Charter Arms Undercover not stamped +P

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OrangePwrx9

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Noticed my new CA is not stamped +P even though it's the steel frame version (73820). There's weasel words in the manual saying in effect 'yes you can shoot +P but we don't recommend a steady diet because the short barrel affects performance'. Yet they market the .357 Mag Pug with only a couple tenths of an inch more barrel. You'd think if 2.0" of barrel was insufficient for +P, that 2.2" wouldn't be any better for magnums.

Has anyone had problems shooting +P .38Spcl in their Undercover? I'll probably shoot just standard loads (reload for an Airweight J-frame as well), but I like having some extra margin.
 
I think a steady diet of +P that was enough to wreck the UC would wreck my wrist first. I love my UC. I shoot it better than any .38 snub nose I have ever owned. I don't think I'll wear it out, though. I prefer to stoke mine with standard pressure SWC. Punches a hole without punishing me too much.
 
Charter arms are not well built guns imo.

I wouldn't trust one that wasnt specifically stamped.
I really dont trust them anyway.
 
Charter arms are not well built guns imo.

I wouldn't trust one that wasnt specifically stamped.
I really dont trust them anyway.
That is not correct. Back in the 70s Charter Arms was on it's way to being a premier American gun maker. For some reason it was sold several times over the years and one owner was worse than the other, Charter Arms 2000 being the worst. One of the original owners, the Ecker family bought it back and it is again a top rate manufacturer. I feel their guns can be trusted and I own 2.

No, I do not have any connection to the company.
 
That is not correct. Back in the 70s Charter Arms was on it's way to being a premier American gun maker. For some reason it was sold several times over the years and one owner was worse than the other, Charter Arms 2000 being the worst. One of the original owners, the Ecker family bought it back and it is again a top rate manufacturer. I feel their guns can be trusted and I own 2.

No, I do not have any connection to the company.
Well look them up when they were blowing up. The 2000 era was a joke. CA is still a cheap gun compared to others in its price range. I would trust a ruger way before a charter arms. Also if it doesn't say +p I definitely wouldn't try it in a CA
I would try it in a ruger
 
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Well look them up when they were blowing up. The 2000 era was a joke. CA is still a cheap gun compared to others in its price range. I would trust a ruger way before a charter arms. Also if it doesn't say +p I definitely wouldn't try it in a CA
I would try it in a ruger
The only gun Ruger makes that is comparable by even an iota is the Ruger LCR, the SP101 is a tad too big to fit the bill. So are you implying that you would rather shoot plus in a polymer framed revolver vs one of all steel construction?
 
In general, the markings of +P don't make the gun any stronger. If a manufacturer doesn't mark the gun up with all kinds of lawyer stuff but they tell you in the manual instead, that should be good enough.
 
Just remember most +P is a gimmick and marketing ploy. Most is not even loaded to the original 38 special specs. Its just a little better than the dumbed down stuff they now pass off as 38 special that is no better than the 38 long colt it was supposed to replace. This explains it better than I can.

http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/01/p-phenomenon-by-saxonpig.html
 
From the Charter Arms FAQ page. Only took a minute to find. https://charterfirearms.com/pages/faqs

Can I shoot +P in my .38 revolver?

Charter .38's are among the smallest revolvers in this caliber. Yes they can handle +P but we do not recommend it for the following reasons:

+P ammo requires a four-inch minimum barrel to burn the extra powder. Therefore, in a two-inch barrel the extra powder is burned after the bullet leaves the barrel creating more recoil and making it harder to come back to target.

We recommend a standard velocity load and practice with round nose lead rounds which are the least expensive. When you load for protection, use a jacketed or hollow point in the same grain you practice with.

Yes they can handle +P but we do not recommend it for the following reasons:

I don't agree with their reasons but they say you can shoot +P.
 
That is not correct. Back in the 70s Charter Arms was on it's way to being a premier American gun maker. For some reason it was sold several times over the years and one owner was worse than the other, Charter Arms 2000 being the worst. One of the original owners, the Ecker family bought it back and it is again a top rate manufacturer. I feel their guns can be trusted and I own 2.

