AlexanderA
Member
Absent nationwide registration, even the number of legal guns would be unknowable. It would be impossible to construct a chart like that in the OP. Which, frankly, is just as well if we are trying to preserve gun rights.
Civilian firearms ownership in the European Union
- Thread starter Snejdarek
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Gridley
Member
Some municipalities do have registries - I'm pretty sure that's a tiny percentage of the arms out there, but I can't see why it would be impossible to collect up that data. The unregistered number would, I feel certain, be MUCH higher by any reasonable estimation; I've seen a variety of different estimates over the years so I wouldn't think it would be impossible. Difficult, I'm sure (which is why I'd rather not try to do it myself if someone's already done a lot of leg work...).
Granted, I don't want to see nationwide registration (and glad that at present its illegal), or even state/local registration, or... well, much of anything, but I like to see reference points in data.
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Snejdarek
Member
It is a worldwide study that includes also USA, just that the table uses only EU countries.
USA stands at overal ownership of 120.5 firearms per / 100 people.
Registered: 1,073,743
Unregistered (estimate): 392,273,257
Source: http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/file...ings/SAS-BP-Civilian-held-firearms-annexe.pdf
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Snejdarek
Member
Well you do have FOPA and NFA items, right?
So the main difference is that the non-registered firearms in US do not equal illegal. Which was the case in EU before 2014 too.
AlexanderA
Member
I have to laugh. How do they have an "estimate" that's down to such an exact figure? So they think that there's more than one firearm for every man, woman, and child in the country? (That much may be true.)
We hear lately about guns being smuggled into the U.S. (over the southern border, for example). That would be like smuggling coal into Newcastle.
shoobe01
Member
Because that's where the math leads them. Rounding it off changes the value, so is yet another inaccuracy in the estimation.
The whole precision vs. accuracy thing.
Gridley
Member
Not if they're smuggling full autos, which I saw one source a while back claim.
Tommygunn
Member
Gridley
Member
Seems last I heard, guns were being smuggled south across the border .....
Yeah, the guns Obama directed be sold to drug cartels despite failed NICS checks in order to find out where drug cartels buy guns...
AlexanderA
Member
It would still be easier to make them (either from scratch or by conversion) within the U.S. rather than smuggle them in.
AlexanderA
Member
Yes, Operation "Fast and Furious." But in the current debate, the trifecta of people, drugs, and guns being smuggled is repeatedly being mentioned. The strong implication is that all three of these are being smuggled in and not out.
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Snejdarek
Member
That assumes overlapping skill in manufacturing as well as smuggling in criminal circles as well as same pricepoint of having a firearm made rather than just snatched from government supplies further South and just packed together with the drugs.
BTW there is interesting way illegal guns get to Italy - Albanian smugglers are armed to teeth while transporting drugs to Italy (usually in boats), but they leave guns with the drug buyers and continue back on commercial flights as normal "tourists" - unarmed (no need to have a whole gang on slow moving "fishing" ship).
JTHunter
Member
Like so many are trying to do here. And, with all the registration going on, the government will know who to hit first when they are ready to confiscate the guns.
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The funny thing is that 392 million number has been around for a long time. With the recent surge in production and buying it's way out of date. Best estimates are total firearms in the US are somewhere between 600-800 MILLION.
Way more guns than people. I know for my immediate family, sisters, wife, children, her's and mine, that my modest collection would result in more than half a dozen per person.
AlexanderA
Member
Not evenly distributed, though. They're actually held by a minority of the people. The majority have no knowledge of guns, or interest in them. If guns were evenly distributed, and everyone had a vested interest in them, we wouldn't be hearing talk of banning guns.
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Snejdarek
Member
Not really.
GREEN:No. of firearms per 100.000 people in US
ORANGE: Murder rate per 100.000 people in US
AlexanderA
Member
What the chart doesn't tell you is that it's the same people buying more guns. If the number of people with guns is remaining the same, the fluctuations in the murder rate must be due to some factor other than the availability of guns.
The number of guns in America is already so great that the lack of a gun is not a limiting factor for those thinking of committing a crime. They can easily get one, and no amount of restrictive legislation is going to change that.
Since you don't live in the US and probably haven't been reading US based media for almost 50 years I'll forgive you.
The number of 300-400 million guns in the US has been in common use since at least the mid '70's.
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Snejdarek
Member
Thank you for forgiving me and now please do share some sources of this claim.
Nope, not going down that rabbit hole. it's been discussed several times on this forum. You didn't give sources for your graphics, yet we're supposed to believe them? Use Google.
This should help get you started Snejdarek.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw09IbSEqLIauCm-86Oqyl60
I haven't tried to compile an accurate guess myself.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw09IbSEqLIauCm-86Oqyl60
I haven't tried to compile an accurate guess myself.
Mike OTDP
Member
I would not be surprised to see that the number of muzzle-loading arms in Europe is quite high. There's a very active BP shooting community over there.
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Snejdarek
Member
Well my graphic shows that I put some effort in what I say while you seem to be just making things up on the go. I used several sources for the graphic, but to make it easier for you, here's one that sums it up:
Based on data from a 2012 Congressional Research Service (CRS) report (and additional data from another Wonkblog article “There are now more guns than people in the United States“), the number of privately owned firearms in US increased from about 185 million in 1993 to 357 million in 2013.
http://www.aei.org/publication/chart-of-the-day-more-guns-less-gun-violence-between-1993-and-2013/
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Snejdarek
Member
What does that say as regards total number of firearms in the US exactly? I mean apart from trends of new guns entering market?
It is the total number of firearms manufactured and imported as reported to the ATF since 1985.
I think the answer you are looking for is unobtainable though. We do not have any list or registration capable of answering that question accurately. Good luck getting anyone in the US to cooperate anyway
I think the answer you are looking for is unobtainable though. We do not have any list or registration capable of answering that question accurately. Good luck getting anyone in the US to cooperate anyway
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