"Children and Behavior" and petty tyrants

Status
Not open for further replies.

KC

Member
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
430
Location
<fnord>
Interesting essay about parents and schools.

Children and Behavior

First, let me focus on education. Now I’m not going to focus on falling math scores, the Regents recent refusal to raise the bar for math tests (because 2/3 of students failed the exam). We all know about this. Well, if you don’t know how awful the academics are, start paying attention. Those things are awful, but they aren’t damaging to a child (in a psychological sense). A child can learn math at some point. They can learn history and science, too. It may not bode well for our status as a nation, and supplying an educated workforce, but these problems can be overcome with hitting the books. What I want to address is a much more serious problem, that has lasting implications to a child.

Let me first address some anecdotal information regarding my own children’s experience with public school.

When my son was about two and a half, he was identified by a Speech Therapist as being “speech delayed.†This set us on a whirlwind of tests and evaluations to determine what the problem was. I’ve written about this before, but what I have not written about was what led up to us taking him out of public school, when he was 8 years old.

We were living in an upscale suburb of Illinois. David was in the 4th grade. He’d been in “special ed†for all of his schooling, in various school districts throughout the country (California, New Jersey, and Illinois).

His new teacher was a young, plucky thing, about 24 or 25 years old. She had a Special Ed credential. Since I’d been around in the Special Ed area for a while, I knew that Special Ed teachers were generally the cream of the crop. Special Ed teachers take additional course work, that’s much more difficult than the usual Education curriculum requirements. They also get paid more.

David had done well in previous years. He loved most of his teachers and was a willing and obedient student.

But this year David started to have real problems. He was upset quite a bit—a LOT more upset. The best way to describe it is to say that David was stressed out. We thought it might have been because the work was getting harder, and maybe David had reached his intellectual limits (with his diagnosis, we had no way of knowing, and knew that it was possible that this day might come). One morning he had a full-fledged anxiety attack when he remembered he’d forgotten to do a particular assignment. He freaked out and start crying and my attempts to comfort him and calm him had no impact. I told him I’d write a note to the teacher, explaining why he hadn’t been able to do his homework that night. That didn’t calm him either.

He kept telling me that if he didn’t turn in his homework that he’d move to “Level 2†and then he could not go on the field trip the following week. It was a field trip to a museum or something and he was really looking forward to going. The focus in the class had been working on parallel projects, leading up to this field trip visit--so he felt that his efforts would be wasted if he couldn’t go.

In trying to figure out what he was talking about, he explained a little bit more about the “point system†in his classroom.

David had mentioned this points program before, because often on Fridays he would come home with some sort of toy--a cheap, carnival type toy, which he purchased with his “points.†I assumed, because I work in the field of Instructional Design, that this was a rewards program.

I couldn’t have been more wrong.

When David explained it a little more, I called the teacher the next morning to get more information from her. This led to Kim and me making an appointment to go in to meet the teacher. When we arrived, not only was the teacher in the room, but the Principal and the school Social Worker were sitting in. We guessed we’d hit a nerve in the way we’d requested the meeting (and I was damn happy that Kim was there with me, otherwise they would have had me outnumbered. As an aside, NEVER go alone; always take someone with you, mother and father, or grandmother, etc., as an additional witness. Hire an attorney if you have to. NEVER go alone.)

The teacher began telling us about the program. She told us it was a “Boy’s Town†program. It goes like this:

Each child is given a half sheet of paper in the morning. It had a grid, with 15 minute increments, representing the entire school day. This was your point’s sheet.

On the board there was a list of actions and their associated points. If you remembered to say “thank you†you got 1 point. If you brought in your homework on time, you got 2 points, etc. At the end of the week you took your accumulated points to the point store and you got to buy something. I had no problem with that--so far, so good--a reward system (not unlike Gold Star programs we’re all familiar with).

