigger to the rear manually pull the charging handle to the rear and release. The hammer should cock and stay cocked, if it follows the bolt back then you have a problem. Repeat multiple times.

With a simple function check you could have, and can, better determine what might be happening.

You say you just finished building an AR, yet you blame the pre-manufactured conversion kit for the malfunction? I guess I wouldn't be so sure it wasn't something you assembled incorrectly. I'm not trying to place blame, but let's not jump to unnecessary conclusions.

 

[Zoogster]

It appears you want technical advice.
Many appear quite eager to instead give you solely legal advice.

You mentioned you installed no gas tube, maybe it is malfunctioning due to the incomplete firearm, operating at an unintended pressure?

It could also be slam firing for some reason, which could be really dangerous because then the rimfire round could be firing prematurely. Firing out of battery when the rim is struck.


Another concern would be what parts you used to make the rifle since you said you built it yourself. If you used any m16 components you would certainly want to get rid of those.
Do you have a standard upper and any problems with it?

If you were to try to fix it, firing multiple magazines when clearly malfunctioning would not be the recommended way to proceed when testing it in the future.

 

[kingpin008]

Are we exaggerating just a bit folks?

No.

I can say with 100% certainty that if I ever have a firearm go FA on me without it being an actual FA-capable firearm, I will NOT be "running a few mags" through it. If something is broken enough to cause a gun to go FA, it could be broken enough to blow up in my hands, too.

I'm not exactly interested in the potential attention it'd bring from the ATF, either. Ever heard of Olofson? All it takes is one call from a fellow range patron and they're on you like white on rice. At least you'd have plausible deniability if you packed the thing up the second it stopped going FA. How are you going to explain that you didn't mean for it to do what it did if 20 other people saw you "run a few mags through it" before you got worried enough about your malfunctioning gun to call it a day?

 

[Grassman]

I guess we are different then.

 

[thriftyjoe]

Are we exaggerating just a bit folks? Heck yes I would run a few mags through it also. You guys know you would too, who are you kidding?

There was a saying back in communist Russia "what one thinks he does not need to say... what one says he does not need to write..."

We dont live in communist Russia. We live in the U.S. with the BATF who can be unfriendly to well intended firearms owners.

 

[kingpin008]

I guess we are different then.

Seems that way.

My point is this - in this day and age, it's proven that fooling around with an illegal FA firearm can get you some SERIOUS negative attention from the Feds. Olofson proved this. Now, I would like to shoot a FA as much as the other guy, but is ~40 rounds of .22lr (not even $2 worth of ammo) worth a potential multi-hundreds-of-thousands of dollars in court fees, which could potentially land you in Federal prison for 10 years or more? If you say yes, then more power to you sir. I wish you luck in all future endeavors, because you may just need it!

 

[Giver of Doom]

You do know that the feds are gonna arrest you at the post office when you go to return it.

 

[CleverNickname]

I've had this happen to me with my Ceiner kit too. The problem was the hammer wasn't being pushed back far enough to catch on the disconnector. I put in a weaker hammer spring I got from Lakeside Guns and it works fine now. Of course, most of the time I'm shooting my .22 upper on my M16, so I want full-auto fire.

You mentioned you installed no gas tube, maybe it is malfunctioning due to the incomplete firearm, operating at an unintended pressure?

Atchisson-style .22LR conversion kits like the Ceiner are blowback operated, no gas tube needed.

 

[kingpin008]

You do know that the feds are gonna arrest you at the post office when you go to return it.

Good thing he doesn't have to go to the Post Office to mail it then, isn't it? :banghead:

 

[Dr.Mall Ninja]

I cant believe you posted this on the internet! Make it stop shooting full auto, i wouldn't care if I had to take a hammer to my AR and break it into pieces, that is better then going to prison

 

[StealthyBlagga]

I've had this happen to me with my Ceiner kit too. The problem was the hammer wasn't being pushed back far enough to catch on the disconnector. I put in a weaker hammer spring I got from Lakeside Guns and it works fine now. Of course, most of the time I'm shooting my .22 upper on my M16, so I want full-auto fire.


Atchisson-style .22LR conversion kits like the Ceiner are blowback operated, no gas tube needed.

This is the correct advice. The GI hammer spring is too heavy. I replaced mine with a JP yellow reduced power hammer spring and now my conversion runs 100%.

 

[Giver of Doom]

The feds frown at mailing full auto parts with out the proper paper work.... he became a felon after the second clip.

 

[CleverNickname]

I would be interested to know if the lower functioned properly with a centerfire upper though, just to make sure you assembled everything correctly.

 

[kingpin008]

The feds frown at mailing full auto parts with out the proper paper work.

He wouldn't be mailing full auto parts. He'd be mailing the Ceiner conversion kit, which is perfectly legal. The Feds would have no legal basis to bust him for mailing a legal caliber conversion kit.

 

[longdayjake]

Just so you know, they just scrambled the black helicopters from the secret ATF base that is near my house. My guess is that they are fully equipped with tinfoil penetrating brain scanners and an areial sonar to find any sunken boats. You are screwed.

Seriously though, don't let the paranoid people scare you. Just fix the gun and shoot it normally. Unless you intend to continue using the gun on full auto like that you have nothing to worry about. You would be surprised how common this problem is. There are all kinds of guns at the gunsmith that are awaiting repairs because someone got a little to bubba on a sear or spring or what have you. Just make sure you fix it asap and no one will be breaking down your door. That said, it is always ill advised to shoot a gun that you know is malfunctioning. Even if the malfunction is kinda fun.

 

[kingpin008]

How is caution based on real-life events "paranoia"?

Even though it looks more and more like Olofson purposefully made the necessary modifications to his rifle himself rather than the gun itself being defective, the circumstances are otherwise identical. Fellow is at the range, gun goes FA unexpectedly. Concerned citizen calls the Feds, rifle owner ends up in world of excrement.

The same situation could have occurred here. For all we know, it did, and the relevant agents just haven't had the time to contact him yet. So no, it's not paranoia.

 

[longdayjake]

Two things are needed for a criminal conviction of any kind. First mens rea and then actus reus. First, this post proves that he did not have mens rea when assembling the gun. It proves that he wants to fix the problem. IF he gets in trouble it would only be because he admitted to continual use of the firearm after he determined it was defective. Even then, if the feds show up to get him and the rifle is already taken apart, then they have nothing on him other than he said that his gun shot full auto. A confession is not enough for beyond reasonable doubt. No federal prosecutor would waste his time on something so trivial unless the gun remained in the current state. The facts are as follows:

1. He bought a part that is defective as is.
2. He went seeking advice on how to fix the defect.

Olofson's case is different in just about every way except for the accidental full auto. First, he was charged with illegal transfer not possession. Second, the parts that caused the full auto were recalled parts. And third, the person that actually fired the full auto out of Olofson's rifle was never charged. Fourth, he made no effort to fix the problem. Fifth, we don't know all the facts of the case.

Paranoia is really the best way to describe what is happening in this thread. Just take the conversion kit off and you are good to go.

 

[Dr.Mall Ninja]

I'm kinda newer to these board''s and im wonderings as well as other people are probably, who is Olofson and what happend, im assuming hes a high road member that got in trouble for a full auto.