Classic lee loader or full reloading setup?

[Bullseye]

I asked pretty much the same question here about 2000 cartridges ago.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=756111

I am glad I bought a simple stage RCBS rockchucker to start. I inspected every cartridge I loaded and it was more helpful to grasp the process doing one thing at a time for me.
Even if I step up to a progressive press later on, I am sure I would keep the rockchucker on the bench for something.

 

[edleit]

After obtaining and reading a good, reliable book on reloading fundamentals, (such as Lyman's 49th), some of the best advice I've heard, here and elsewhere, is to enter into this hobby with a single-stage press. The advantages are many, not the least of which is an opportunity to attain a greater appreciation and understanding of each step involved in the reloading process. Secondary is the flexibility offered with interchangeable dies, etc.

If there is one non-hardware suggestion to offer, it is to diligently maintain a journal to record your various attempts to find the ideal load for your particular caliber/model/make combination. The search can be elusive, and being able to go back in your journal to recall a specific recipe can be a great time saver, especially if you are either prone to experimentation or are reloading for a variety of cartridges.

Wait on the progressives. As good as they may be, no one just stepping in to this is ready for one. I say that as an experienced mechanical engineer who's been reloading for about 7 years (on single stage and turret presses). Unless you understand the fundamentals, diving in at that level is asking for trouble. Not to mention that the complexity and increased throughput (volume capacity per unit time) comes with a higher price tag, as well.

Good Luck and Stay Safe!
Ed

 

[ljnowell]

When I first started reloading I bought the smallest lee bench press, it's like a 35 dollar press now. I think that and dies and a hand primer is the way to go. Add a scale and you are making good quality ammo.

 

[kdunn]

The kit will serve you well to get started. I would invest in a set of scales as well. Not that the Lee safety scale will not work, but it leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to scales in general. I got the same kit and have loaded several thousand rounds from 9mm to 30-06 with zero issues. It is a great bundle to get you started, and if you decide reloading aint your cup of tea, you can always get most of your money back. Good luck and happy reloading.

Agreed here about the scale. I'm still using the Lee scale that came with it and it leaves a lot to be desired. But since it still "works" I haven't traded in for another yet cuz I would rather spend money on reloading components. A nice digital scale would be a great improvement tho

 

[BBDartCA]

The lee dipper recipe selection for 44MAG Is good and includes numerous loads with w296/H110 which is the powder to use with this round. I believe getting a new or Used Lee Loader kit plus a spartan new scale is a wise way to start (I've never been too fond of dippers). If you want to step up your hand loading game, You can always sell the lee kit aon the bay of E or Craigs so you are really just renting it. Check gun shows for Lee a loader kits too as I've seen them go for under $10 (maker sure the kit is complete).

 

[JohnMc]

As others have said, go ahead and try the Classic Loader. Get caliper that doesn't need batteries (if you don't use it a lot, dead batteries are a pain in the a**). Look over Lost Sheep's advice. Get some safety glasses.
Start with the 44, as you described, as straight walled pistol cases are less often in need of trimming than bottleneck rifle cases, so you probably won't need to do that at first (measure to be sure, with the caliper!). Lee makes inexpensive trimming tools for common calibers, fyi.
My dad had Lee Classic Loaders in 9mm, 222, 30-06 and 12 gauge. If my brother and I wanted to shoot, we had to reload. The Lee Classic loaders allowed us to do it while watching TV. The rate was slow, maybe 20 rounds per hour. But it got the job done. Too bad they don't make the 12 gauge one anymore.
My dad handed the 30-06 on to me a few years back, along with the Lee Classic Loader for it and with some loads he'd done with it. Though I have a press (Lee) and lots of other goodies, I wouldn't hesitate to use the Lee Classic to duplicate dad's loads, as they shot cloverleafs.

 

[SVTOhio]

Well guys I went with the advice of some and against the advice of some others and ordered the lee loader. Still on the look out for some 44 cal bullets in varying weights and varieties to try out.

So far I have:
Calibers-free (brother had a spare pair
Lee loader-26$
Lb of imr4227-26$ (local store was pretty sold out of powder)
CCI magnum handgun primers-4$
Lee case lube-4$
Lee dippers-12$

So right now I have 72$ invested and I should be set up making some 44mag for around 35 cents a round.