However, there was a flip side to the point system and that is that it was also a punishment system. The points worked both ways. If you didn’t remember to say thank you, you had a point deducted. If you forgot your homework, you got 2 points deducted. If during the last 15 minutes you had not been paying attention (according to the teacher) or you were fidgeting, etc., you lost points. There were others, such as talking out of turn, which had minor deductions. There were other, more serious deductions, but you get the idea.

If you managed to stay within a particular point spread each week you stayed at your current “level.†There were 4 levels, each with specific rights and privileges. At level 4 you got recess (play time) each day, both at the morning and lunch period. You also had other benefits, but for the most part, these weren’t major. At level 3 you still got recess, but you were denied other classroom rights. At level 2, you were on a type of suspension. You lost your recess period and had to stay in all day. You got to have lunch, but you couldn’t play afterwards. At level 1, the most severe, you were denied all play periods, were denied roaming privileges in the classroom (and weren’t allowed to play with some of the classroom activities, such as the computer, which these types of children really love). At both levels 1 and 2, you didn’t go along on class field trips.

David, who had been at level 4 for the first couple months of school, had gotten in trouble for something, that put him at level 3. His panic attack about his homework assignment was because he was worried he would be dropped to level 2 (and prohibited from going on the field trip) and since his points had been reduced over the last several weeks, he’s was scared to death this was going to happen. Since he was in a sort of meltdown, death spiral, he was unable to stay focused, was fidgeting more, all brought about by the stress of the program. The program itself was causing his disobedience and lack of focus problems.

The points for each child were posted on the wall chart. Each child’s points, as well as their level status, were displayed for all to see. When Kim and I inquired about this public display of grades (which is illegal) we were told by teacher and Principal, “Oh, no. This doesn’t apply to that law. These aren’t grades.†We got nodding heads from the Principal and Social Worker, assuring us that these weren’t grades. They might be used as the BASIS for grades, but they weren’t the grades themselves.

So, they’d found a weasel clause, and since these weren’t grades, they were under the radar of civil suits.

But there’s a little more to this that is important (and sorry this is taking so long to explain). These half sheets of paper, broken into these 15 minute intervals, were kept on the corner of the child’s desk at all times. Every 15 minutes, the teacher would go around to each child and either add or subtract points for their behavior for the last 15 minutes. If the child was mainstreamed in any other classes, left the classroom for lunch or recess, or to the bathroom, they were required to carry this piece of paper with them. If they forgot to take it with them, they’d have points deducted. Their other teachers and aids were required to participate in this program, and keep track if their progress, every 15 minutes. (Only the Special Ed children were involved in this program.)

This would mean that every minute of the day, no matter where they were, no matter if they were playing, peeing, or doing math, they were under constant scrutiny. There was never a lapse, never a break, and never a time when a kid could jump around, skip, throw a ball, or chat with his friends, without the ever watchful eye of Big Brother…err... the teachers and staff.

NO WONDER! David had an anxiety attack.

There’s more.

I asked about how the other kids were handling the strain and asked if David was the only child who appeared to be suffering under the strain. I was assured that everyone was handling it just fine, it was just MY son who was having a problem. And this was new—David hadn’t shown any problems with the program before.

So I walked over to their little classroom shame board, and took a look at the scores. There were a couple children in the “warning†zone of level 3, but most of the kids were at level 3 or higher (like David was). There was one little girl who was at level 1. I asked about her. I asked how she’d gotten at level 1. “Oh, well she has some real behavior problems. We’ve been working with her mother, but she has difficulty sitting still in the classroom.â€

Before I go on, let me just say that David’s Special Ed classroom was NOT a classroom full of juvenile delinquents. These were the misfit children who had some sort of learning disability. They didn’t have delinquency or violent behaviors, they were fidgety, restless, hearing impaired, sight impaired, or developmentally handicapped or delayed. A classroom of about 25-30 kids (some partially mainstreamed) who couldn’t completely handle the school outside of the Special Ed walls.

