cracked butt
Member
When I saw the topic, I had a whole slew of ideas to 'put to paper' but Jungle has pretty much outlined my views perfectly.
China shifting out of dollars ???
- Thread starter Waitone
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Waitone
Member
Anytime fed.gov changes its publicity policies alarm bells go off. Buckets of information are indeed available and to those who live in those buckets nothing changes. What does change is Joe and Martha Sixpack no longer have access that that figure since M3 is the single number used to portray the state of the money supply. And we all know how our illustrious media love to have one number to pound.
I think the FED dropped the M3 figure because it is about to do some things that will raise questions by Joe and Martha. Similar situation at the end of the Clinton administration when relevant agencies announced changes to the way inflation and unemployment figures were derived. No reason was given, just that changes were implemented. Bush after taking office did nothing to revert those changes. The cynical side of me is ever alert to government games and those changes to simple, key, and highly publicized figures stuck me as questionable. . . .just like I question the reason for stopping publication of a figure used since creation of the FED.
I'll admit to being paranoid. Don't mean I wrong, just means I'm paranoid.
I think the FED dropped the M3 figure because it is about to do some things that will raise questions by Joe and Martha. Similar situation at the end of the Clinton administration when relevant agencies announced changes to the way inflation and unemployment figures were derived. No reason was given, just that changes were implemented. Bush after taking office did nothing to revert those changes. The cynical side of me is ever alert to government games and those changes to simple, key, and highly publicized figures stuck me as questionable. . . .just like I question the reason for stopping publication of a figure used since creation of the FED.
I'll admit to being paranoid. Don't mean I wrong, just means I'm paranoid.
Joejojoba111
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Hmm, silver lining - massive crippling debt, what do you do? Follow Germany's lead in Versailles reparations, just print more money! Rampant inflation, this means that all those pensions are suddenly manageable, because they are 1/100 of their former value. The economic crisis of the baby-boomers is avoided!
lol,
lol,
Anyone who thinks China is a communist country should do a little more study. They still have the red flags as window dressing, but in reality they are more capitalistic than we are.
The government debt, I believe , will largely be brought to manageable levels by reductions in the so called benefits of social programs. In much the same way as GM as had to reorganize and shed some of their pension programs to survive, the government already realizes that SS and other programs are a dead end street.
People who have not saved for their own retirement will be hurt by this, but even now the SS administration is telling 25 year olds that a lifetime of paying into the program has a zero expectation of payout.
All the worlds economies are now somewhat intertwined and it is a mistake to think that the Chinese can thrive without us, and we rely on them to provide a market for our goods too. Only capitalistic countries will be able to compete in the long run for economic freedom, the more deeply mired in socialism a country becomes, the less competitive it will be in every way.
The government debt, I believe , will largely be brought to manageable levels by reductions in the so called benefits of social programs. In much the same way as GM as had to reorganize and shed some of their pension programs to survive, the government already realizes that SS and other programs are a dead end street.
People who have not saved for their own retirement will be hurt by this, but even now the SS administration is telling 25 year olds that a lifetime of paying into the program has a zero expectation of payout.
All the worlds economies are now somewhat intertwined and it is a mistake to think that the Chinese can thrive without us, and we rely on them to provide a market for our goods too. Only capitalistic countries will be able to compete in the long run for economic freedom, the more deeply mired in socialism a country becomes, the less competitive it will be in every way.
And the traitors in Washington can, a few months, or years, down the road say;
"We didn't know ..."
"We did not anticipate ...."
"No one imagined that ..."
"Who could have predicted ..."
"We did not expect ..."
... etc
We know, "it was a big mistake". "They made some bad decisions".
etc
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"We didn't know ..."
"We did not anticipate ...."
"No one imagined that ..."
"Who could have predicted ..."
"We did not expect ..."
... etc
We know, "it was a big mistake". "They made some bad decisions".
etc
--------------------------------------------
http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
On the whole, I agree with you. However, we're talking about the decision-makers in China, not the population as a whole. If 99% of the population are capitalists but the guys with the guns are hard-line Maoists, the decisions the nation makes with regards to economic warfare will be from the perspective of a communist.
Now, what I'm less sure about is how deeply freedom and capitalism has 'corrupted' the leadership. Do they see it as benefiting them to have a good economy? Remember, their solution to riots is to kill the rioters, so I don't see public outcry as being the motivating factor it is in the West.
Mike
Manedwolf
member
LAK said:
That, and also the revisionist history. As in:
War college military analysts, 2003: "If you do that, bad things A and B are likely to happen."
Administration, 2006: "We had no way of knowing that bad things A and B could happen."
:banghead:
longeyes
member
Chinese capitalism has a different flavor. For one thing these guys are nationalists, not just "Communists." China has no problem with stealing technology and any intellectual property it can get its hands on. Sure, they are businessmen; they are also predatory. We need to wise up.
The suppression of the M3 data by the Fed is indeed troubling. What happened in Argentina comes to mind, along with the SHTF thread that details the what-ifs.
http://www.buildanark.net/argentinean.html
telomerase
Member
China was very capitalist...
before FDR wrecked their monetary system in the 1930s.
Chinese taxpayers have been holding up the dollar for years. I'm sure they're tired of it.
before FDR wrecked their monetary system in the 1930s.
