Chicago hides officer's records...

[Deanimator]

I read the second city cop site. Wow.

I guess I would say that "if the cop didn't do anything wrong, no complaint would have been filed."

Same logic as "he wouldn't have been arrested if he wasn't breaking the law."

Sarcasm, obviously, but the logic goes both ways. I'm tired of two sets of standards.

Oh, but I'll bet you haven't even seen the GOOD stuff there!

Scroll down through the blog entries until you get to the discussions of despicable coward, Officer Anthony Abbate's savage beating of barmaid Karolyna Obrycka. For every condemnation of Abbate by cops on the blog, you'll probably see ten or more complaints about repeated showings of the video of the beating, and five claims that Abbate is being TOO harshly treated and should NOT be terminated for his gutless, subhuman behavior. Some of that stuff reads like it came off of some far out Islamist website.

 

[GRIZ22]

I have seen that. Instead of posting all the details of what happened, I'll just say that I called the PD to file a complaint against a LEO, and when the Officer came out to talk to me, the first thing he gave me was a phamplet telling about how I would be prosecuted if my claim turned out to be false.


Don't you think anyone should be prosecuted for a false police report? I'm sure the liberal politics in Chicago encourage this.


One thing to remember is that even though they have complaints against them, it does not mean they are legitimate in some cases.

Filing complaints against police are a common tactic to get charges reduced. It's easier to file a false complaint and have the charges plea bargained down for a gulity plea to the reduced charges and not having to exert the manpower to follow it up. Internal Affairs can then spend their time investigating real complaints.

I am not aware of all the problems of Chicago PD. Chicago has a lot of problems and most likely the PD is one of them.

Some of the "police complaints" I am personally aware of:

1. Defendant pled guilty to assault charge on the police officer and then complained the officer had pointed his pistol at him. He was assaulting the officer with a tire iron.

2. Defendant was found guilty of all charges and then fiiled a lawsuit against the officer who broke his nose in order to subdue him. The defendant felt this was excessive force for what he was doing. What was he doing? He was drawing a 357 when the officer told him he was under arrest and the officer (a well trained martial artist) punched the defendant in the face as he was close enough and could do that faster than drawing his weapon.

I agree that the founded complaints should be disclosed and reviewed to see if the punishments were in line with the table of offenses. The problem is most Civil Service laws prohibit the disclosure of punitive personnel actions.

Both extremes in this matter are ridiculous.

 

[Deanimator]

I agree that the founded complaints should be disclosed and reviewed to see if the punishments were in line with the table of offenses. The problem is most Civil Service laws prohibit the disclosure of punitive personnel actions.

In Chicago at least, there's a very big problem with that approach.

Based on the documented activities of the Chicago PD, no thinking, honest individual could POSSIBLY have any confidence in a finding that any particular case was unfounded.

Any assessment of the validity of complaints against the Chicago PD is hampered by the habitual subversion of the disciplinary and justice systems by the Chicago PD.

 

[SkiLune]

Deanimator:

No, I didn't make it that far. That kind of Neanderthal thinking just pisses me off. I've seen it, and experienced it, first hand before.

Its a shame that the 90% of good cops are forced to tolerate the abusive and sick ("badge and gun disease") behaviour of the minority.

Oh well. Its the same everywhere. Today in Manchester NH, a 71 year old guy got beaten up by a cop (he was up for CHIEF OF POLICE) while in City Hall. The old guy was trying to get information on a statute that he was ticketed under -- he parked his car, apparently illegally, on the street near his house. He didn't think it was illegal, so he went to city hall. A clerk couldn't locate the statute, so she called her supervisor who beat the guy.

 

[Deanimator]

Its a shame that the 90% of good cops are forced to tolerate the abusive and sick ("badge and gun disease") behaviour of the minority.

Let's accept for argument's sake that 90% of ALL cops are "good" (not overtly criminal, given to nothing worse than minor fudging of the rules), that doesn't address SPECIFIC police departments.

