Chicago Sues Indiana Gun Store

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Everything I have read about this case would indicate that the FFL was engaged in violations of the law. Has little to do with Indiana and more about the FFL being a jerk.
 
The dealer has been violating the law for several years? Seems as if whats claimed in the article is true the dealer would be shut down. Hmmmm, so the ATF hasn't done any attempted illegal purchases to prove the dealer is selling illegally? Or USAToday is making it up..

Chicago hires a high priced law firm that undoubtly donated to the mayor's campaign and now the law firm makes big money jousting at windmills. Nothing to help the neighborhoods out after the CPD was neutered. The Soros DA is still letting criminals go free and children die. Its the SOP for these types.
 
Well, the Gun Store is on the hook if they sold to people with IL identification. If the buyers faked IDs, then, it's on them. If the buyers were originally IN residents and then moved, well, yawn.
If the firearms were illegally acquired, again yawn.

The probability of research funded y Everytown finding the one IN FFL that has been the one Chicago politicos have been blaming for the last five decades is about that of ice on an Arizona sidewalk in summer.

It would be more in keeping with the preferred practice in Legal to quote chapter and verse, but, given our present source is USA Today, the probability of erroneous journalism is too high to ignore.

Until we have a copy of the charge or suit, we really have nothing concrete to comment upon.
 
I noted the filing was Cook County, IL, not in Indianna. A similar suit was filed years ago against Adventure Outdoors, Smyrna, GA by NYC. The owner, Jay Wallace, had to settle because the suit was filed in NY and his attorneys felt the judges, were stack against him. To lose would have been more onerous than the settlement.
 
I find it hard to believe that this store sells "thousands of crime guns every year."
And that "Studies cited in the lawsuit said that firearms recovered by law enforcement between 2009 and 2016 "consistently rank Westforth as the highest out-of-state supplier of crime guns in the city, responsible for more than 850 recovered crime guns over this period."

So the criminals buy the guns and then leave 850 of them at the scene??

What "studies" where is the data?
 
I'm confused, law suit - suing them, vs, legal charges?

If they have evidence of a violation of the law, then bring charges and the ATF can investigate and shut them down if it can be proven.

This guy may or may not be a legit business, if he is breaking the law, catch him, and take him to court.

If there is no evidence, then, this feels like a "we cant prove anything, so we are going to smear you in the papers" or try to get an out of court settlement (which may be a methodology used by anytown in the past from what I have read)

I believe we have seen other folks, businesses, police, politicians, etc fall under this same microscope in the recent past - court of public opinion, trial by press, misdirection to throw off blame, whether true or not.

just my initial impression

D
 
Rule3 said:
I find it hard to believe that this store sells "thousands of crime guns every year."
And that "Studies cited in the lawsuit said that firearms recovered by law enforcement between 2009 and 2016 "consistently rank Westforth as the highest out-of-state supplier of crime guns in the city, responsible for more than 850 recovered crime guns over this period."

So the criminals buy the guns and then leave 850 of them at the scene??

What "studies" where is the data?
Click to expand...

More likely the guns were recovered due the perp being arrested in possession of said weapon
 
So a gun store is selling to "known straw purchasers" then why weren't they reported to the NCIC? If they were known gun traffickers it would be easy to cut off their legal way to purchase firearms for resale. If the store is following ATF guidelines, and the customers sell felons in Chicago that isn't the stores fault. Once that firearm leaves the door, they don't know what it is going to be used for. This is like suing a Ford dealership for drunk drivers.

Smells more like Lightfoot fishiness to me.
 
I call shenanigans. The city bringing suit against a business in another state for selling guns? It’s an ATF issue or it isn’t. If it is, let it roll, the ATF doesn’t need the mayor’s help, and she should have plenty of issues to tend to within the confines of her own kingdom.

Seems to me this is one of those operations where it’s lots of noise and no substance so she can claim she’s fighting the good fight and when nothing happens or she doesn’t or can’t get the desired result she already has the other side set up for blame.
 
I know the store and the owner. Shopped there for 30yrs.. They do everything by the book and triple check every sale. Tell Mayor Groot to keep her trash in Illinois. Starting Feb 2020 Westforth's changed their hours open from 8am-6pm to open 10am-3pm. Earl told me they need the 5-6 hours a day with the store closed to manage the 4473's and bound book log in's and make sure they're correct. The store is located in Gary, IN and used to be the "Murder capital of the U.S." per capita. A lot of Illinois and Gary's worst shop there. Federal law prevents putting a sign in the store window stating those people can not enter.
 
P5 Guy said:
And have federal "straw purchase" charges been filed on the straw purchasers?
Click to expand...

I understand the issue around the straw purchasers is that most of them are single mothers living on State aid. Locking them out is a bad optic for the local FBI/ATF officers so its allowed to go on.
 
Attached is an article from 2017 from TTAG explaining in large part why Illinois, and Cook County in particular has a crime problem. When criminals know there are few, if any consequences they'll continue their bad behavior. Rather than addressing their failures leadership here points the finger at other states, in this case this gun shop owner. Looks for things to get worse with the elimination of cash bail and more finger pointing.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/crime-illinois-catch-release-justice-system/

https://nypost.com/2021/02/23/illinois-becomes-first-state-to-eliminate-cash-bail/
 
P5 Guy said:
And have federal "straw purchase" charges been filed on the straw purchasers?
Click to expand...

That is my question. If Mayor Lightfoot knows there are known straw purchasers bringing guns into Chicago from this specific shop, why has she not had state police do some investigations and gotten the ATF interested? More than likely, IL prosecutors don't think they can win a criminal case against the gun store.
 
herrwalther said:
More than likely, IL prosecutors don't think they can win a criminal case against the gun store.
Click to expand...

That's the strategy. It's what they did with Adventure Outdoors. Hauled them into civil court in NYC, with NYC judges and NYC jurors. Made them spend lots of money on defense. Hiring a NYC law firm in addition to their own Georgia attorneys. Beat them down with accusations and motions. Keep framing them in the media as the bad guy. In the end, their only defense was to settle out of court, admitting no guilt, and accepting onerous fines and terms & conditions for operating their business.
 
armedwalleye said:
I call shenanigans. The city bringing suit against a business in another state for selling guns? It’s an ATF issue or it isn’t. If it is, let it roll, the ATF doesn’t need the mayor’s help, and she should have plenty of issues to tend to within the confines of her own kingdom.

Seems to me this is one of those operations where it’s lots of noise and no substance so she can claim she’s fighting the good fight and when nothing happens or she doesn’t or can’t get the desired result she already has the other side set up for blame.
Click to expand...

Not being a lawyer myself, I'm a bit confused on this interstate law suit. Is this in a federal court? (I haven't looked). I know, for example, if two people want to get divorced and the one filing is not a resident of the state, then the court won't take it. Learned this issue with my ex wife decades ago when she was jumping from state to state. So I don't think Chicago can sue a business in Indiana courts...and if the business doesn't have stores extending into Illinois, I don't think Chicago can sue them in Illinois courts.

I haven't read up on this to see what court they're trying this in, though, and frankly I'm too tired to be interested enough to do that right now.

Maybe one of our illustrious attorneys on this site can provide an insight on this.
 
P5 Guy said:
Worse than the optic of weeping now single mothers and dead fathers? :(
Click to expand...
I live 20 miles from downtown Chicago. Mothers have no idea where their 11 year olds are at 2a.m.. Card carrying "fathers" are non existent. UNTIL, lawsuits against Police provide a possible windfall for "mourning, grief stricken" parents.
 
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