CHL carrier kills man

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And as the truth will come out, it will prove that the dead person was the one that pulled the knife......The ccw holder did nothing but defend his life against an aggressive anti-social character threatening him with bodily harm first, and then a knife.
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The prosecution is stating the CHL holder pulled the knife. Chances are, the prosecution has more facts at their disposal than any member of this forum. While it would be convenient if the deceased had pulled the knife, I do not think the prosecution would jeopardize their case by twisting the facts.

Saying that all black people in Houston are displaced New Orleanians is just as problematical, as is insinuating that all displaced New Oleanians are somehow criminals deserving to be shot.

Sometimes it's time to call a spade a spade, not claim it is a diamond.
 
The displaced N.O. thugs have brought nothing but trouble to Houston, but as a former resident this crap was happening long before Katrina. I know a women who went to the Astrodome to help with the relief effort and was pulled into a bathroom and raped. NO COMMENT ON THAT ONE :cuss: .
 
The prosecution is stating the CHL holder pulled the knife. Chances are, the prosecution has more facts at their disposal than any member of this forum. While it would be convenient if the deceased had pulled the knife, I do not think the prosecution would jeopardize their case by twisting the facts.

Saying that all black people in Houston are displaced New Orleanians is just as problematical, as is insinuating that all displaced New Oleanians are somehow criminals deserving to be shot.

Sometimes it's time to call a spade a spade, not claim it is a diamond.
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I agree!

You are wasting your breath .. I have asked MANY times where has it even been insinuated that the VICTIM had a knife .. no one has had and report of it .. To say that anyone in this thread has more knowledge than the eye witness reports is foolish.. Why do people keep saying "I BET THE BG HAD A KNIFE!!" .. SHOW US WHERE IT SAYS THAT PLEASE..Some people never cease to amaze me


:)
 
tnieto2004,
Did you perhaps fail to read my post that you quoted?
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You do realize I am in agreement with your statement .. I have been saying that throughout the thread .. Someone always seems to come back with the "Well the BG had the knife" .. I was saying your wasting your breath because people aren't going to comprehend that the victim is not thought to have had a knife
 
I see now, tnieto2004. Thanks! ;)
More details were released Friday in state district court concerning the 24-year-old man accused of fatally shooting another passenger during an argument on a Metro bus.

Prosecutors at a probable cause hearing said Garrett Mallot first pulled a knife, then a .357-caliber Magnum pistol during the dispute with Otis James Francis, 31, as the two rode a Metro bus in the 11700 block of Westheimer around 11:45 a.m. on Wednesday.
Link
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This thread is about a factual and current case that threatens our rights to keep and bear arms. It should not be turned into a betting pool of the possibilities, nor should the facts as we know them be twisted. It is important that we act and speak on the facts, not what we wish them to be.

Attempts to muddy the water, obscure the facts, or set up straw men only hurts us. If we are to judge anything, let our judgement be based on the facts we have, rather than our wishful, hopeful fantasies.
 
tnieto, are you really as worked up about this argument has your writing implies?
I don't think anyone missed what you are said the first time, it is just idea that a guy would pull out two weapons seems strange so many are slow to condemn the CHL holder. Is that such a bad thing?
 
MechAg94 wrote:

One other thing: Deadly force is allowed in Texas for threat to life or serious bodily injury. There is case law in Texas that says fists can cause serious bodiy injury. There was a case in Dallas early on where a guy was getting snot beat out of him and pulled out his gun and killed his attacker. It went to trial and the guy got off.
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there is a difference in this case. it does not appear that the dead guy actually assaulted the CHL holder. in the case you mentioned, the guy was assaulted (pretty severely) and then pulled his gun in self defense.

much more justified and clear-cut than this case, where it was a threat of violence. if someone could shoot every time someone made a threat (and not even execute the threat) then we'd have a lot more shootings.

i think the investigation is still ongoing. however, if the news report is accurate:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4675545.html

Harris County Assistant District Attorney Katherine McDaniel said today that Mallot was getting on the bus and the two began arguing after Francis brushed Mallot's arm.

"That guy said he was going to kick my ass," Mallot told authorities. He told police he then pulled a knife and Francis repeated the threat.

Mallot, who had a license to carry a concealed handgun, then shot Francis in front of more than 20 passengers, McDaniel said.
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then, the order of events is:

1. dead guy brushes up against CHL holder's arm which starts an argument
2. dead guy threatens to "kick his ass"
3. CHL holder pulls out a knife
4. dead guy again threatens to "kick his ass"
5. CHL holder pulls out a gun and shoots dead guy

i think conflict de-escalation did not occur here. something that DPS stresses heavily during the CHL class. it does not appear, from what is being disseminated, that any attempt at conflict de-escalation happened.

one of the test questions on the CHL test is something to the effect of "never use a gun to win an argument." True or False?
 
Since everyone is speculating about how bad the victim must have been to get shot.. I mean, if a law-abiding CHL holder shot him, he HAD TO BE a bad guy right? From the news story the shooter sounds like one of the bloodlust types.. the kind of person who is just itchin for a reason to shoot someone legally. Im guessing he wouldnt have had a gun on him if he didnt have the CHL. CHL holders are not infallible.. law-abiding citizens become law-breaking citizens everyday.
 
