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Desertdog said:Homeland security chief defends Bush plan, says border eventually will be impenetrable
How's that minefield construction project progressing?
Desertdog said:Homeland security chief defends Bush plan, says border eventually will be impenetrable
...it's just not practical to deport the millions of foreigners in the country illegally.
"The cost of identifying all of those people and sending them back would be stupendous. It would be billions and billions of dollars," Chertoff told Sean Hannity on the Fox News Channel program "Hannity & Colmes" last night.
...we would then be able to send them back at the end of a period of three years or six years.
...I mean, as a practical matter, we've got to identify these people and pull them out of the shadows.
It's clearly temporary, and it clearly envisions people who would have to commit to go back.
If I was an illegal alien, I now know that the leadership of the U.S. lacks the stomach to deport me. Why would I give up a portion of my wages (more pay but now it'd be taxed, likely a wash) when I'd be liable for expenses (medical bills, schooling, insurance, etc.)?
Waitone said:What Chertoff does not understand is an amnesty / work program will defeat the very reason for illegal immigration. The economic value to US business interests is because illegal immigrants work for less than market rates because they are not part of the system. They don't exist on the books hence don't collect other assorted costs associated with above table workers. A working program designed to bring them to the top of the table would defeat the very reason for hiring illegally.
In other words, I don't think you'll see a huge wave of immigrants falling all over themselves to register because the act of registering would dramatically reduce their economic utility. If however they are here to become Americans and get a slice of the American dream, they will register. The great irony is we could create a new massive program of work permits that would fall on its face. . . .just llike all the other immigration initiative of the past.
What needs to be added is ". . . . at the price level being offered." Every worker is its own business. Every business has a breakeven point where all fixed costs are paid and incremental dollars now accumulate. Like it or not we live in a society where there is a breakeven costs that is higher than comparable countries. Costs included in breakeven calculations include taxation, social security, workmans comp, housing, transportation, education, and medical care. Someone above the table includes all these costs in their breakeven calculation. By hiring under the table the employer does not have to foot the bill for a number of the costs that above the table workers have to pay. Employers can then offer a lower rate of employment and a willing worker can be found simply because that worker's breakeven cost is significantly lower and he can still accumulate wealth.Can you integrate the notion that "these are jobs that no one else wants"?
Barring some catastrophic national or international event, that won't be happening anytime soon. The American people are, by and large, fat, dumb and lazy. We have been conditioned to expect government to provide, protect, and insure us prosperity. The people who occupy the Whitehouse and Capitol building simply reflect those attitudes. As far as any activism on local levels goes, it's not likely either. The central bureaucracy has become too powerful and intrusive and will most assuredly override any local action.We are going to need a much tougher President and a much tougher Congress to deal with this or the alternative will be, eventually, a form of vigilante response on a local level.
RealGun said:I doubt if everyone is prepared for seriously dealing with illegal aliens. I believe that would mean that everyone would have to carry proof of citizenship and be prepared to be asked to show it. No racial profiling. Everyone gets carded.
That's a sensitive and frightening prospect to me, because it's possible as the 'gimme' voting constituency rabble increase. I'm 59 now and we nearly have our home paid off. As we go into the fixed income years of retirement, there's gonna be no way we can pay unlimited property taxes. I don't know how many Californians are in the same situation as we are but I'd wager enough to put up a fight.Let's say Prop. XIII were repealed to fund the consequences of illegal immigration. A lot of people would be forced out of their homes by confiscatory tax bills. And then...?
Precisely the reason all hell is breaking out over states like NC which issue DL's using sterling ID's like taxpayer ID numbers (something the DoJ has said to knock off), matricula cards, and bank accounts. NC used to issue a DL with a matricula card (actually you didn't need an ID, you could just sign an affadavit saying you are who you claimed to be). Get the DL and go to Bank of America and open a checking account. DoJ said to fix it so now the scam is BoA takes the matricula card to open a checking account. Then the perp takes the bank account to NC where they issue a DL. It is a scam and for the life of me I don't understand why someone hasn't body slammed NC for this crap.Most people drive, don't they? If one does, one has to carry a driver's license anyway. If you have a valid license, chances are you are legit.
Regulated programs my butt, even the programs do a terrible job of regulating. It’s not uncommon for these people to swap identities with the unregulated crowd. They can work more over time, take more days off, seek medical treatment, file multiple healthcare claims on the same policy, share auto insurance, avoid large deductibles, give false information to police and fail to show up in court.put them into a regulated program – we would know who they are – we would then be able to send them back at the end of a period of three years or six years.
Excellent idea!Those who employ illegal immigrants should be the ones who pay the price of sending them back. Round up costs, housing costs, food costs, legal costs, transportation costs, and then they get to pay the fines.
That's a sensitive and frightening prospect to me, because it's possible as the 'gimme' voting constituency rabble increase. I'm 59 now and we nearly have our home paid off. As we go into the fixed income years of retirement, there's gonna be no way we can pay unlimited property taxes. I don't know how many Californians are in the same situation as we are but I'd wager enough to put up a fight.
Most people drive, don't they? If one does, one has to carry a driver's license anyway. If you have a valid license, chances are you are legit.
TheEgg said:3. The political creatures are doing NOTHING about the issue.
Which leads me to ask, why? The ONLY reason that makes any sense is money. SOMEONE is pushing huge sums of money onto the political creatures, or those who control them, to keep the situation status quo.
Chertof is just an example of one of the political creatures who has been given his orders to not rock the boat, and make sure that the money keeps flowing in to the coffers.
The consequences for the country, of course, do not count.
Master Blaster said:Once a few folks get hit with the $100,000 fine the demand for illegal workers will dry up and people will be turning them in right and left.