So, back to this one little girl. There had been a field trip a few weeks before. She hadn’t been allowed to go. When all her classmates were walking out the door to get on the bus for their adventure to the nature preserve or the zoo (whatever it was), this little girl had to stay home, in the classroom, all by herself—well, except for the teacher’s aid that stayed behind to watch her. Her mother had been aware of this, of course, and was doing her best to comply with this oh-so-effective, and oh-so-scientific method of behavior modification.

SHE WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD!

Her sin was that she was unable to remember to say please and thank you to the goddamn Gestapo. She couldn’t sit still and remain docile when she was supposed to and she liked to jump around and expend some energy, and that didn’t fit in with their utopian fantasies of drug laden, docile drones. She was a kid with SPIRIT and they were doing everything in their power to BREAK her spirit.

Those [fornicating] bastards. edited for automatic censor

We had David taken off this little mind ???? they were playing with the kids and reminded them that 20 or 30 years prior adults were working under similar conditions (in sales hot houses) and were collapsing. Adults weren’t able to maintain the constant pressure and were either dying of strokes and heart attacks or they went completely nuts. But kids were being put under these same pressures. Kids, mind you, that did not have the delinquency and dangerous behaviors the program was designed to address, such as those children under State care in Boy’s Town. This program at Boy’s Town was designed for violent children and this was a “last chance†before juvvy.

Think about what that would be like. Think about your boss having a little sheet of paper on the corner of your desk. Every 15 minutes, he checks to make sure you are behaving and working the way you are supposed to. Imagine going out to lunch and having to take your timecard with you, and having the cafeteria staff able to write you up if you laughed too loud, or didn’t say thank you after you’d paid for your tray. Yawn? 2 points deducted. Personal phone call? 5 points deducted.

At first, when we told them David was no longer to participate with their little reindeer games, they told us they’d get back to us, after they’d had a chance to figure out how one child, in a classroom of 25, would not be under the same requirements. We clarified that little nonsense immediately. “I don’t think you understand. We are not ASKING you to consider our request. We are TELLING you, that right now, as of this minute, David is not going to be included in this program. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. IS THAT CLEAR?â€

That was a little clearer. They made their usual smug, holier than thou, “another whacky parent we have to deal with†face and nodded their heads in agreement.

I could go on and on with other anecdotal stores, that happened to us, and other parents. But suffice to say, that they lied. THEY LIED. And if that isn’t clear, or you think this is an usual situation, you would be wrong. THEY LIE and they lie a lot. I called a few of the other parents I knew and they, too, reported that their kid had been acting strange recently—that they were frequently stressed out, emotional, and acting like something was wrong. Similar stores of crying about homework, unable to sleep, moodiness were common reports. They were unaware of how the points program worked and planned to call the school the next day to have their kid removed from it, too.

I heard that the Special Ed teacher was eventually fired. The Asst. Principal had taken over her classroom, until a permanent teacher could take her place. I have no idea what happened—I don’t really care, I just hope that teacher is never in front of a classroom again, responsible for the lives of children.

I’ve never forgotten about that little girl who didn’t get to go on that field trip. The day I heard about, I cried for about an hour. I couldn’t understand how adults, who were supposed to be qualified and knowledgeable about developmentally challenged kids, could do something so horrible, mean, and spiteful to a child. I sobbed for her. She’ll never get over that—being abandoned and punished for being a kid. She’ll probably always wonder why she has feelings of anxiety and distance from her classmates and a suspicious lack of trust for authority figures.

But, they’ll probably just put her on Ritalin, as they do with so many other children like her, so she won’t notice, or care. If they can’t break their spirit by brainwashing, there are always the drugs.

There are a couple more lies, that unless you seek out the truth, you will easily miss. Start asking other parents about their experiences with the school. Ask them if their kid is on Ritalin or if a teacher ever recommended it (or a school nurse or social worker). If you have a boy, and he is being recommended to attend speech therapy, physical ed assistance, or any other type of “special†services†start asking around. What you will discover, if you really start inquiring, is that you are not alone. Just about every parent you will talk to will have some experience with this.

