Chambering issues after full length resizing

[osteodoc08]

Started shooting my 22-250. Bought RCBS dies and Hornady brass. Full length sized and trimmed brass to 1.900. Loaded up 55gr Nosler BT to 2.350. Shot well and got 3/4" groups.

Full length resize, no trim needed and loaded again. At this time getting to load them was not difficult, but required more down force on the bolt handle, almost like a slightly sticky bolt lift type effort. Took a sharpie and there is removal of the sharpie at the bottom the shoulder.

Are my dies defective? I took more once fired brass, made sure the sizing die was as far down as possible and was caming over on the bottom of the die. A comparison to factory shows easy bolt closing. I pulled a bullet out a of a factory load and ran it up into the sizing die WITHOUT lube and there was no effort at all to run the ram up and down. Perhaps my die is out of spec?

 

[gamestalker]

That chamber might be on the tight side? I have one a couple of actions that require full cam over to get the brass to chamber properly, which I find rather good considering. You can buy competition shell holders that will allow a bit more travel into the die in .001" increments. They are expensive, but should help you to resolve the issue with more precision.

Or you can risk trying to take some material off of your current shell holder, though I don't personally recommend it unless you have the ability to use precision machining tooling.

GS

 

[243winxb]

Make sure the the sizing die is adjusted so that the shell holder contacts the base of the die when the ram is at the top of its stroke when resizing a case.

 

[osteodoc08]

Make sure the the sizing die is adjusted so that the shell holder contacts the base of the die when the ram is at the top of its stroke when resizing a case.

It's caming over with some effort to cam over.

I also took 0.002" off the shell holder and no improvement.

I'm guessing dies are out of spec.

 

[243winxb]

Other causes - COL to long. High pressure bulged the brass web area. Crimp bulging the brassshoulder.

 

[osteodoc08]

Coal non issue before

All loads under book max. I'm only owner of gun. Never high pressure signs

Won't load without slight sticky bolt down movement with case only a well.

 

[osteodoc08]

If the decap pin is set too far down, would it bump the shoulder back and put a minuscule bulge in the base of the shoulder?

 

[Vol46]

If the decap pin is set too far down, would it bump the shoulder back and put a minuscule bulge in the base of the shoulder?

No - the decapping pin only punches out the old primer and ( with the expander ball) on the way out, properly sizes the case neck. The die body is what bumps the shoulder back. The amount the shoulder is bumped back depends on how far the die is screwed down.

 

[osteodoc08]

Then I'm at a loss. I'll call RCBS in the morning.

 

[steve4102]

Then I'm at a loss. I'll call RCBS in the morning.

In the mean time, take a fired case and size it with your current set-up.

See how this empty sized case chambers in your rifle.

If it chambers with ease, then you have a problem with your seating process.

If it chambers difficult, then your sizing die may indeed be out of spec.

If it is Out of spec RCBS will make it right. They will want you to send them your FL die along with 4-5 fired un-sized cases.

BTW, are you sure this is an FL die and not a Neck die?

 

[murf]

get the sharpie out, paint your case, run it through the chamber and see where it is sticking.

murf

 

[RAT807]

Do you have a way to measure the case? Base to datum line? My .280 cases new are about 2.080" to the datum line on the shoulder. My chamber will allow cases up to 2.094" and normally takes 3 firings to get close to this. Loads on the low to mid power range will expand to 2.084". Cases up to max charge will be up to 2.086" after one firing. These are Remington and Norma cases so not sure about your Hornady cases. There are several tools you can use to measure this but I use the Hornady headspace gauge with a digital caliper.

Something else you can confirm. Look on the die at the stamp, label on the box and make sure you did get a FL sizing die and not a neck-sizing die placed in the FL box by mistake.

 

[osteodoc08]

Steve: that is exactly what I did. Full length sized and chambered it. It will chamber but is a little sticky in closing. It's not a huge difference from closing it on an empty chamber but noticeable to me.

Murf: painted with a sharpie and its coming off on the mid shoulder of the case.

Rat807: I'm familiar with the datum line and head spacing but don't have the appropriate equipment to measure that. I checked die and it's a FLS die.

 

[steve4102]

If you can, chamber a piece of New brass or a Factory round and see if you "feel" the same resistance. Could just be the way your rifle reacts to a case in the chamber. Did you try taking the firing pin out?

 

[osteodoc08]

Factory round is smooth as silk. Heck, i even took a factory round, pulled the bullet and ran it up into the resizing die with no lube and it had minimal to no resistance up or down.

