CHL with additional firearms in cars, TEXAS guys only

[ready4shtf]

I have a cheap 18" 12ga pump that I keep in my truck at all times. I was wondering if any other Texas guys keeep long guns in their cars. I really consider my pistol a backup. First choice is my 12ga. Can some of the CHL guys that ONLY carry their sidearm chime in as to why not a long gun too?

 

[Still 2 Many Choices!?]

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't...

Depending on my mood, I might bring the AK(rarely), the M4gery(more than the AK), or the AR pistol(my favorite to carry)... Long guns in Texas are legal to carry without a license, but you should check your areas regs. My AR pistol is covered by my concealed license, so no worries with whatever I decide to let take the ride .

 

[ready4shtf]

Why should I check my area's regulations (if there is such a thing). Texas law applies anywhere in texas right? IE, dallas PD cant charge me saying its illegal to have a long gun in my truck in downtown dallas.......... Right?

 

[elric]

Why should I check my area's regulations (if there is such a thing). Texas law applies anywhere in texas right? IE, dallas PD cant charge me saying its illegal to have a long gun in my truck in downtown dallas.......... Right

In theory, yes ... in practice, stay outta Harris county (Houston). When the legislature last year tried to clear up the "traveling" confusion, basically saying it was OK to have a handgun in your car as long as you were a good guy not doing anything wrong, the Harris County DA released a statement that he would still prosecute anyway.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=153900

This is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts ... it was clear what the legislature intended to do with the law, and this aggogant I-know-better-than-everyone DA just ignores it, and decides to make up hiw own (illegal) laws. I hope someone goes after him for malicious prosecution, conspiracy to violate civil rights, or somesuch.

 

[dev_null]

Other than peaceable journey, and the occasional attempted carjacking, what is the good of the TX "car gun without CHL" law? Seems to me the second you set one foot out of the car with the gun, even to defend yourself from immanent threat, you're in violation. Anyone in TX care to throw some light on this?

Edit (thx ready): make that "... set one foot out of the car with a pistol ..."

 

[ready4shtf]

You have to designate "gun" as "handgun" or "long gun". Because the laws are very different for each.

Long gun, ok anytime, for any reason, in sight, or concealed, loaded/unloaded, in your lap, no difference. Always has been that way.

Handgun. WAS prohibited unless traveling. NOW traveling means anytime ok, long as you arent breaking the law (except traffic violations), and its concealed. Although, if you arent a CHL, I would still recommend leaving it at home, because technically its OK, but you will more than likley still get arrested. (Total BS).

 

[ready4shtf]

Yes, the handgun must remain in the car if you get out, unless you are on your own property. (Non-CHL guys).

But honestly, if I have to exit my vehicle, I'm exiting with my 12ga pump in hand, not my pistol.

 

[ball3006]

When I am in my truck,

I always have my AK with me, along with the two pistols I carry. When it is not raining, I ride my motorcycle on which a long gun is a bit of a hassle.....chris3

 

[Imaginos]

Texas CHL w/o Long gun

I'm not trying to debate the relative power and utility of long guns over hand guns. I am speaking strictly for myself.

I have a Texas CHL, but I do not carry a long gun in the vehicle for several reasons:

1) If I need a gun in DFW, it means I need it NOW and I will not have time to drag a long gun out from wherever I have it stashed. If I have time to get to my long gun, I have time to try to drive/run away, and I will do so with minimal hesitation.

2) Having any gun stashed in a vehicle just makes it that much easier for punks to steal while they are ripping off your radio. If one of those punks happen to be a minor, I would face charges of failing to properly secure a firearm. Personally, I don't want any of my guns used against law abidsing folks. Punks can feel free kill each other off with my blessing and hearty endorsement of the activity. Just don't do it with my guns.

3) Getting out of your vehicle with a long gun is definitely going to escalate whatever situation you decided you need a gun for and possibly bring in previously uninvolved parties. To most sheeple a handgun is a short range weapon, but anyone waving an AR/AK around is a "sniper" and the calls to 911 will be extra shrill.