I have no particular reason to believe that most people join the Rocky River PD to do anything other than have a career enforcing the law. I don't expect them to be morally pure altruists, merely that they reasonably faithfully uphold the law and protect the public welfare in general. To the best of my knowledge, other than possibly targeting young people for tighter enforcement of driving regulations, they have no reputation more remarkable than that.

The same cannot be said of the Chicago PD. It has a reputation going back more than a HUNDRED years, and it's NOT a GOOD reputation. That being the case, it attracts a certain type of individual. By documented evidence, that individual frequently wants to enrich himself through bribery, extortion or outright theft. He wishes to have and exercise power over others, for no other reason than to gratify his own ego. He wishes to be able to use violence against those whom he hates (or just for its own sake) without fear of legal consequences. Those kinds of people have regularly insinuated themselves into the Chicago PD. Rising within the ranks, they hire and promote the same sorts of individuals. After a HUNDRED years, the Chicago PD self-selects for brutality and venality. It's very much like the molestaton scandal in the Catholic Church. ALL priests aren't pedophiles. But SOME are. Like the Chicago PD, the Church in certain areas is led by those who either condone misbehavior, or who view public knowledge of that misbehavior as worse than the misbehavior itself. In such an environment of concentrated corruption, any individual "good" policeman (or priest) is utterly irrelevant. At best, he will look the other way while not overtly committing crimes himself. But that is an endorsement of the corrupt system itself. Obviously neither Father Geoghan nor Officer Abbate were capable of learning a thing via a positive example... or a hundred.

Just as post-war Germany was "de-Nazified", the Chicago PD needs to be "de-thugified". Unfortunately, there isn't ANY sentiment for that within the Chicago PD, either at the top or in the rank and file. The management philosophy of the Chicago PD is perfectly embodied by [soon to be?] ex-Superintendent Phil Cline, who punished murder with a thirty day suspension, sat on an assault and battery case against the Jefferson Tap cops, and allowed the initial prosecution of Tony Abbate as a misdemeanor. As I noted before, if lower ranking police personnel won't turn in their corrupt contemporaries (and they WILL NOT) there are effectively NO "good cops".

Neither is there the slightest desire for REAL reform on the part of Dick Daley. As things stand, he can use the Chicago PD for his dirty work, and leave them twisting in the wind when they're no longer useful to him. If the Chicago PD weren't dirty, he couldn't order it to let his henchmen go when they're arrested for drunk driving while carrying a concealed weapon with the serial number filed off.

And the citizens of Chicago? The idea of honest police whom the law abiding need not fear is simply as alien to them as wearing one's trousers on one's head.

I have absolutely no illusions that the Chicago PD will ever be anything other than an organized crime family, at least until the people who live in Chicago rise up and refuse to continue to be victims. I see no evidence of any such desire on their part. And the repeated reelection of Richard M. Daley is proof positive.

 

[ziadel]

Oh well. Its the same everywhere. Today in Manchester NH, a 71 year old guy got beaten up by a cop (he was up for CHIEF OF POLICE) while in City Hall. The old guy was trying to get information on a statute that he was ticketed under -- he parked his car, apparently illegally, on the street near his house. He didn't think it was illegal, so he went to city hall. A clerk couldn't locate the statute, so she called her supervisor who beat the guy.

That kind of thing just makes me ill. There needs to be special guidelines for sentencing when a LEO does something like this. Times two sounds like a good starting point, but sadly, this guy prolly won't be arrested.

Makes me sad, I'd be a cop if it it wasn't for all these shenanigans.

 

[ilbob]

Sadly, Deanimator has it mostly right about the CPD. I don't know what percentage of the force is NOT actively engaging in misconduct, but I can tell you that close to 0% do anything about it in any meaningful way.

There were stories a few years ago in various papers about how a large number of gang members had infiltrated the ranks of the CPD (much as they have in DC). Was anything ever done? Nope.

The chief of detectives was running a fencing operation. I think the feds got him. You think any of his many henchmen on the force went down?

This won't change until the political culture changes, and there is no sign of change in Chicago. The best we can hope for is that Daley gets indicted, convicted, and sent off to club fed before a democratic president can quash the investigation into his many crimes.