One of the comments people make when they visit our house is, “your kids are so quiet.†They are really amazed by this. Our kids talk in calm voices. They sit together and laugh and play. They watch TV and chatter, but they are reasonably quiet about it. They go outside and rough house, they knock each other around quite a bit, and they have their moments of energy expending. They’re KIDS. Kids do that. However, one of the most remarkable things about homeschool kids is that they aren’t like tightened springs, ready to BOING the minute they leave the school. If your kid comes home from school and is loud, bouncing off the walls, full of energy, talkative, emotional, moody, or depressed, etc., it is because the school is ????ing with their heads. That is not a normal mode of behavior, on a regular basis, for children. They should be engaged in school, exercised at play time to expend some energy, and they should be emotionally and intellectually engaged to exhaust their brains. If that isn’t happening—if they a bored, controlled, unable to wiggle or play, talk or laugh, they are going to get home and EXPLODE. Which is why, you might think our kids (or homeschool kids, in general) are sooooo quiet. They aren’t quiet. That’s NORMAL. And if your kid wasn’t being abused all day long, your kid would be calm and happy, too.

Start talking to other parents--especially parents with boys. If the school tells you your kid needs speech therapy (be honest, you know if your kids has real problems), tell them to ???? off. If they start telling you that your son is below the class average, ask if that is the girls and boys or just the boys (reading ability, hand writing skills, etc. anything that requires small motor skills and the ability to sit quietly for extended periods). Then ask other parents in the classroom if they’ve had similar discussions. If the school recommends that your child take drugs, such as Ritalin, tell THEM to take it. Best case, GET YOUR KID OUT OF THERE.

Teenage angst problems are NOT NORMAL. There are early warning signs that the teenage years are going to be difficult, but most children (upwards of 90%) do NOT have parent issues when they are teenagers. For most, healthy teenagers, there is some minor separation anxiety issues, but most kids rely quite heavily on their parents during these years, because they are learning how to become adults, and recognize and respect their parents as role models. Problems left unchecked will result in tenage problems—they are existing problems that will be magnified in the teenage years. If someone says to you, “Oh, that’s normal teenage rebellion†keep that person as far away from your kid as you can, and start doing some serious soul searching to figure out what has happened to this kid, that has been ignored.

And quit with the Ritalin or anything like it. Get your kid OUT of the school that needs him to be medicated to be docile. That is NOT normal.
 
(continued from above)

But BE CAREFUL. Be very, very careful. The school has no qualms about bringing in the heavy arm of the State. You think you can refuse to have your child on Ritalin? Nope. You cannot. If the school decides you are not acting in your child's best interests, the school social worker makes a few phone calls, and you are put under watch from Child Protective Services. One of their Brown Shirts will show up and have a little talk with you, attempting to convince you that you should not refuse this. If you continue to refuse, expect to end up in court, and have your child supervised and REQUIRED to take the drug (even if your child shows complications with the drug), by court order. Once under a court order, you cannot make any changes in your child's education, without first getting permission from a judge.

Better yet, if your kids are small, NEVER let them go hear a public school and avoid all the potential future hassles and infringments. Think I'm exaggerating? I'm not. Start paying attention. This is happening over and over, all over the country, every single day. The number of children being given Ritalin (or similar) is increasing 15% per year. If you have a boy, you are a target, because your boy will not be able to function in a girl-focused classroom, where success is determined by how well you can conform and sit still.

These people are NOT your friends. They will do anything, and I mean anything, to maintain their little tyranny over parents and children.