4) The post-shooting media trial is going to be bad enough. Using a long gun is just going to make it worse.

5) Texas still has that nasty liability law in place that says you can be sued for any damage done by a bullet you send down range. The chance of serious over penetration and down range hazards is too great with a rifle.

6) A shotty is by far the best long gun for general purpose urban pest control, but items 1-3 tend to discourage me from keeping one in the car.

YMMV

 

[beaucoup ammo]

Agree With Imaginos

You'll find my trusty Remington 12ga. in the Jeep with me during dove season..but otherwise, just my KAHR P9 and/or S&W .357 65-3..for the very reasons he mentions.

My handgun(s)..no limit on # you can carry.. stay on my person at all times. Leaving a shotgun in the vehicle is just one more treasured item I'd lose if the Jeep got ripped off. Plus, it would put a weapon in the hands of a BG. That thought alone is deterrent enough for me.

 

[ProficientRifleman]

Rifle or shotgun?

It is lawful in Texas to carry a rifle or shotgun with you in a vehicle or on foot. Don't carry any weapon into, or onto the premises of, a school, racetrack, or premises licensed by the alcoholic beverage comission.

Also Texas law was recently clarified in regard to "traveling". Generally, if you are an honest citizen and not prohibited from posession of firearms, you will be presumed to be traveling if you are driving a motorvehicle and the handgun is NOT in plain view.

The only thing which might prevent me from carrying a long gun in my pick-em-up truck, is concern about possible theft. When I was a child and is was a more sane and rational world, it was VERY common to see trucks with gun racks and one if not several rifles and/or shotguns in the rear window.

 

[Zrex]

BUT:

When carrying a long arm, if you run into ignorant cops and soccer moms like that guy from the TSRA did in Plano, you can be in for a treat. I will try to locate the article, but to the best of my recollection, this guy had a civil war era black powder rifle in his car in view and some soccer mom saw it and called the Plano cops who hassled him and threatened to run him in for disorderly conduct or something stupid.


lemme look.


ok here it is on page 5:

http://www.tsrapac.org/Vol_36_3.pdf

 

[Still 2 Many Choices!?]

Darn it!! This is Texas!

I am still waiting, not anxiously though , for an officer to pull me over with my CCL and my AR pistol, the confusion it causes may be worth the time spent, lol !!

 

[ProficientRifleman]

Zrex

As I stated on another thread when discussing this very issue, Johnny Law MIGHT roll up and give you a hard time, but he would have no legal basis for doing so.

It is a sad fact that some times when a cop think's "Ahaa! I gotcha!" and then finds out the he doesn't "gotcha" he will feel offended and start looking for some other reason to harrass you. Then, as in the case sited above, he'll probably leave with a terse remark about you behaving yourself.

This is NOT law enforcement. This is just bullying.

Just be aware that if you carry a long gun, you might draw attention to yourself. If you draw attention to yourself, you must be ready to (politely) stand your ground and defend you right as a citizen.

If the Officer was rude to you, you have the option of going to speak to HIS supervisor. Take it up his chain of command.

 

[wally]

Bottom line, you can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride. Wongful arrest or not it'll sure ruin your day. Keep a low profile. If you want to carry, get a CHL regardless, its not that expensive and mine has more than paid for itself in speeding tickets that turned into warnings when I produced the CHL.

--wally.

 

[ProficientRifleman]

Another anecdote

I was living in FatetteNam, NC a while back. In North Carolina, open carry is perfectly legal, with the obvious exceptions of schools, courthouses, etc...

I was in my pick-em-up truck traversing town when I came upon a sobriety checkpoint. My 1911 was holstered and sticking up between the split bench seat. It was the most conspicuous thing in sight. As the officer approached my vehicle, ( I was third back in line, or so...) he began to ask for my driver's license and registration.