 

[ilbob]

Oh well. Its the same everywhere. Today in Manchester NH, a 71 year old guy got beaten up by a cop (he was up for CHIEF OF POLICE) while in City Hall. The old guy was trying to get information on a statute that he was ticketed under -- he parked his car, apparently illegally, on the street near his house. He didn't think it was illegal, so he went to city hall. A clerk couldn't locate the statute, so she called her supervisor who beat the guy.

I would be willing to bet in that case there will be consequences to the officer involved, probably serious consequences.

You can never forget that all cops are human beings and are subject to the same failures of character we all do. There are just some jurisdictions where those failures have no practical consequences to the miscreant.

I do not expect cops to be saints. None of us are either. I do expect that the same rules of civilized conduct (we call them the law) that applies to the rest of us should apply to those with a badge as well. That is what is sorely lacking in many areas of this country. No matter what you do, there will be some bad cops, just as some times an otherwise law abiding citizen will stray. There needs to be some assurance that they are dealt with appropriately.

 

[Deanimator]

No matter what you do, there will be some bad cops, just as some times an otherwise law abiding citizen will stray. There needs to be some assurance that they are dealt with appropriately.

Unfortunately, there are absolutely ZERO such assurances in Chicago. In fact, the example of Phil Cline demonstrates precisely the opposite.

I've been away from Apartheid Chicago since '86, with only sporadic visits since '99. After the Abbate beating, I started actually reading what's been happening since I left, and even _I_ was shocked. Things aren't going to get better, they're going to get worse, MUCH worse, until there's something that CAN'T be swept under the carpet, like a murder for hire ring in the Chicago PD.

The interesting thing you pick up from http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com is that despite the REPEATED role of video surveillance in catching Chicago cops doing wrong, they seem to be completely oblivious to the microscope under which they now operate. Even AFTER Abbate was caught stomping a woman's head on video, they blithely treated him with incredible deference, arresting him initially without handcuffs, then both protecting him from media exposure and harassing the media covering his arraignment. A day doesn't go by when a cop (or several) doesn't post on that blog how he's either going to stop "protecting" everyone except family members and other cops, how Abbate is getting a raw deal and should keep his job, or more ominously, how they're going to retaliate against, "yuppies", the media, or most recently people from Iowa because of the 5 year sentence a Chicago cop got in Iowa for a battery conviction. They quite literally "don't get it". It appears that their mindset is, "Stop calling me a bully or I'll beat your brains out!" It's positively Soviet in its obtuseness...

 

[Gunpacker]

Regardless of where cops are from, complaints are common when you arrest people daily. I know for a fact that most are made in an effort to "blackmail" PDs and police officers into changing charges, or just to make life difficult for an officer that was legitimately doing a difficult job.
Having seen the beating by the Chicago cop, I can say that I believe the guy should be given the most severe discipline possible. Those do happen.
However think for a second and you will realize that a complainer has nothing to lose for a complaint, and some think they can get a deal this way. Therefore, unwarranted complaints are pretty common.
Example I am absolutely sure of:
Officer stopped 2 middle aged women for running a red light, barely avoiding a terrible accident on a major thoroughfare. Officer ticketed driver. Officers were told that they should let them go with a warning like the officers did in the town they were coming from. When officer said no, officers were called Nazis. Officers were called in when complaint was filed by supervisor. Officers explained that they were as nice as possible and the only imposition on the motorists was the ticket that was issued. With 2 officers testifying, they dismissed the complaint as unwarranted. However that complaint, along with even more egregious ones remains on the officer's record.
IMO, there are a lot of poor officers, but unwarranted complaints don't prove them so. Officers working tough beats are in combat often, and the arrestees, friends and family are usually very unhappy. As long as they are in the PD for bail or jail, might as well fill out a form.
I guess some would not wish cops to do their job. It would be a sorry world to live in if they didn't.
Chicago PD, and all others should give complaints the best investigation possible, discipline where appropriate, and not put unwarranted complaints in an officer's file, IMO.
Imagine yourself in a position where any jerk could make a totally bogus complaint against you that would forever taint your work record.

 

[Elza]

Gunpacker: Imagine yourself in a position where any jerk could make a totally bogus complaint against you that would forever taint your work record.