Any other advise for me?

 

[Lost Sheep]

Well guys I went with the advice of some and against the advice of some others and ordered the lee loader. Still on the look out for some 44 cal bullets in varying weights and varieties to try out.

So far I have:
Calibers-free (brother had a spare pair
Lee loader-26$
Lb of imr4227-26$ (local store was pretty sold out of powder)
CCI magnum handgun primers-4$
Lee case lube-4$
Lee dippers-12$

So right now I have 72$ invested and I should be set up making some 44mag for around 35 cents a round.

Any other advise for me?

A scale.

It is good that you have a set of dippers, but if the load sheet supplied with the kit does not have a suitable load recipe for your bullet and powder, your situation is difficult.

Plus, your average manuals give loads by weight, not by volume.

Your next acquisition should be a scale.

And don't forget a loading block (if you load in batches). Having one or two helps keep your loading organized. The first time you knock over 15 or 20 charged cases, you will get one, so, why wait?

While you can load in batch mode or continuous mode with the Lee kit, I have found that batch mode is conducive to better quality control and marginally faster than continuous mode.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep

 

[Lost Sheep]

The lee dipper recipe selection for 44MAG Is good and includes numerous loads with w296/H110 which is the powder to use with this round. I believe getting a new or Used Lee Loader kit plus a spartan new scale is a wise way to start (I've never been too fond of dippers). If you want to step up your hand loading game, You can always sell the lee kit aon the bay of E or Craigs so you are really just renting it. Check gun shows for Lee a loader kits too as I've seen them go for under $10 (maker sure the kit is complete).

While I agree that W296 and H110 (which are identical) is a GREAT powder to use with magnum pistol cartridges, I caution against using it to learn with. That propellant's performance envelope is limited and unforgiving. It is at the top of the pressure and velocity range and delivers admirably there. However, mid-range loads are not its forte.

W296/H110 erratic performance at reduced charges is the stuff of legend and that discussion is for another thread. Suffice it to say that my recommendation for a novice is a more flexible component.

I recommend a bulkier powder for learning with, like Trail Boss. Or faster powder, like Unique.

The novice reloader/handloader is learning two things. 1) How to manipulate the tools and components, sizing, measuring, seating, crimping, etc. and 2) selecting and tuning load recipes to strict performance specifications.

Best to learn #1 first with gentler and more forgiving recipes and leave #2 for later. H110/W296 clearly falls into the second category, requiring meticulous measurement and load workup with critically exact assembly of the components (the #1 skills)

Thanks for reading.

Lost Sheep

 

[SVTOhio]

While I agree that W296 and H110 (which are identical) is a GREAT powder to use with magnum pistol cartridges, I caution against using it to learn with. That propellant's performance envelope is limited and unforgiving. It is at the top of the pressure and velocity range and delivers admirably there. However, mid-range loads are not its forte.

W296/H110 erratic performance at reduced charges is the stuff of legend and that discussion is for another thread. Suffice it to say that my recommendation for a novice is a more flexible component.

I recommend a bulkier powder for learning with, like Trail Boss. Or faster powder, like Unique.

The novice reloader/handloader is learning two things. 1) How to manipulate the tools and components, sizing, measuring, seating, crimping, etc. and 2) selecting and tuning load recipes to strict performance specifications.

Best to learn #1 first with gentler and more forgiving recipes and leave #2 for later. H110/W296 clearly falls into the second category, requiring meticulous measurement and load workup with critically exact assembly of the components (the #1 skills)

Thanks for reading.

Lost Sheep

I will be getting a scale for sure. How did I do on the powder with imr4227? Is it a safer powder to start with? I will be shooting out of a single shot handi rifle so I'm sure it can take a lot hotter loads then the average revolver if I do happen to make a measurement mistake.

 

[Lost Sheep]

I know little about IMR4227, so researched on line and read that it is principally a rifle powder, but suitable for magnum pistol cartridges as well. I also see that it is a bit more forgiving (wider performance envelope) than H110/W296, but not by much.

Here is where I went:
http://www.hodgdon.com/

Never take loading advice from casual sources, even me, without cross-checking with at least one authoritative source.