He passed the front post of the cab of my truck as he was saying the word "registration". In mid-sentence, without a pause for breath, he demanded..."Whatcha dooin with yer weapon in there?"

I replied, "I keep it with me when I'm out and about."

He countered ingeniously, "Out-n-about, huh?"

I almost responded, "Yeah, out and about, HUH!" but I remained silent.

The gallant officer then said, "If yer gonna carry yer weapon, it needs to be in plain sight...either on the dash or on the seat!"

I looked at my pistol, which was placed as conspicuously as I could possibly place it, and then at the officer and replied, "Roger that..."

He then took my license, ran his check and came back and told me to "have a good'n." Which I proceeded to do.

The point is, Police officers generally, not always, there are exceptions, look at someone who is carying a firearm as someone to be suspicious of. This will happen even if you are going out of your way to demonstrate your compliance. They are trained this way. The carrying of personnal arms has fallen out of fashion, you see? It has been against the law in Texas to carry a hangun since post-reconstruction. It was done, but was rarely prosecuted. In these days our people are not taught, generally speaking, to think. Rather to emote. Police, being a product of our society generally, are no different.

I'll bet you my hat that the second officer to roll up on the scene (mentioned above in a previous post) was more experienced and told the original officer he didn't have anything here and to let the guy go.

It is a sad sign of the times.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Some of you guys are DEAD WRONG about the "new" travel law.
Read "Important Traveling Notice" in the "TSRA Sportsman", March/April 2006.

The Police can, and some have already said they WILL arrest you if you are caught with a pistol in the car and no CHL. The "Travel" law hasn't been changed at all. The only thing that's been changed is "presumed to be traveling" was added and the burden of proof is on the state to prove that you aren't a traveler. After they arrest you, in your town, just how hard will that be to prove you aren't traveling?

Basically the police jurisdictions that want to play hardball arent paying any attention to the "presumed" wording and are arresting knowing that in fact you aren't a traveler and you will be convicted.

I have even seen LEO in the gun forums say they will still arrest if they find a hand gun and no CHL.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Yes I do keep long guns and at least one extra pistol in my vehicles 24/7.

All other arguments aside.
If I need a particular gun, it does me no good if it's at home in the safe.

 

[Euclidean]

Here's the real kicker on this deal. As a permit holder, if I'm pulled over by the Popo, the first words out of my mouth better be "Officer I have a CHL and there is a weapon in the vehicle."

Because after all, the whole reason I got the permit is because I secretly want to shoot an officer. It's not because I like to obey the law.

NOW OTOH, a person without a permit is under no such restriction to declare there's a gun in the vehicle. If you don't have a permit, and they'll know you don't have one, there's no reason for them to come back and ask you about guns in the vehicle.

So if you do this sans permit, my advice to you is enjoy the screwy wording of our laws and keep your gun out of sight and your mouth shut.

FWIW, officers in TX tend to make up the concealed handgun laws as they go along in a lot of places.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Since I've had my CHL, many years, I've been stopped by almost every kind of LEO in Texas. I've been stopped least thirteen times and four times was in well know speed traps. The last speeding stop a few months ago.

I have never had the least bit of trouble from any of those LEO and in many of those stops the the attitude of the LEO became noticeably more friendly when I gave him my CHL.

In all those stops I have NOT RECEIVED one ticket (except a couple warning speeding tickets).

Maybe I'm just lucky and get stopped by gun guys.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

1) If I need a gun in DFW, it means I need it NOW and I will not have time to drag a long gun out from wherever I have it stashed. If I have time to get to my long gun, I have time to try to drive/run away, and I will do so with minimal hesitation.

You can't possibly know this to be true. It may be true, but it may not. A long gun probably would not help you in a carjacking, no doubt, but are you always going to be in the driver's seat when you need a long gun?

Are you sure that you will always be driving or running away from a threat? What if the threat isn't directed at you, but a loved one?

2) Having any gun stashed in a vehicle just makes it that much easier for punks to steal while they are ripping off your radio. If one of those punks happen to be a minor, I would face charges of failing to properly secure a firearm.

