Choosing 44 cal bullet weight and diameter.

[D.B. Cooper]

I'm trying to find the right bullet for shooting 44 spl out of my Ruger Redhawk that will reduce recoil. I'd like to stick with a cast lead bullet due to cost.

Currently shooting 240 grain cast lead SWC over 6 grains Unique. Manageable, but still suprisingly "snappy." (6 grains is near the minimum starting load for 240 grains.)

Looking at Lyman's, this load generates around 8100 CUP. A 205 grn projectile with 7 grains of Unique (again, near minimum) will generate about 10500 CUP. It seems to me that an increase in pressure will translate into higher recoil. Am I correct in this?

Should I consider loading well below minimum powder charges? (e.g. 4 or 5 grains?)

And then there is the diameter issue. My current bullet is .431 (and I already asked about this diameter in regards to bulging cases). The current bullet and load is pretty accurate when fired single action supported. (At 7 yrds, after about 12 shots, I'm not making any new holes; they bullets are just going through the one ragged hole.)

Because of the bulge in the case, I'm still concerned about the diameter, even though they all chamber fine and shoot well. Should I be looking for a .431bullet?

So there you have it. If I move down to a 200 grn bullet, they're cheaper, but t looks like they won't be any lighter recoiling. The 240 grn I shoot now are acceptable for what I'm doing (shooting steel targets from about 20 ft.) Just looking to get a little less muzzle rise and maybe save a few cents per round. If possible.

 

[warnerwh]

If you go to a lighter bullet that will help. Myself and others have loaded Unique to below recommended loads and have had no problem. I found this on a different forum: "Hornady lists 5.2 gr of Unique with the 200 gr HP at 650 fps." I'm no expert but I wouldn't go below that due to the possibility of getting a stuck bullet but if Hornady listed it you will be safe. I don't have a Hornady load book so it's up to you to confirm it. That load should have very little recoil for a .44 special.

The bulge you are getting sounds normal for the .431 cast bullets you are using. I would have to see a picture to be sure though.

 

[drband]

If your rounds chamber properly, your bullet size is acceptable. Does a .431 bullet slip through the chamber throat with slight resistance? It should.
If really tight, you might consider a smaller bullet diameter, but it sounds like you are ok.
I don’t think you’ll get a stuck bullet if you have any significant powder in the case. Semiautomatic pistols often fail to cycle with low charges. Revolvers do not have that issue.
“No powder” is likely to cause a stuck bullet, but low charges, not so much.

If you are getting good accuracy for plinking, you can safely experiment with less powder until accuracy falls off or you stick a bullet if you are determined to reduce recoil further.

 

[Jack B.]

Hornady's Handbook Of Cartridge Reloading 9th Edition states that the starting load of 4.9gr. of Unique with their lead 240 gr. SWC (.430 diameter) from a 3" barreled Charter Arms gun will produce 650 FPS. Looks like you could go a little less than 6.0grs. charge weight with Unique and be ok. I wouldn't worry about .001' diameter in a lead bullet if they are shooting ok without pressure problems for you. IMO I would work down powder charge weights slowly until you are satisfied. What brand of bullet are you using? Just wondering where you got .431 diameter bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

My favorite cas bullet was the 208 Gr WC from a Lee mold. I also liked the 215 Gr SWC from Magnus. Recoiled less than the various 240 Gr bullets.

It seems to me that an increase in pressure will translate into higher recoil. Am I correct in this?

Not necessarily. It's about speed and weight, and of course the powder speed can make a difference.
http://kwk.us/recoil.html

Should I consider loading well below minimum powder charges?

That will decrease velocity which will decrease recoil. I have more than one "bellow starting load" loads I use. Not all powders are good for this. Fast flake are best, and some of even some of
those burn better than others at low pressure and away from the primer. WST & Competition are a great choice, as well as Clays. 700X is very good in .44 Spl.

I'm still concerned about the diameter

They need to fit the throats, which should be a hair over groove diameter.

 

[Lafitte]

I have used 200gr lead bullets quite a bit in .44mag. First, slug the barrel to find out what size it is, I like to use lead bullets that are about .001 to .002 larger than bore diameter. Now, check the cylinder throats (all of them) to see if a bullet of the proper size will pass through the throats. You may find that the throats need to be reamed to accomodate the proper bullet. (No need to go to the trouble to get the proper size lead bullet then resize it as it leaves the cylinder.)
Lafitte

 

[GooseGestapo]

For the loads you're wanting, you need to change powders.
I had a S&W 329PD, scandium frame .44mag. My "shooter" load became the Lee 200gr RFN at .431" over 5.0gr of Clays. I cast them from a 6-cavity mold, tumble lubed, and unsized were .431". Easy, cheap, and accurate. I now shoot them through a S&W M69.

You can substitute Bullseye, RedDot/Promo, Win231, Acc#2, VVN310, TiteGroup, and similar fast powders.

I like Clays as it's fast, clean, economical, and accurate. It is a LARGE flake powder, like Unique, though. Some powder measures don't handle it well. Bullseye and Win231 are the accuracy champs, but not quite as economical as Clays.