Think about what you find there. For example, compare the pressures and load weight range for IMR 4227, H110 and Trail Boss. You will be enlightened.
I wold have reported the figures, but have a lunch date.

 

[SVTOhio]

I know little about IMR4227, so researched on line and read that it is principally a rifle powder, but suitable for magnum pistol cartridges as well. I also see that it is a bit more forgiving (wider performance envelope) than H110/W296, but not by much.



Here is where I went:

http://www.hodgdon.com/



Never take loading advice from casual sources, even me, without cross-checking with at least one authoritative source.



Think about what you find there. For example, compare the pressures and load weight range for IMR 4227, H110 and Trail Boss. You will be enlightened.

I wold have reported the figures, but have a lunch date.

According to my hornady reloading manual it should suit my needs for lighter bullets.

 

[FROGO207]

Get a plastic headed mallet or dead blow hammer to use. A regular metal headed hammer (ball peen or carpenters,etc.) will ruin the loader.

I own a dozen or more Lee Loaders and while they will make accurate ammo they are sure SLOW. Have fun learning how to reload however.

 

[Lost Sheep]

According to my hornady reloading manual it should suit my needs for lighter bullets.

Good. You re on your way to becoming an expert handloader.

Remember that with slower (that includes rifle powders like IMR4227) good pullet pull (the force necessary to start the bullet out of the cartridge case mouth) is essential to buildup of the pressure necessary for a good powder burn. Quicker powders also, but with slower powders, it is especially critical.

Bullet pull depends on two things. Friction with the case neck and the crimp of the case mouth. Bullet weight also helps.

What I intend with the "think about it" suggestion is to observe the relationship between
powder charge
pressure
velocity
bullet weight
and (hardest to glean from just the loading data)
case volume UNDER the bullet (for this you need to subtract the bullet's length from the cartridge overall length (OAL or COAL).

Then throw in the variable of different powders (and their quickness) and you REALLY get into the esoterica of handloading. Most reloaders never go there, and therein lies the separations between reloaders and handloaders and load developers.

Philosophy alert: The loading tools you use do not make the difference between reloader, handloader and load developer. It's ALL YOU.
Lost Sheep

Lost Sheep

 

[Lost Sheep]

Get a plastic headed mallet or dead blow hammer to use. A regular metal headed hammer (ball peen or carpenters,etc.) will ruin the loader.

I own a dozen or more Lee Loaders and while they will make accurate ammo they are sure SLOW. Have fun learning how to reload however.

Right. I have used wood mallets, hard rubber, plastic, brass hammers and pieces of 2x4, but if you MUST use a hammer, do not let steel strike steel. At least use a wood pad between the hammer and the tool.

A piece of wood between the tool and your workbench (also known as the dining room table in some households) is very helpful in keeping the household peace.

Spread a dropcloth, too. And use eye and ear protection. You are going to hit that tool at least 5 times per cartridge. While not very loud, all that pounding makes a very sharp sound and will take a toll on your ears.

Lost Sheep

 

[SVTOhio]

Everyone has been awesomely help full. I will update this thread well I start getting components in the mail and start shooting. Thanks all

 

[BBDartCA]

I loaded a lot of 357 with imr4227 and had great results. But needed a heavy roll crimp to get consistent performance & complete powder burn (with mag primers). that's one downfall of the lee loader is you don't have crimping capability.

 

[Lost Sheep]

I loaded a lot of 357 with imr4227 and had great results. But needed a heavy roll crimp to get consistent performance & complete powder burn (with mag primers). that's one downfall of the lee loader is you don't have crimping capability.

The Lee loader has crimping capability (at least my 40-year old .357 mag and 44 Mag ones do). Just not very controllable.

Remember also that more bullet pull is from friction than the crimp.