Chinese taxpayers have been holding up the dollar for years. I'm sure they're tired of it.
Borachon
Member
Possibly true...but ask yourself this....do you work in an industry that people can do without? Are you a travel agent or a new car dealer? Or does your business sell insurance or sell houses? Do you work in a factory that makes "knick knacks" that people buy? If so..then you will feel DIRECT effects when people stop buying YOUR stuff.
OR do you sell a vital good? Like food or gasoline? You still aren't safe. When less money comes to people who DO make 'knick knacks' (your customers in other words) then they aren't going to be able to purchase what YOU sell. When your customers suffer, then you will suffer.
Bank on it.
Borachon
Member
Suppression of the data isn't in and of itself troubling. Numerous explanations for that...none of them very supportive of the idea of Democracy of course, but not necessarily the end of the world either.
What IS troubling is the date "coincidence" which corresponds to a switch in Iran to Euros for oil purchases. Not many options exist now for stopping their move and protecting our economy. War is actually the best one available. All the other options would demand a reduction in our lifestyle.
Sucks to be them, in other words.
Malone LaVeigh
Member
Actually, the "best" option is to have Israel do the dirty work. I'm sure it's being worked on.
longeyes
member
.
Suppression of information by the Gov't should give us all pause. Suspicion is best. Troubling is an understatement.
Sir Aardvark
Member
Since the US is funding China's massive Socio-Economic boom, I really don't see them as seriously contemplating shaking-the-tree.
The US is still the Big-Kid-on-the-Block, so I expect China will continue feeding our Wal-Mart addiction for years to come.
Also, China has a next door neighbor, India, who is also riding the crest of an extraordinary boom and will soon be competing fiercely with them for scarce resources, such as oil, which is going to make for some interesting times ahead.
The US is still the Big-Kid-on-the-Block, so I expect China will continue feeding our Wal-Mart addiction for years to come.
Also, China has a next door neighbor, India, who is also riding the crest of an extraordinary boom and will soon be competing fiercely with them for scarce resources, such as oil, which is going to make for some interesting times ahead.
mrmeval
Member
The depression effected my mother and her family very little. They were rural farmers and almost entirely self sufficient.
Now we don't have that as we once did.
Now we don't have that as we once did.
thumper723 said:
Manedwolf
member
Borachon said:
This is why I tell people heading for grad school to aim for the medical industry. One, people are not going to stop getting sick, injured and older. Two, because the FDA is VERY strict about manufacturing processes, it's far harder to overseas-outsource the production of medical devices and have them certified for use in the US.
Good industry to be in.
CAnnoneer
Member
Sir Aardvark said:
Indeed they will. I vote we export our products to both while they fight each other. Of the two, India may ultimately be the more dangerous to us, as their population growth is out of control while their government is less stable.
The above strategy however requires that our soldiers are rested and ready at home, rather than stuck in a Turd World hellhole doing nation-building for homegrown globalists on both sides of the aisle. GWB
War? That is almost amusing. War with what, and whose, money? With what resources; what army?Borachon said:
And if such an insane idea was put into motion; just what is your contingency plan for a major attack on U.S. assets, bases, etc in another theatre by another country or two?
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I put forward this idea on another forum several months ago. It wasn't a very popular observation; but one which I still think is in the works.Malone LaVeigh said:
Ther are some potential major hangups - for the state of Israel that is. But they have become so brazen they may try it all the same.
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If US economy crash, so does China's. If China's economy crash, the communist leadership will be thrown out very quickly. Hence the Chinese would be extremely interested in the economic well being of the US, perhaps more so than any other country in the world. As for "calling our debt", there's no way that would happen. US would simply print money and screw our creditors. China would lose hundreds of billions of dollars.
The US economy is most likely headed for a recession this year and the dollar will almost certainly decline. With those projections, it would be crazy for the Chinese to keep buying the dollar. What they're doing is in their interest. China simply must have a strong US economy to grow theirs. The US economy would not have cimbed out of the mess in the late 90's without their propping the dollar up. However though China will march up a hill with us they won't follow us off a cliff.
Americans have a simple way of securing our retirement funds in the event of serious economic woes: buy Canadian and Australian. That is to say buy stocks and funds in their banking, energy, and precious resources sector. The Canadian and Australian dollars will retain value and their resource based economy would benefit from growing economies like China and India for a long time to come. If the dollar takes a dive, Chinese money will have to go somewhere, and it's not going to Europe.
The US economy is most likely headed for a recession this year and the dollar will almost certainly decline. With those projections, it would be crazy for the Chinese to keep buying the dollar. What they're doing is in their interest. China simply must have a strong US economy to grow theirs. The US economy would not have cimbed out of the mess in the late 90's without their propping the dollar up. However though China will march up a hill with us they won't follow us off a cliff.
Americans have a simple way of securing our retirement funds in the event of serious economic woes: buy Canadian and Australian. That is to say buy stocks and funds in their banking, energy, and precious resources sector. The Canadian and Australian dollars will retain value and their resource based economy would benefit from growing economies like China and India for a long time to come. If the dollar takes a dive, Chinese money will have to go somewhere, and it's not going to Europe.
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