 

[W.E.G.]

OP, if you are not using a case gage to measure your finished product when producing bottleneck rifle rounds, you are just guessing at whether you sized them right.

Get a proper case gage, and measure your product.

But, don't take my word for it.

From Krieger Barrels web site:

Properly sizing brass.



Get a case gauge for the cartridge you are reloading for, this is an invaluable tool when it comes to sizing brass. A case gauge is essentially a ‘chamber’ in a piece of steel with a hi/low limit step at the base to check headspace of your brass (checking from a datum point on the shoulder to the base of the case head), as well as a hi/low limit step at the case mouth to determine proper trim length. If one is not available for the cartridge you are loading for, have one made by a custom gunsmith. Do not believe that screwing your sizing die down to the shell holder will properly size it. We have had two personal incidents where doing this (following the die manufacturers instructions) has pushed the shoulder back .050” too far on a set of .308 dies, and also did not size the shoulder back far enough (by .005”) on a set of .223 dies. In both cases, the case gauge showed this on the first piece of brass sized! The .308 was an easy fix, just unscrew the die in the press by the .050” that it was short. The .223 needed .005” removed from the top of the shell holder on a precision grinder to correct the problem. Now that shell holder is ‘married’ to that sizing die for life. Some benchrest shooters and other advanced reloaders / long range shooters will even have custom dies made to re-size brass and seat bullets to there specific chamber, also using special "arbor press" type reloading presses for these operations.



If the shoulder on your brass is pushed back too far, at ‘best’ you will have accuracy issues, at ‘worst’ you can have a failure to extract or failure to fire because the cartridge is pushed too far into the chamber. Or, it could fire, stretching the brass too far, too fast, and you could split or separate a case. If it is not sized back far enough for the chamber in your rifle, you can have a failure to feed or completely close the bolt. Depending on the length and the rifle type, this could result in firing out of battery and can be extremely dangerous!



Properly sizing brass is even MORE important if you are firing brass in a loose chamber, then sizing it for a match or minimum tolerance chamber. Brass springs back a bit after sizing and it is common for .223 Rem ammo fired in a NATO chamber to not size properly, even with a full length die, to fit into a minimum SAAMI .223 Remington chamber. In these cases a “Small Base” sizing die may need to be used, but still does not guarantee it will fully re-size brass fired in a loose chamber to the point that it will work in your minnimum SAAMI chamber. WHENEVER POSSIBLE a rilfe barrel with a new match chamber should only be fired with new unfired brass for the first time, then that brass re-sized and used in that rifle/chamber only. Even rifles chambered with the same reamer can vary enough that brass sizing can be an issue. Please keep this in mind when you have an "It works in rifle "A" but not rifle "B" " issue with your ammo.

 

[Kurastduuks]

Well clearly your RCBS dies are repulsed by your Hornady brass! Everyone knows red and green fight like cats and dogs!

 

[homatok]

Make sure the expander plug is clean and there is at least a small bit of lubrication inside the case neck. Sometimes the expander will "pull" the shoulder forward as it is withdrawn from the case if it binds.

 

[Ifishsum]

^^^^^
Homatok makes a good point; the first rifle cartridge I reloaded was .204 and I had that very problem when I skipped lubing inside the neck.

 

[kimbernut]

Heed

Heed homatok's advice and I know you said the press was camming over but sometimes with a tight chamber you will have to cam over harder to size right. If that doesn't solve the problem or if you don't want the extra effort RCBS will fully stand behind their product. Talk it out with them.

 

[Maj Dad]

You probably ought to pick up a Wilson case length gauge, especially with a 22-250. My brother-in-law checked every round he loaded, and he settled on the Wilson after trying a couple & not liking them for cause. It's a good idea to get things set up so they get the rounds right, but if you plan on counting on the round chambering (and, hopefully, firing) you have to check each one. Really quick and easy - as each one comes out of the final die, drop it in the case length gauge, eyeball the base, and move on...

 

[osteodoc08]

Case guage on its way. Appreciate advice on the Wilson.

 

[murf]

while you are waiting on your case gauge, you can take your calipers and measure the sized case: diameter at wall/shoulder junction, diameter at datum line, and compare to measurements taken on a factory round. you may have to send that sizing die back.

murf

 

[WVRJ]

The factory brass going easily into the die would likely indicate that the die is indeed a bit off.It could also be the expander ball distorting the case on withdrawal if there's a lot of pull.I use Redding case neck lube on all my bottleneck brass.I think though,it is a diameter problem with the die,not a datum line issue.