Lost Sheep

 

[Col. Jankoski]

I had the same dilemma.....I shoot .45 long Colt which is very pricey so I started with a $30 single stage press, and it worked out so well I had a few other options sell it all on ebay and go for a mega reloader like the rock chucker.....Ultimately I could not justify the money rather I set my bench up with four lee single stage presses bought some extra casing holders for them and set them in order decapp, casing bell, bullett seat, and crimp die. It worked out so well that I went out and bought the die's for all of the rounds I shoot and the money I saved allowed me to buy a lee bottom pour lead furnace casting molds for .45/.45 LC ( they are the same .452 diameter) since a friend owns a tire store I get wheel weight lead for free ie .....free bullets! (****DISCLAIMER casting lead bullets can be very dangerous learn from an old timer and many will laugh when I say this but my doctor told me to buy a damn good respirator, I didn't listen, I got very sick wear a damn Respirator for melting wheel weights, it isn't the lead but all the crap with it the grease, dirt, tin, paper and glue on the lead stick strips etc all referred to as dross*******) I now have loaded a thousand rounds for every gun I own plus a military .50 cal box full of .45 acp so if the zombie appocolipse happens they will never get my brain! Seriously, I shoot a lot! I like the single stage press if your only reloading a few caliburs. Good luck!

 

[Col. Jankoski]

Sure you do if you buy the carbide die's they come with a crimping die that works awesome at least mine did, and I am not trying to be a wise ass, I am too new to the site, you can even buy the carbide crimp die and adjust how much crimp you get!

 

[Col. Jankoski]

The lee

I'm still looking to get into reloading. First off I'll be reloading 44mag for my single shot h&r for deer hunting. I would like to load up some lighter loads for the girlfriend to shoot as well. Should I purchase the Classic Lee loader since it has everything I will need to start? Or should I purchase the press and dies and everything else I will need for reloading and take up a considerable more money without knowing whether I will like it? I would plan to reload for my. 25-06 eventually aswell if I enjoy it. Input please.

I had the same dilemma.....I shoot .45 long Colt which is very pricey so I started with a $30 single stage press, and it worked out so well I had a few other options sell it all on ebay and go for a mega reloader like the rock chucker.....Ultimately I could not justify the money rather I set my bench up with four lee single stage presses bought some extra casing holders for them and set them in order decapp, casing bell, bullett seat, and crimp die. It worked out so well that I went out and bought the die's for all of the rounds I shoot and the money I saved allowed me to buy a lee bottom pour lead furnace casting molds for .45/.45 LC ( they are the same .452 diameter) since a friend owns a tire store I get wheel weight lead for free ie .....free bullets! (****DISCLAIMER casting lead bullets can be very dangerous learn from an old timer and many will laugh when I say this but my doctor told me to buy a damn good respirator, I didn't listen, I got very sick wear a damn Respirator for melting wheel weights, it isn't the lead but all the crap with it the grease, dirt, tin, paper and glue on the lead stick strips etc all referred to as dross*******) I now have loaded a thousand rounds for every gun I own plus a military .50 cal box full of .45 acp so if the zombie appocolipse happens they will never get my brain! Seriously, I shoot a lot! I like the single stage press if your only reloading a few caliburs. Good luck!

 

[Col. Jankoski]

I agree whole heartedly, however, you can not find unique anywhere I think Obama has every bit of Alliant Unique in the basement of the white house. I found a pretty good powder, a little hard to get load data for, but hodgdon CFE Pistol is pretty good powder. I also recomend finding a friend that reloads to go over it with you......I was lucky to have my Dad, an awesome gunsmith who owned a gun store growing up as well as a snowmobile dealership!

 

[Col. Jankoski]

Frankfort arsenal has a great digital scale for under $30 bucks and it is accurate as heck. I would also say this I eventually moved up to a mechanical powder throwing device where you set the grains and it dumps that amount. I am anal retentive as hell when I reload, so I have always turned the scale on put the primed cartridge on the scale zero it out and hand measure the powder when I got the new powder thrower I kept noticing several cartridges looked heavy on powder.......remembering how I used to do it I checked them and sure enough they had a double charge......my message, the scale can and will save you from blowing up your favorite gun and perhaps yourself! So here is what I suggest if you get a powder thrower, weigh the finish rounds get a feel for the range of weights look for one way off! Good luck and stay safe!

 

[JohnMc]

Never take loading advice from casual sources, even me, without cross-checking with at least one authoritative source.

Excellent advice.

FYI, this guy's going over the .44 mag on a Lee Loader:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSElCUwP_fw

 

[SVTOhio]

Excellent advice.



FYI, this guy's going over the .44 mag on a Lee Loader:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSElCUwP_fw

Watched this many if times already.