And I am fully aware that I sound like a nut case, one post away from the looney bin. But I do not care what you think, if you think that. I am SICK OF HAVING PEOPLE WRITE TO ME ABOUT THE PROBLEMS THEY ARE HAVING IN SCHOOL. I am sick of having EVERY PARENT I KNOW with a male child being told they will have to "hold back" their kid or get the special services so he can "catch up" with the other kids. What they are NOT telling you, is they have that same, damn conversation with every other parent of male children. I am tired of having parents write to me about the speech therapy, behavior modification, or drug recommendations they've received from the Special Ed department. I am even more tired of reading about another travesty of justice, another violation of parent and child privacy, and an idiot of the court mandate that children be force fed the bull???? and medication that is being passed around.

I will risk sounding like a whack job if it prevents ONE child, ONE!, from being abused.

I did not do anything about that little girl that was left behind that day when her friends went on that field trip. Shame on me! I didn't call her mother. I didn't warn her. Well, I'm not going to do that again. I will not sit quietly and discuss these issues rationally and calmly, trying to explain to other parents that you may want a "second opinion." I do not want to see the faces of more parents who are dreadfully worried that there is something wrong with their child. Do you know what telling a parent that there something WRONG with their kid does to them? I do. I've been there. And I've talked to hundreds of other parents who went through the same damn thing. BECAUSE THE SCHOOL LIES!
_____________________________________________

"If a foreign government had imposed this system of education on the United States we would rightly consider it an act of war."

I am sooo happy Ritalin wasn't around when I was going through my 12 years of public training. There were 2 teachers that I liked, a few that I tolerated, and detested the rest. From 1st grade on I would have been doped to the gills with psychoactive pharmaceuticals that can do scary things to adult psyches, and nauseatingly terrible things to developing personalities.

I want to see any and all grade school teacher and bureaucrat who reccomends that any child be administered this sort of psychoactive without posessing a valid PHD in psychology be removed from their positions. With lots of gratuitous energy. I need to work hard now, because if/when I have kids, sure as Jane Fonda is a traitor, my children will not be subjected to the public school system.

[/Rant]
 
I’ve never forgotten about that little girl who didn’t get to go on that field trip. The day I heard about, I cried for about an hour. I couldn’t understand how adults, who were supposed to be qualified and knowledgeable about developmentally challenged kids, could do something so horrible, mean, and spiteful to a child. I sobbed for her. She’ll never get over that—being abandoned and punished for being a kid. She’ll probably always wonder why she has feelings of anxiety and distance from her classmates and a suspicious lack of trust for authority figures.

Good Grief. If that's this guy's idea of life-altering trauma, I hope he stays in the bubble.

The points system instituted by the school sounded just fine to me. The Level 1 girl sounds like she can't act properly in public. I wouldn't take a kid to a museum who would act up either.

Then again, I wasn't there.
 
Guns? Don't be silly, you know you can't have guns in school. :)

Now, repeat after me...schools bad, police bad, government bad...bad, bad, bad.

There will be a quiz tomorrow.

John
 
Schools, Police and the Govt. arn't bad in and of themselfs. Its the people who use them for their own selfish goals!
Hell, I liked School. It was the only place where I got to sit next to pretty girls and they couldn't leave.
I love the Police. They come and stop the pretty girls Boyfriend from killing me.
The Govt! They just shipped out the Boyfriend to Iraq, sooo......

:evil:
 
So they set rules for the kids and expect them to follow said rules. When they don't follow the rules they are punished, stop the music! We are expecting kids to take responsibility for their actions!?!?! The Horror! Why that might lead to them being upstanding citizens who take responsibility for their actions! We wouldn't want that!
 
But BE CAREFUL. Be very, very careful. The school has no qualms about bringing in the heavy arm of the State. You think you can refuse to have your child on Ritalin? Nope. You cannot. If the school decides you are not acting in your child's best interests, the school social worker makes a few phone calls, and you are put under watch from Child Protective Services. One of their Brown Shirts will show up and have a little talk with you, attempting to convince you that you should not refuse this. If you continue to refuse, expect to end up in court, and have your child supervised and REQUIRED to take the drug (even if your child shows complications with the drug), by court order. Once under a court order, you cannot make any changes in your child's education, without first getting permission from a judge.
Absolutely, positively, categorically not true.