I much prefer to use the .44spl cases, too. They clear the cylinder on ejection. The .44mags don't.

 

[ourway77]

Want a real kicker try the 445 super mag it's a 44 magnum on steroids (I am 80 and still shoot it) Really does a job on Deer Bang Flop What I do I look for the accuracy load listed for a certain caliber then start working up a load Most powder companies will list most popular and most accurate powder for their powders Of course velocity doesn't make for good accuracy Most starting loads will kill a Deer if shot placement is off no matter what power you have NO DEER

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I wanted some low recoil loads in my .45 Colt for my wife to shoot.
I loaded 200 grain lead bullets with Trail Boss.

It worked great. Very light recoiling and pretty accurate.

 

[Charlie98]

My Ruger .44 (one of the Lipsey's flattops) had mismatched cylinder throats; I had it reamed and the machinist said they were all over the place. If you aren't having accuracy issues, it would still be a good idea to check your cylinder throats... a sized bullet should almost drop through.

Like one poster mentioned... if you want lighter recoil, you need a different powder. I'm using RedDot or TiteGroup for my 200grn .44SPC loads, and I think there is data for W231 as well. I save the Unique for the 255grn Keiths.

 

[RealGun]

If the bullet is oversize (.431), I would think there would be a pressure spike and associated recoil trying to swage the bullet down and through the throat and barrel. So the recoil could be more than would occur with a better fit of bullet to gun (maybe).

My cowboy load for 44 Magnum rifle is 6.2 grains of Trailboss with a 200 gr LRNFP from Bullets by Scarlett. I have used 44 Special of 7.5 Unique with the same bullet in two Flat Top Rugers (one medium frame 44 Special and one large frame 44 Magnum) as well as the rifle and didn't think much of the recoil. Velocity was rated well within the 1000 fps limit for the revolvers.

Lastly, I wonder if the 44 Special is the right cartridge for you, if the recoil at any level is a problem. A Ruger Redhawk is a lot of gun mass to absorb recoil, and needing to explore loading under minimum just has "wrong caliber" all over it.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

If the bullet is oversize (.431), I would think there would be a pressure spike and associated recoil trying to swage the bullet down and through the throat and barrel. So the recoil could be more than would occur with a better fit of bullet to gun (maybe).

My cowboy load for 44 Special is 6.2 grains of Trailboss with a 200 gr LRNFP from Bullets by Scarlett.

Lastly, I wonder if the 44 Special is the right cartridge for you, if the recoil at any level is a problem. A Ruger Redhawk is a lot of gun mass to absorb recoil, and needing to explore loading under minimum just has "wrong caliber" all over it.

The "recoil" in and of itself isn't THAT much of an issue. I have two problems, though. 1.) I'm shooting a practical shooting style league with it (steel targets) and I'm trying to reduce muzzle rise. (I may port the gun eventually anyway.) 2.) Even with these 44 spl handloads, after shooting 50+ rounds in practice, I think I start to get a "flinch." I start dropping bullets about 6" low at 6 o'clock at 7 yrds. Shooting it from the bench, from a supported position, I can shoot it all day long and stack them up in a single hole. The 3rd issue, a distant 3rd is that 200 grn bullets are a bit cheaper, and all I'm trying to do is make the steel go "clang."

 

[RealGun]

The "recoil" in and of itself isn't THAT much of an issue. I have two problems, though. 1.) I'm shooting a practical shooting style league with it (steel targets) and I'm trying to reduce muzzle rise. (I may port the gun eventually anyway.) 2.) Even with these 44 spl handloads, after shooting 50+ rounds in practice, I think I start to get a "flinch." I start dropping bullets about 6" low at 6 o'clock at 7 yrds. Shooting it from the bench, from a supported position, I can shoot it all day long and stack them up in a single hole. The 3rd issue, a distant 3rd is that 200 grn bullets are a bit cheaper, and all I'm trying to do is make the steel go "clang."

Be careful, because going to 200 gr will lower the POI. You would need to practice and get dialed in before trying in a match.

My 5.5" Redhawk in 45 Colt is ported. It is my "Ruger Only" load gun. Pretty awesome gun.

Note that I had to do some editing of the post you quoted.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Note that I had to do some editing of the post you quoted.

Oh yeah, I see that

Well, as far as it being the "wrong caliber" if I were out to be a competitor and trying to win such a match, I wouldn't have chosen 44 anything. This is my "woods carry" fishing camping "bear" gun. I'm using it in this league just to get competent with it. If I were really out to be competitive and finish higher up the list, I'd be shooting an 9mm semi. So, yes, it's the wrong caliber for what I'm using it for, but it's the right caliber for what I bought it for.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Okay, so, based on comments here, I ordered a 500 pc box of 200 grn .430 projectiles (lead flat nose) from Missouri Bullet Co. Cabela's website says they have 14 oz cans of Clays in stock. I'll pick some up tomorrow. I'll try the Clays with the last 200 of the 240 grn projectiles I have and see how that goes while i wait for the 200 grn to arrive.