Don't keep your long gun on your radio. Seriously, this is valid in many instances, but not in all. Do you leave your gun in your car, parked on the street, overnight? Probably not. If you keep your gun in the trunk and the car is stolen or burgled, say while at work, what laws have you broken? Since when is a gun secured in a locked vehicle improperly secured in relation to minor burglars?

3) Getting out of your vehicle with a long gun is definitely going to escalate whatever situation you decided you need a gun for and possibly bring in previously uninvolved parties. To most sheeple a handgun is a short range weapon, but anyone waving an AR/AK around is a "sniper" and the calls to 911 will be extra shrill.

4) The post-shooting media trial is going to be bad enough. Using a long gun is just going to make it worse.

I love this sort of logic. Introducing a handgun into a situation where there are knives escalates force. Are you saying that it is bad if you are the one who introduces the handgun because it escalates things? There was a very good reason for the slogan of "Peace Through Superior Firepower." Why is escalation a bad thing if it is needed to save your life?

I also like the fact that you have placed more concern on perceptions and post event antics than the battle and you have assumed you have won the fight with your handgun. Maybe you will. Maybe the handgun will be insufficient and you are dead afterwards and the media will still have a field day with your behavior and the family you left behind. You are counting your chickens before they hatch and you don't even have any eggs yet.

5) Texas still has that nasty liability law in place that says you can be sued for any damage done by a bullet you send down range. The chance of serious over penetration and down range hazards is too great with a rifle.

Actually, I don't know of any states that don't have a nasty liability issue that says you can can be sued for any round sent down range. Some states may not allow a bad guy you intended to shoot sue you, but others still can.

As for overpenetration, it all depends on what you hit with what ammo. Many rounds like 5.56 pose relatively small OP risks and even if they do, fragment or destabilize such that collateral downrange damage is greatly reduced. A .45-70 is another matter all together. Besides, you can go with a pistol caliber long gun such that you can have the better ability to hit targets at ranges typically greater than what you could do with a pistol as quickly or readily, but without much risk change to you and your liability concerns, but it depends on the ammo and what you hit.

6) A shotty is by far the best long gun for general purpose urban pest control, but items 1-3 tend to discourage me from keeping one in the car.

Once again, it all depends on a given situation. Shotties are great for many things, poor for others.

 

[chrisTx]

i've taken way too many car burglary reports to know that it is not a good idea to leave any firearm in the car.

a pistol is a defensive weapon. a long gun will give you a little more to be offensive. i carry long guns on duty, pistols only off. i'm sure it would look great if you told the jury that you shot at your attacker with your pistol, then ran to your car to get the shotgun to finish him off.

 

[Euclidean]

FWIW...

I have been told by peace officers in Texas:

I must conceal the weapon at all times even when in my vehicle.
I must not conceal the weapon when in my vehicle.

It is illegal to have the weapon loaded in my vehicle.
It is legal to have the weapon loaded in my vehicle so long as it is concealed or not concealed.

I must unload the weapon.
It is not necessary to unload the weapon.

Transporting a firearm is illegal in the state of Texas period.
Transporting a firearm is legal only with a CHL permit period.
Transporting a firearm is legal as long as it's broken down.. etc. etc.

I always obey all requests of each peace officer with all due haste even when I know they're baseless or don't go along with the penal code. But the LEOs in our state are pretty much making up gun laws as they go along.

Is there no training to bring every LE agency in the state up to speed with state laws?

 

[M2 Carbine]

I would seriously consider calling a LEO's superior if he told me some of the foolishness you say you were told.

 

[LAK]

FWIW; Texas State Constitution forbids any jurisdiction within the State of Texas from imposing any more than what is in the State penal code.

You might get some grief at the hands of ignorant individual public servants - or as suggested, "policy" in some jurisdictions. If you do, be sure to file charges for false arrest and malicious prosecution in a State court as applicable, along with a civil suit.

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