My wife is dealing with a child right now who has been diagnosed as autistic by our local Ritalin-slinging quack (the doctor all the parents take their kids to see, because she'll diagnose whatever you want.)
He's not autistic.
He hears voices, sometimes more than one at a time. You can sit and watch him as he does his work, turning his head to look at someone who isn't there and saying things like "No! I'll get in trouble!" According to the best guesses of everyone who works with him, including a former psychiatric nurse, he's a paranoid schizophrenic. His parents don't want to believe that, however, so no one is allowed to approach his case from that angle. No meds, no treatment, nothing but an Autism-based environment.

Got another kid in the class where I work whose dad keeps popping him on and off the medications, seemingly at random, for a few days at a time. We've asked him over and over just to make a decision and either leave the kid unmedicated or medicated rather than this constant state of half-withdrawal, but we have zero influence. We certainly have absolutely no authority to force anyone to do anything.
 
This would mean that every minute of the day, no matter where they were, no matter if they were playing, peeing, or doing math, they were under constant scrutiny. There was never a lapse, never a break, and never a time when a kid could jump around, skip, throw a ball, or chat with his friends, without the ever watchful eye of Big Brother…err... the teachers and staff.


I'm sorry people, but this is not about responsibility. This is about sickness.
Whoever came up with this one is a control freak with possible voyeuristic inclinations to boot.

I'm no pshychiatrist, just an armourer.:)
 
Today the children, tomorrow the adults. Don't worry, it's all in the hands of the "experts." They know best; they'll tell you that. They have the degree to prove it, given to them by someone exactly like themselves.

Wonder how the Founding Fathers managed to get along without experts. Today most of 'em would be in anger management classes.
 
Obviously some of you do not have children.

These rules are made for the benefit of the school, not the children.

This is no different than any other mala prohibitum law. Actually, its worse, because children this age need to wiggle and run around and talk and make noise at least to some degree.

If someone did that to my kid, I would be beyond angry, I would be fighting the limits of my self control.

I had a few teachers like this - petty tyrants who tried to shame me because I was not what they thought I should be. I still remember every time my 4th grade teacher read my grade aloud and derided me because someone in the program I was in got the grade I got.

When my mild mannered, bible studying, rule following model citizen father found out what the teacher was doing (because he did it to our next door neighbor too), he was ready to tear the guy apart.

Petty tyrants in your fast food job suck. Petty tyrants that emotionally scar your kid are deserving of severe violence.

clarification: Just because someone deserves violence, does not mean I intend to administer it.
 
The authorities encourage the kids to "Just say 'NO!'"; but not to their mainstream drug supplier -- those same authorities.

The biggest purveyor of drugs in America is the school nurse.
 
Last edited:
I'm with Pendragon.

Sure, kids need limits, guidance, supervision, discipline, etc, but ferchrissakes, they're only 8 years old. They don't sit still, their attentions spans vary. That idjit teacher's/sick school administration's uber-contorl environment is just plain wrong. 25-30 kids in a special ed class? Sounds about 2X too big to me - how many wardens, er, teachers?

Crap like that makes adults 'go postal' when they realize that that kind of work environment isn't disciplined, it's abusive, and to what end? Then they get uber-pissed, try to regain control of their lives, and then they get even.

So tell me again why some of you think it's appropriate for children?
 
brings to mind.."mein camp".i dont see how showing the other students how good or how bad a particular student is- would have ANY positive effect whatso ever.i see it as creating mistrust..embarrassment..and ultimatly silent rage(the kids is afraid to express his anger and it just builds)
 
Sure, kids need limits, guidance, supervision, discipline, etc, but ferchrissakes, they're only 8 years old. They don't sit still, their attentions spans vary.
The program that is in place is an indictment of the failure of the teachers and administration to employ a curriculum which holds the kid's attention and encourages them to learn.
 