Just happened where I work. The man was fired over a sexual harassment complaint. He was a cop at the V.A. hospital where I work. (It had nothing to do with him being a VA cop.) Everyone in the place knew the charge was bogus and why it was filed in the first place. But he was fired anyway. I've known him for years and he was a great guy.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Chicago city government sucks.

They control the police department and appoint its leaders.

Those leaders tend to suck, too.

This was always kind of tenuously related to our subject at THR (basically, Chicago always has some connection to gun rights, but this is not a really strong one) so it'll be closed in the morning unless someone comes up with something new to say.

 

[Deanimator]

Chicago PD, and all others should give complaints the best investigation possible, discipline where appropriate, and not put unwarranted complaints in an officer's file, IMO.
Imagine yourself in a position where any jerk could make a totally bogus complaint against you that would forever taint your work record.

And therein lies the heart of the problem. The Chicago PD DOESN'T. The Weems case by itself demonstrates the total bankruptcy of the disciplinary system. The system has been so corrupted that there's no way to know what complaints are valid or invalid. They ALL need to be reexamined by an outside agency, probably the FBI.

I virtually guarantee that this will go on and on. You can be sure you'll be seeing videos of misconduct for a LONG time.

 

[Autolycus]

Well perhaps we will have to start protecting ourselves from criminals who infiltrate police departments and refuse to be subject to the whims of the citizens who pay their salaries.

 

[Deanimator]

Well perhaps we will have to start protecting ourselves from criminals who infiltrate police departments and refuse to be subject to the whims of the citizens who pay their salaries.

You can't help but wonder why they've banned handguns in Chicago, and have no concealed carry. Things could have gone VERY badly for Tony Abbate.

 

[nemoaz]

Records should be released period.

I agree so long as it also included the all criminal records, mental health records, financial records, and complaint records of the complainants and the complainants family, associates, and gang members.

 

[Geno]

Public employee = public records

 

[nemoaz]

Make a public complaint, the defendant has rights even if the defendant is not a scumbag criminal. Some states disclose this info, some redact it but make mention that there is a mental health history, criminal history, or history of false complaints or whatever, or some just blanketly say the complainant has undisclosed credibility issues.

Also, since the average officer probably has a few dozen or more contacts with criminals and hundreds of various types of contacts with law abiding citizens, 10-30 over a career may not be that bad. I've represented both sides on these. Good and bad complaints.

Some criminals and their associates file a formal complaint every time they are arrested. I'd also guess that the majority of those are people who get tickets (hard to imagine in Chicago... but I think they will pull you over if you are doing over a 100-110 on the freeways) and say the officer was "rude". I bet there are also a lot of "you only pulled me over because I'm black/brown/yellow/out of state/driving a Mercedes/whatever" kind of complaints.

To the person that commented that he was warned about making a false complaint, that is a crime in every or almost every state. Making a false statement of any sort is a crime if made to a federal agent or officer.

Of course, I'm also quiet aware of the deeply ingrained corruption in Chicago. So I know why some of you locals are skeptical. I am too.

Still not sure why this has anything to do with firearms. If this article was that Chicago is a haven city for criminal illegal aliens or terrorist muslims, Tecumseh and others would have already cried to the moderators to lock it. I guess the daily cop bash by the aluminum foil heads is always germane.

 

[Deanimator]

To the person that commented that he was warned about making a false complaint, that is a crime in every or almost every state. Making a false statement of any sort is a crime if made to a federal agent or officer.

A few years ago, there were a series of videos on the web of reporters requesting complaint forms from various police departments in Florida. A disturbing number of them showed police attempting to intimidate the reporters into not reporting any sort of misconduct. In multiple instances, police refused to supply complaint forms. One officer put his hand on his firearm when talking to the reporter. Afterwards, one reporter's personal information was posted on a police union(?) website.

I don't have any problem with prosecuting those who file demonstrably false complaints. At the same time, it should be a CRIME to attempt to discourage someone from filing an official complaint through the use of threats and intimidation, or by refusing to supply them with the requisite forms.