News stories such as this often portray the good guy in a less than good light and refer to the deceased as being the victim which readers take to mean being the victim of an illegal act. In reality, the "victim" may be the bad guy and the shooter was attempting to not be a victim of an illegal act. This was the case with the Hale-Tavai case noted above. Tavai was the victim of the shooting, described as being "the victim" of the case, but Hale was stopping Tavai from committing further bodily damage on him.

In this Houston case, it is hard to say who is the actual bad guy. Had the deceased produced a knife, you would think that the defense would have brought up this aspect, but apparently there were no such witness accounts and the defense didn't challenge the Prosecution's claims that the shooter first produced a knife, then a gun.
 
The problem here is we have maybe 10% of the story.

Jeff White's point that if it was an LEO we'd be all over it is valid, but mainly because we'd have 20 different media outlets covering the story with interviews and film at 11 if this had involved a cop.

This is frankly a "boring" story from the media point of view and we are left with 2 or 3 lousy one paragraph articles with 2 or 3 versions of the story from the Houston Chronicle, a worthless newspaper to begin with.

I'm afraid this one will be a mystery as to what really happened until the trial.
 
Here are the facts from a witness

To clear the confusion concering this "Murder", I was on the Metro bus and an eyewitness to what happened. First in my opinion the shooting was not justified. I will give you the facts and you can draw your own conclusion. The victim who was shot was sitting in the aisle seat just one row opposite the rear exit door. The suspect, defendant or murderer boarded the bus at Kirkwood and was making his way to the back of the bus when the motion of the bus caused him to stumble and bump into the victim. The victim responded, "watch were the ???? you are going." The murderer said, "excuse me sir." The victim then said, "I ought to knock you the **** out." The defendant stopped and said, "what." The victim then said, "I ougt to knock you the **** out." The murderer then shoved the victims shoulder and said, "C'mon then mother ****er let me see you do it." I was sitting in the handicap seat just opposite the rear exit door. When the Murderer shoved the victim he then stepped back in front of me and pulled out a knife. As the victim got out of his seat to confront his soon to be killer, the Murderer said, **** it, dropped his knife and pulled out a .357 magnum and shot the victim in the back as he was running toward the front. So in defense of the Victim and the DA, this thug who happened to have a license to carry a weapon, was looking for an opportunity for someone to make his day and carried it out with this senseless murder.
 
Actually based on what you just described, the shooter was a moron/murderer and the victim had a death wish. Very sad.

The victim then said, "I ought to knock you the **** out." The defendant stopped and said, "what." The victim then said, "I ought to knock you the **** out."
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Guess the victim didn't want to be knocked the **** out. So he will likely go down for second degree murder though it will most likely be manslaughter if he pleads. Makes you wonder why the perpetrator got the CHL in the first place, maybe two years ago he got on a bus and by accident stumbled into someone and was beaten within an inch of his life for being clumsy. Who the hell knows, it just goes to shows you that the "Golden Rule" should be followed in all circumstances.
 
looking for an opportunity for someone to make his day and carried it out with this senseless murder.
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Hey, I've heard those before.

Taison, this is not to cast doubt on the truthfulness of your story (last thing I'd do is jump in and call a new member a liar). It sounds like the result of either reading up on the subject after the fact or picking it up from the media at some point. I'm curious which, because they're otherwise not commonly used phrases.
 
The Real Eyewitness news

I did not pick these facts from a second source. I subscribed to this board just to clear the facts. I was on my way to the airport via the Metro when this occurred. It happened no more than a foot in front of me. The guy even conversed with me afterwards. If you go to www.khou.com and look at the helicopter images taken at the scene you will see me talking with a houston police officer. I am holding a black bag in the second scene. I will admit that only a few passenger really knew what happened because it occurred in the rear of the bus were a few passengers were sitting. The nurse who said she attended to the victim even lied about her role. My version of the story is only known by the DA because I could not stick around to talk to detectives because I had a plane to catch. The officer you see me talking to took my phone number and Homicide detective said it was ok for me to leave. If you want to know more facts email me at [email protected]
 
Taison, thanks for coming here and clearing up the facts for us. Sorry you had to witness the event, can't have been pleasant.


A couple of questions if you don't mind:
How did the shots affect your hearing?
Why use the phrases I bolded in my last post (if you know)?
 
eyewitness

Potato,

To answer your question, the blast did not affect my hearing at all. Let me also add, the victim did not say he was going to knock the suspect the **** out, he said he ought to knock him the **** out. The situation escalated when the suspect pushed the victims shoulder and said c'mon let me see you do it. This is hardly a self-defense case, right? The suspect did not use his 357 magnum because he feared for his life, he used it because he felt he was being "dissed." My impression of this kid is that of a wanna-be gangster.
 
I am not calling out. I am trying to understand what you are saying. The shooter tagged the guy in the back, or shot him and then the guy turned to run?
 
Eyewitness information

Taison, have you yet returned and given a written statement to Houston PD or the DA's Office?

I know that it is policy in a death investigation for the police to interview and obtain statements from ALL those on the scene at the time of the incident. On the other hand, some witnesses decide they "have other, more pressing business," and leave the area before the police arrive.

If you are sharing this information with the THR membership, I hope you are doing likewise with the police.

Best,
Johnny
 
Thanks for your account Taison.. Thats pretty much what the media reported .. A bump into the victim .. a confrontation .. Then a shooting .. Looks like the guy was an idiot with a gun .. Hope he gets what he deserves ..
 
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