 

[CKweigand]

Off-topic I know. But if you are competitively shooting, and think you’re developing a flinch problem. Put a snap cap in one of the cylinders and spin the wheel like you’re on wheel of fortune.I had the same issue as well, the only way I could resolve it was by dropping down to 38 special and working my way back up to 44 magnum recoil. Just a sidenote

 

[Varminterror]

Doing a comparison of the potential energy and the Lyman data, there might not be any appreciable difference in velocity for the two loads you're describing.

Doing the math on your charge data and bullets, assuming the Lyman data (scaled for 6.0 instead of 5.8), you'll have 13% greater recoil momentum in the 240grn load. Even using the published 5.8grn minimum, the 240grn load would be 11% more recoil momentum than the 205grn load.

SOMETIMES bullet speed makes up for lower bullet weight, especially when the lighter bullet runs over a heavier powder charge, however, that is NOT the case for your two particular loads.

 

[Charlie98]

My introduction to centerfire pistol was with the .41Mag. It took me almost 10 years to unlearn all the bad habits I developed shooting that...

 

[D.B. Cooper]

What brand of bullet are you using? Just wondering where you got .431 diameter bullets.

Oregon Trail brand Laser Cast. I bought them at my local Cabela's. Only brand of cast bullets they had. Cheaper than Hunter's Supply but not as cheap as Missouri Bullet.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

"Hornady lists 5.2 gr of Unique with the 200 gr HP at 650 fps." I'm no expert but I wouldn't go below that due to the possibility of getting a stuck bullet but if Hornady listed it you will be safe. I don't have a Hornady load book so it's up to you to confirm it. That load should have very little recoil for a .44 special.

Hornady's Handbook Of Cartridge Reloading 9th Edition states that the starting load of 4.9gr. of Unique with their lead 240 gr. SWC (.430 diameter) from a 3" barreled Charter Arms gun will produce 650 FPS. Looks like you could go a little less than 6.0grs. charge weight with Unique and be ok.

Re reading these comments 24 hours later helped them sink in a bit. My Redhawk has a 4.2" barrel. Before I run out and buy some different powder, I'm going to try some loads at these lower charges. (Waiting for the 200 grn projectiles to come in the mail anyway.) So this is what I'll be ding in the garage today and will shoot them later this week.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

My Ruger .44 (one of the Lipsey's flattops) had mismatched cylinder throats; I had it reamed and the machinist said they were all over the place. If you aren't having accuracy issues, it would still be a good idea to check your cylinder throats... a sized bullet should almost drop through..

So...in thinking about this, I need some clarification on your terminology.

When you reference throat size, are you referring to the front end of the cylinder or are you referring to that area at the very back end of the barrel? I could measure the inside diameter of either of those with my dial calipers.

When you say a "sized bullet" should "drop through" are you meaning any projectile out of the box, or do you suggest a bullet that has gone through a lubrisizer (which I don't have), and does "drop through" suggest dropping down through the barrel, muzzle-to-breech?

 

[Varminterror]

When you reference throat size, are you referring to the front end of the cylinder or are you referring to that area at the very back end of the barrel? I could measure the inside diameter of either of those with my dial calipers.

Throat is the forward end of the cylinder. The rear end of the barrel is the forcing cone.

When you say a "sized bullet" should "drop through" are you meaning any projectile out of the box, or do you suggest a bullet that has gone through a lubrisizer (which I don't have), and does "drop through" suggest dropping down through the barrel, muzzle-to-breech?

Drop through is NOT through the barrel - the bullet should NOT drop through the barrel. They should, however, fit through the throats. Your bullets should be of appropriate size to mate up with the bore, and should then only be guided, and not sized in any way by the throats - hence the bullets should slide through the throats with nothing more than finger pressure.

 

[Catpop]

I’ve loaded 163 gr 44 cal from a lee mold with hp38 and was a pussy cat, but very accurate from my 629!

 

[cp1969]

Currently shooting 240 grain cast lead SWC over 6 grains Unique. Manageable, but still suprisingly "snappy." (6 grains is near the minimum starting load for 240 grains.)

If that's a snappy load out of a Redhawk, you are holding the gun wrong.

8.0 grains of Unique w/240 LSWC is my 'popgun' load. Out of a Redhawk, it's a pussycat.

If you haven't already, find Elmer Keith's description of how to handle the recoil of a revolver. It's a method which, when you master it, works really well. Key to it is this: Don't try to hold the gun down.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Throat is the forward end of the cylinder. The rear end of the barrel is the forcing cone.



Drop through is NOT through the barrel - the bullet should NOT drop through the barrel. They should, however, fit through the throats. Your bullets should be of appropriate size to mate up with the bore, and should then only be guided, and not sized in any way by the throats - hence the bullets should slide through the throats with nothing more than finger pressure.

Okay. SO...

The projectiles I have been using (.431 LSWC) do NOT pass through the cylinder. I could force one through using a cleaning rod, but in the others, the projectile stuck in the throat, and I had to drive it back into the cylinder to get it out. I measured the throats (front end of the cylinder) with a dial caliper; I got four chambers at 0.429" and two chambers at 0.430".

Now then, should I interpret that information?