My dad is a primo example of the outcome of this article. I am sure that he would have an aditional 30 IQ points if his parents hadnt been convinced that he needed drugs. All that in the 1960's! Now I am left "holding the hand" of my 48yr old dad in some basic everyday yet slightly technical things, like balancing his checkbook and setting the time on the VCR. :mad:

My sister was in Special Ed as well. At least she had people who would work with her.:mad:

The more I read about the Department of Government Training, the more I want my kids (someday) to be homeschooled and never set foot inside of a government school. (and I graduated HS in 2001!)
 
Hi
I just want to say that my son was placed in one of these programs with learning disabilitys.....ie....kids who have emotional problems....he was drugged (Paxil) at only 8 years old and from my view these programs are dangerous ....the so called teachers are ego based....and hold alot of power...just try and disagree with one....
My situation was unique in that it was a divorce situation and his mom is a flaming liberal......believes everything that the shrinks tell her....as far as I am concerned Psychologists are pimps and panderers for the pharmaceutical industry and they prey on our children! I am not a fan of these programs for behavior modification....we need to teach our children how to handle their energy, exercise is best to burn off exess energy......not drugs! If they are drugged and cant experience emotions how will they ever learn to handle them?
 
Sounds like someone is applying a good idea way too far. The "Boystown" model isn't bad and teaches basic steps to learn social skills. For example:

To greet someone:
1. Maintain eye contact.
2. Say "hello" or "It's nice to meet you"
3. Shake the person's hand if offerred.

Something to that degree.

It is to be used in a DEVELOPMENTALLY APPROPRIATE context. The disciplinary measures stated in this post are fine for adolescents, but NOT 8 year olds.

Drugs aren't the answer to everything. They are, however, almost essential to controlling some disorders such as Bipolar. If you you can be miraculously cured of such as disorder overnight without any assistance from a stabilizer then the fault lies not with the drug, but with those who are diagnosing......

In my state (PA) anyone can refuse medication over the age of 14 and those who are prescribed meds under that age must have the consent of a parent/guardian or a court order! Schools unltimately do not make the call.

Paxil is a relatively safe medication. Much more so than Tylenol (which is much more toxic). It is an antidepressent and does not cause apathy. HOWEVER..........Paxil is used in the case of major depression or social anxiety disorder. If a child has depressive symptoms due to a divorce or environmental stress then it is classes as an "Adjustment Disorder". Adjustment Disorders do NOT need medication. They just need time and some support. Someone likely did a poor assessment and screwed up.

Ritalin doesn't cause kids to be drones either. It is a stimulant. In normal kids it wires them. In other words, it MAKES them hyper! In kids with ADHD it slows them down. If they are too slow then the dosage is way too much.

Don't be afriad of behavior mod. Behavior mod is what we have been doing for years. Good kids get an allowance. Bad kids get a swat on the backside. It's when people in authority take it too far that parents need to be educated enough top fight for what's right and not what the school says.

Educators are teachers. Not clinicians. They do, however, have their hands full. I don' think all of them mean to be malicious.
 
Saw the original post on MrsDuToit's site earlier-

Followed a link from Dr Pournelle. The version here was edited for the high road, leaving out the lady's salty language. Thought it more authentic and heartfelt with the ... seasoned language.
 
And guns?

That's not very hard to figure out.

I've experienced a lot of what KC relates here. Most of it is not that big a deal. Kids will bounce back from most of this but I don't include being stolen from your family to be among those. :fire: :fire: :fire:
 
Psychologists are pimps and panderers for the pharmaceutical industry and they prey on our children

Inaccurate statement. Psychologist are not medical doctors and are prohibited from prescribing medicines of any kinds. I believe you were referring to psychiatrists.