No, I do not have any connection to the company.

Haters gotta hate. And I'm with you. I have several vintage CAs and trust them all. Still have to wring out a 44 Spl I picked up but have no reason to doubt it will be just fine too.
 
26,000 PSI is well over +P+.
Who said anything about 26,000 psi, did I miss something? Besides, there are no +P+ specifications from SAAMI.

Most commercial .38 Special +P ammo is loaded well below the 20,000 PSI limits. I'm not telling anyone to shoot ammo they don't feel safe shooting, I'm just talking about the numbers.
 
26,000 psi in the test article above. 25 rounds at 26,000 psi.
If you're talking about the link in Post #13, I didn't read it. What does that person's opinion have to do with what we are discussing if he is taking about 26,000 psi? We are talking about ammo made to SAAMI standards. There are no +P+ standards so why talk about it in this discussion?
 
The article was the results of a quality of materials/ safety test for the newly released Charter Arms Undercover. Test included 25 rounds with a pressure rating of 26,000 psi.
 
If you're talking about the link in Post #13, I didn't read it. What does that person's opinion have to do with what we are discussing if he is taking about 26,000 psi? We are talking about ammo made to SAAMI standards. There are no +P+ standards so why talk about it in this discussion?

He is referring to the article in post #6 not #13. And I have posted the article several times in the hope that some will read it and get over their obsession with +P ammo and see it is not all you think it is. And I am sure there is some legitimate +P ammo loaded but you have to go to someone like Buffalo Bore and pay a dollar or more per round to get it. Another point in the article in post #13 is that what is now labeled +P is in some cases not even loaded to original 38 Special pressures. So if your gun is rated for real 38 Special ammo loaded the way it started out being loaded it is OK to use with the weaker +P ammo on the market now.
 
+P ammo requires a four-inch minimum barrel to burn the extra powder. Therefore, in a two-inch barrel the extra powder is burned after the bullet leaves the barrel creating more recoil and making it harder to come back to target.
Bear in mind that I last reloaded pistol ammunition was in the early 80's.
I remember different powders having different burn rates, the larger rifle powders had less surface area on each piece of powder, which weighed more per piece than the smaller, finer pistol powders. I'm using "piece" instead of "grain" to avoid confusion with the word "grain" denoting the weight of the powder. It's clumsier but I am trying for cliarty.
From my ancient reading back in the 70's the finer powder burned faster allowing it to burn away in the time it took for a bullet to travel a pistol barrel's length. Rifle powders burned slower to keep that exploding gas behind a bullet traveling 16" or more of rifle barrel.
This is what seems to me to be a knock on guns like the Draco and the various AR pistols, unless you're reloading, you're using commercial rifle bullets designed to continue burning for as long as it would take a bullet to travel that first 16" resulting in a big fireball at the muzzle of wasted powder.
I don't know if the +P ammo factory ammo just uses a dab more powder than the standard rounds or if they use a different powder altogether, but it seems to me that the burn rate would be, whichever is used, would give a big fireball of wasted powder out of a 2" barrel when they're engineered to potentially travel a 6" barrel.
I used to load a 125 gr JHP round on top of 7 grains of Unique powder for my .357 and it was a healthy round and that Unique powder was almost like dust.
 
I'm really not at all sure I even understand what possible issue there might be. If a particular handgun is not marked as +P suitable it seems the obvious answer is to simply not use +P ammunition?
 
I'm really not at all sure I even understand what possible issue there might be. If a particular handgun is not marked as +P suitable it seems the obvious answer is to simply not use +P ammunition?

understanding comes from knowing that most +P ammo is a hotter load in name only when compared to original 38 special loads. The only reason some ammo is labeled +p is because it is slightly more powerful than the watered down ammo sold as 38 special that is no stronger than the 38 colt it was supposed to replace.
 
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