I have worked with 5 y/o in an after-school daycare program and with pre-teens and teens who were dually diagnosed, meaning they are both abused and developmentally disabled (either physically, emotionally, or mentally). Why am I telling you this, because I know that small children can't sit still, even when they know their entire recess or play time in the gym hinges on being quiet for 30 seconds. They don't have the cognitive ability to rationally and logically plan out their actions. Yes, they understand consequences, but only to a limited degree. They understand the effects, not necessarily the cause and effect. Of course, as children age, this cognitive ability increases, which is why we see better behavior in older children.

The other job taught me that in a points system (which was used for these kids), not getting the points is punishment enough. You don't need to take them away. And scrutinizing every last second of their day is counter-productive. Focus on the biggies. Reward the good behavior and it will be repeated. Punish the very bad behavior, but don't punish the neutral behavior. These boys would often throw physically violent temper tantrums. For this they were punished. But they would not have points taken away because they forgot to say thank you or brush their teeth at night. They just wouldn't get their points.

The behavior in that story is oppressive and crushing and teaching the children that what comes naturally to them is bad, bad, bad. Is that what we want to teach our children?

I will be homeschooling our children when they arrive.
 
(The following post is absolutely true in Illinois, which is the biggest nanny state I know. I believe it is absolutely true in all 50 states, but I could be wrong about that, so ymmv.)

Some of you clearly didn't read that article. It's pure nonsense. Jimpeel, the biggest purveyor of drugs in America is the school nurse? The school nurse can't give your kid an aspirin unless you sent it to school along with written permission! The school nurse "purveys" absolutely NOTHING.
Nada.
Multiply the number of pills your kid takes times 24, add the number of years your kid has taken the medication, and divide by zero. That's the number of medications the school nurse has ever prescribed or otherwise given to children without the express permission or direction of the parent. The ONLY thing the school nurse does as regards medication is to pass out the medication the parents send to school. Often, the school nurse thinks such medication is unnecessary (I know, because I've TALKED to the school nurse instead of taking the word of some unknown writer who claims to know what she thinks) but that's not her call to make and she knows it.

Similarly, a teacher who suggests specific medications or even "diagnoses" a child by telling the parent he suspects a specific dysfunction such as ADD, ADHD or the like is in BIG trouble. Jobs can be and are lost over such things.


Stealth101, reading between the lines of your post, it's clear to me that you have no reason to blame the school for anything. It's your ex-wife who decides your kid has to take such-and-so medications, isn't it? In other words, your case clearly disproves this silly article.
That said, if you don't believe in drugs (and I'm with you there, but I can't seem to talk the parents into seeing it my way) and you don't believe in behavior modification, what DO you do? You don't reward good behavior or punish bad behavior? I do.
 
David

I haven't posted here in a while (sorry), but just in case this wasn't clear, Connie is my wife, and was posting about our son.

It may interest you folks to know that since we took David out of that public school hellhole, his life has improved, and so has his education. He reads books constantly, whereas before his reading was confined to comics. His Math skills have been tested at two grade levels above his age group -- the list goes on and on. Most of all, his behavior has changed for the better. He's more self-reliant, is less prone to submit to bullying, and can talk quite knowledgeably on current topics (his favorite rant topic is estate taxes).

His sense of responsibility is unbelievable -- but then again it always was, until public school started undermining it.

In fact, only two weeks ago, I gave him his first shooting lesson, where before he was terrified of guns. The Saddam target was riddled, and all center-mass. Now I get pestered all the time to go shooting.

As for the "discipline is everything" crowd, you're full of it.

You don't have to pump kids up with addictive drugs, and you don't need to monitor and grade behavior every few minutes, to get respectful and obedient kids.

You just need to treat them like human beings.

And as a previous commenter said, the Boys' Town model is an abomination when inflicted on small children -- hell, it barely works for problem adolescents. Good grief, that's a prison regimen -- and remember, the teacher was later fired, so someone else thought the same.

And now for a quick (non-) commercial break:

Remember, November 19th is National Ammo Day. Buy 100 rounds or more.

Regards to all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top